Aki Basho 2021 - Discussion Thread (Spoilers!)

[since_94 604]

Anyone else think Terunofuji very sportingly gave Ura a chance by releasing that arm bar he had on him right after the tachiai? Ura's arm was at a very bad angle, and they both knew it. Looked to me like Terunofuji could have used his height and mass to keep exerting pressure on it and bend it back and basically march Ura out, but knew there would have been a very real risk of a serious arm injury to Ura. So he didn't, and instead let Ura wriggle out and re-set by getting himself square to Terunofuji to avoid this from happening. Looked like it to me.

[Seiyashi 3,326]

23 minutes ago, since_94 said:

Anyone else think Terunofuji very sportingly gave Ura a chance by releasing that arm bar he had on him right after the tachiai? Ura's arm was at a very bad angle, and they both knew it. Looked to me like Terunofuji could have used his height and mass to keep exerting pressure on it and bend it back and basically march Ura out, but knew there would have been a very real risk of a serious arm injury to Ura. So he didn't, and instead let Ura wriggle out and re-set by getting himself square to Terunofuji to avoid this from happening. Looked like it to me.

Considering some of the angles Ura was at during that bout, I'm not sure avoidance of injury was predominant on Terunofuji's mind - at least, not avoidance of injury to his aite. But even so, rikishi avoiding dangerous techniques is not completely unheard of - the most recent example would have been Tamawashi refraining from kotenage a bit more noticeably after he caused damage to Takayasu's elbow a year or two ago.

[Eikokurai 3,413]

30 minutes ago, since_94 said:

Anyone else think Terunofuji very sportingly gave Ura a chance by releasing that arm bar he had on him right after the tachiai? Ura's arm was at a very bad angle, and they both knew it. Looked to me like Terunofuji could have used his height and mass to keep exerting pressure on it and bend it back and basically march Ura out, but knew there would have been a very real risk of a serious arm injury to Ura. So he didn't, and instead let Ura wriggle out and re-set by getting himself square to Terunofuji to avoid this from happening. Looked like it to me.

Interesting idea, but Terunofuji could just as reasonably have said to himself that Ura put himself in that position, so tough luck. Ura turned away to avoid the belt battle which is what led to the awkward angle.

[since_94 604]

2 minutes ago, Eikokurai said:

Interesting idea, but Terunofuji could just as reasonably have said to himself that Ura put himself in that position, so tough luck. Ura turned away to avoid the belt battle which is what led to the awkward angle.

That's partly my point though---that we're witnessing the dawn of the kinder, gentler Terunofuji. He was certainly never one to show mercy on his march up to Makuuchi the first time around, and seemed to relish playing the role of the scowling heel. But I honestly feel his injury, long tumble down through the ranks, rehabilitation, and eventual redemption made him more compassionate. It's classic hero cycle stuff, right out of Joseph Campbell's Power of myth. Anyway, he knows Ura has been through a lot of the same struggle, so there's a camaraderie and some empathy there.  Plus, now as Yokozuna, he's doubtless very aware of the need to do what's good for "the business", even if it might mean not winning at all costs. I'm not suggesting he'd ever throw a match, but he knows Ura is a star that puts punters in seats and gets them tuning in to NHK's broadcasts. He's aware there's already a whole raft of big names sitting out with injuries and COVID-related withdrawals. He has reasons to not want to hurt Ura while defeating him. I think he was confident in his ability to do so and showed some mercy today.

[Joaoiyama 277]

Kiribayama is now on my death note.

[Sue 456]

1 hour ago, since_94 said:

[Terunofuji] was certainly never one to show mercy on his march up to Makuuchi the first time around, and seemed to relish playing the role of the scowling heel.

I vividly remember shouting at the screen at him when he pulled a henka on Kotoshogiku to deny him the win he needed to get back to Ozeki for the final time. Definitely a change there.

[Tsuchinoninjin 975]

On 20/09/2021 at 04:21, Terunoshoryu said:

That was one of the best ippon I‘ve ever seen. 
 

Someone an idea why the gyoji gave the victory first to Wakatakagage?

They wanted to give NHK some time to show a lot of replays.

[Amamaniac 1,970]

2 hours ago, Seiyashi said:

Interesting hypothetical: if Hoshoryu had had his "not bowing properly" incident today in response to the henka, do you think the gyoji would have made him come back and do it again? Or would he have gotten a free pass for being huffy? 

If anything, Hoshoryu is on the gyojis' watch list.  They take tradition and proper etiquette pretty seriously.  I seriously doubt they would give Hoshoryu a free pass.  That would be like letting poor behaviour win over civil behaviour.  If you want a free pass, try puro-resu.

[Amamaniac 1,970]

I like how Isegahama called for an monoii in the Kotoeko v. Terutsuyoshi bout.  He seems to look out for his deshi wrestlers when he's on chief judge duty.  But it is surprising that he gave in and let the gyoij's call stand (he seems averse to showing any signs of favouritism).  Watching the slow motion replay, it seemed pretty clear to me that Kotoeko's right hand dropped out in the corner first.  

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fqYF75aCh7Y (6:27 mark)

Terutsuyoshi actually pulled (literally) off an amazing manoeuvre (see how he keeps his feet on the bales), but sadly he didn't get credit for it.  I completely agree with Murray Johnson, that that deserved a torinaoshi rematch, at the very least.

Edited September 21, 2021 by Amamaniac

[rhyen 1,553]

5 hours ago, Kaninoyama said:

Agreed. There are weak Chiyoshoma leap out of the way henkas, and then there are the old Harumafuji sidestep reach around and grab mawashi half-henkas.

Kiribayama has been channeling his inner-Harumafuji this basho, to good effect. 

Which Harumafuji learned from watching old Chiyonofuji videos.

[rhyen 1,553]

4 hours ago, Seiyashi said:

Shodai has the most "whatever..." tegatana of all the rikishi I've seen. Most of them at least have the hand vertical, he just sort of vaguely wafts his hand around.

I'll excuse Kiribayama the HNH too, considering he sent Hoshoryu in one nice straight line splat on the floor. As far as henkas go, that was fairly elegant.

Good to see Takakeisho holding his own in a fairly protracted oshi battle. Seems also he's mixed up his style a bit, with a bit more upright postures and more harite mixed in to disorient his opponent. Or it could just be defence against a fellow oshi practitioner, I don't know.

The musubi was long, but I also don't feel like Terunofuji was seriously troubled by the kitchen sinks - and then some - that got thrown his way. It felt almost as if Ura was trying to see how many different ways he could piss Terunofuji off. And the conclusion I think showed why Ura didn't stay submarine against Terunofuji: he didn't want to give the grip on the back of his mawashi to Terunofuji who could do a hundred and one nasty things with it.

This basho we've seen some very pretty kimarite, though. As in, not just rare stuff, but stuff that looks visually dynamic. Hoshoryu's ipponzeoi, Terunofuji's uwatenage against Ura, and at least one of Ura's and Akua's bouts each elsewhere.

The kyokai liked it so much that it is free for all to watch on YouTube.

 

 

[Yamanashi 2,824]

Though I shudder to say it, I disagree with Mr. Johnson about Takakeisho's slapping technique when facing his opponent.  I don't think he's trying to pull (that would involve bringing his hands down and then in to catch the hands).  He seems to be doing a defensive "window-wiping" maneuver to keep the opponent from grabbing him.  Takakeisho's been doing this as long as I've been watching his bouts.

[rhyen 1,553]

As show in the video above, did anyone notice Ura trying to leverage both hands to hang onto the mawashi once he got flipped? Like watching the competitors for the mountain climbing event at the Olympics. 

[Yamanashi 2,824]

43 minutes ago, rhyen said:

As show in the video above, did anyone notice Ura trying to leverage both hands to hang onto the mawashi once he got flipped? Like watching the competitors for the mountain climbing event at the Olympics. 

Reminded me of every horror flick of the last twenty-five years:

Woman throws monster off speedboat, breathes a sigh of relief, monster climbs back of boat.

Bridge over chasm crumbles, Balrog falls into abyss, Gandalf sighs, glowing whip from falling Balrog catches Gandalf about the knees.

Terunofuji finally gets the leverage, throws the -nage, turns to go back to his side, looks down, sees grimacing Pink Mawashi Monster still hanging on.

[Benevolance 2,253]

I cannot wait for the Onosho vs Myogiru playoff for the yusho on Day 15. 

[hakutorizakura 427]

Massive gambarizing from Ura. Was he trying to pull off that Asashoryu bridge move?

Next time he got thrown I'd expect he'll somersault and land on both feet for another round of gambarizing.

Gotta love this guy.

[Sue 456]

4 minutes ago, hakutorizakura said:

Massive gambarizing from Ura. Was he trying to pull off that Asashoryu bridge move?

Next time he got thrown I'd expect he'll somersault and land on both feet for another round of gambarizing.

Gotta love this guy.

[Yaochozuna 123]

3 hours ago, Yamanashi said:

Reminded me of every horror flick of the last twenty-five years:

Woman throws monster off speedboat, breathes a sigh of relief, monster climbs back of boat.

Bridge over chasm crumbles, Balrog falls into abyss, Gandalf sighs, glowing whip from falling Balrog catches Gandalf about the knees.

Terunofuji finally gets the leverage, throws the -nage, turns to go back to his side, looks down, sees grimacing Pink Mawashi Monster still hanging on.

A scene directly from Evil Dead

[Thorbjarn 191]

I don't judge people because of their tastes but if you didn't enjoy Ura vs Terunofuji, I will look at you funny. That was incredible. 

I also was very invested in Chiyonokuni vs Hidenoumi. 

Was it just me or did Takakeisho's pushing look less unique and more traditional, so to speak? I didn't seem like the usual tsuppari wave... 

[Amamaniac 1,970]

3 hours ago, Asojima said:

Unfortunately, it was the top of his foot.  Game over.

Interesting observation.  I wonder exactly what definition of "top of the foot" the NSK uses.  If the side edge of the foot constitutes part of the top of the foot, then you are probably right.

I've just watched the full NHK coverage of that bout, and watching the slow motion replay from another angle, it is clear that Terutsuyoshi had both feet down when both of Kotoeko's feet left the surface in his fall.  I still feel Terutsuyoshi won that bout...  But I feel even stronger that a torinaoshi rematch was called for.

[Amamaniac 1,970]

For anyone curious to know how long Terunofuji's bout against Ura lasted: 1 min 32.3 sec.  

Some bouts are brief encounters.  That was a real battle.  Opponents are starting to realise that they can prolong things against Terunofuji if they keep the Yokozuna off their mawashi (and if they avoid his back up kime arm lock attack).

[Katooshu 2,338]

Maybe Kiribayama was just paying Hosh back for this

 

[Seiyashi 3,326]

15 minutes ago, Amamaniac said:

For anyone curious to know how long Terunofuji's bout against Ura lasted: 1 min 32.3 sec.  

Some bouts are brief encounters.  That was a real battle.  Opponents are starting to realise that they can prolong things against Terunofuji if they keep the Yokozuna off their mawashi (and if they avoid his back up kime arm lock attack).

There are long bouts and then there are long bouts, though. This felt way longer than 1min32s, in comparison to a Takayasu/Ichinojo-style borefest where it's about tiring out the opponent. We really got our (not) money's worth out of the musubi!

Regarding defending the mawashi, the question is to what end, though. You can avoid an immediate loss, but if you still can't find a way to actually beat him, it's just delaying the inevitable.

[Amamaniac 1,970]

1 minute ago, Seiyashi said:

Regarding defending the mawashi, the question is to what end, though. You can avoid an immediate loss, but if you still can't find a way to actually beat him, it's just delaying the inevitable.

Very true.

I suppose wrestlers have noticed that Terunofuji is a one- (or two-) trick pony [unlike Hakuho].  Terunofuji appears to struggle without his left-hand belt grip.  As Asojima just posted, the longer you stay toe-to-toe with Terunofuji, the better the odds are of Terunofuji making a mistake.

The bout against Ura today was quite enlightening.  Ura tried a few ashitori attacks, which Terunofuji managed to fend off – almost as though he expected those attacks.  However, after a while, I started to think that Terunofuji was resorting to Ichinojo tactics: standing there like an immoveable object and letting the opponent wear himself out.  But what makes Terunofuji a Yokozuna (even with two busted knees) is his awesome strength and his technical ability.  Ichinojo lacks those elements. (Excuse the tangent.)

[Eikokurai 3,413]

3 hours ago, Katooshu said:

Maybe Kiribayama was just paying Hosh back for this

 

Ha! Fair enough then.

I wonder if this is what I was remembering. I knew there’d been a henka in a previous bout but thought it was Kiribayama then too.

Edited September 21, 2021 by Eikokurai