Kaminariyuki

Bright colored mawashi, Ura among them...

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9 hours ago, Yamanashi said:

Ah, sorry, trying to keep two topics in my head at one time.  Hoshitango is a brilliant shikona.  But that wrestling outfit is still the bomb.

Imachi sounds Japanese; is he a hafu?

He is a full-fledged Argentinian Jew. Imachi may mean something in Spanish.

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19 minutes ago, Kintamayama said:

He is a full-fledged Argentinian Jew. Imachi may mean something in Spanish.

I exhausted myself trying to find any reference to Imachi in Argentina that wasn't Hoshitango.  On the other hand, there are lots of people in Japan with the surname Imachi.  There are two locales named Imachi in Japan: one is a neighborhood in Nagano, the other a hamlet near Sendai.  So, the mystery deepens!

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1 hour ago, Kintamayama said:

He is a full-fledged Argentinian Jew. Imachi may mean something in Spanish.

Not that I know, in Spain at least. But maybe in Argentina means something

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2 hours ago, Yamanashi said:

I exhausted myself trying to find any reference to Imachi in Argentina that wasn't Hoshitango.  On the other hand, there are lots of people in Japan with the surname Imachi.  There are two locales named Imachi in Japan: one is a neighborhood in Nagano, the other a hamlet near Sendai.  So, the mystery deepens!

Sometimes the Oyakata gives you a surname, so I guess that's the case. 

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Posted (edited)
7 hours ago, Yamanashi said:

I exhausted myself trying to find any reference to Imachi in Argentina that wasn't Hoshitango.  On the other hand, there are lots of people in Japan with the surname Imachi.  There are two locales named Imachi in Japan: one is a neighborhood in Nagano, the other a hamlet near Sendai.  So, the mystery deepens!

I did quite a thorough search on the Internet, also, and I think I may have solved the mystery of the Imachi name.  In the wikipedia citations, there was a translation from a French magazine article about Hoshitango Imachi's danpatsu-shiki.  The article stated that he was born IMACH MARCELLO SALOMON.  Note:  It read Imach, NOT Imachi.  I began to wonder if perhaps Imach was his actual name and we were thrown off by Imachi because it's Japanese (a coincidence).

Then I decided to research the name Imach and found some VERY interesting information!  Imach is a name that is most prevalent in Poland, where it also has the highest density.  There are 222 people in Poland with the name Imach.  Besides Poland, it's found in 13 countries.  The name is also common in Germany, where 9% live,  and in ARGENTINA, where 8% live!!!  Besides the 222 people in Poland with the name Imach, there are 27 in Germany and 25 in Argentina.  After that, the numbers drop off drastically to 9 in the US and then down further.  Most of the 14 countries have only one person with the name Imach.  The name is mainly found in Europe where 85% of the Imachs live.  If my notes are correct, 74% of those live in Eastern Europe and of those, 74% live in West Slavic Europe.

My theory is that his name is actually Imach and his family were Polish or German Jews who emigrated to Argentina.  Argentina has 25 people named Imach, the third highest number in the world.  There is only one other country in South America that has anyone with that name.  That country is Brazil with only one person named Imach.  I believe his Oyakata gave him his shikona (as is customary), and added an "i" to Imach and had him use that as part of his shikona.  I think either wikipedia, or another early source, added the "i" to his given name by mistake.  Then all the other publications duplicated the error and it snowballed.  My strategy was to look for a very old article with biographical information that I hoped would differ from what was in wikipedia, et al.

Here are the links.  The first one is the French magazine article from Feb 2004.  The second link has detailed information about the name Imach and statistics.  http://www.lemondedusumo.com/english/MDS2_hoshitango.php?mag=mds&num=2

https://forebears.io/surnames/imach

Edited by sumojoann
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1 hour ago, sumojoann said:

I did quite a thorough search on the Internet, also, and I think I may have solved the mystery of the Imachi name.  In the wikipedia citations, there was a translation from a French magazine article about Hoshitango Imachi's danpatsu-shiki.  The article stated that he was born IMACH MARCELLO SALOMON.  Note:  It read Imach, NOT Imachi.  I began to wonder if perhaps Imach was his actual name and we were thrown off by Imachi because it's Japanese (a coincidence).

Then I decided to research the name Imach and found some VERY interesting information!  Imach is a name that is most prevalent in Poland, where it also has the highest density.  There are 222 people in Poland with the name Imach.  Besides Poland, it's found in 13 countries.  The name is also common in Germany, where 9% live,  and in ARGENTINA, where 8% live!!!  Besides the 222 people in Poland with the name Imach, there are 27 in Germany and 25 in Argentina.  After that, the numbers drop off drastically to 9 in the US and then down further.  Most of the 14 countries have only one person with the name Imach.  The name is mainly found in Europe where 85% of the Imachs live.  If my notes are correct, 74% of those live in Eastern Europe and of those, 74% live in West Slavic Europe.

My theory is that his first name actually is Imach and his family were Polish or German Jews who emigrated to Argentina.  Argentina has 25 people named Imach, the third highest number in the world.  There is only one other country in South America that has anyone with that name.  That country is Brazil with only one person named Imach.  I believe his Oyakata gave him his shikona (as is customary), and added an "i" to Imach and had him use that as part of his shikona.  I think either wikipedia, or another early source, added the "i" to his given name by mistake.  Then all the other publications duplicated the error and it snowballed.  My strategy was to look for a very old article with biographical information that I hoped would differ from what was in wikipedia, et al.

Here are the links.  The first one is the French magazine article from Feb 2004.  The second link has detailed information about the name Imach and statistics.  http://www.lemondedusumo.com/english/MDS2_hoshitango.php?mag=mds&num=2

https://forebears.io/surnames/imach

By George, I think you've got it!

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Posted (edited)

I don't think anyone added the i to Imach per se. It's simple Japanese. You can't spell Imach in Japanese, as no letter gets a shwa other than N in Japanese. However you do it, it becomes imachi as there is no letter ch, only chi. Just like my family name is written Dechine in Japanese, as there is no letter for di either. 

motango.jpg

 

Edited by Kintamayama
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18 hours ago, Kaminariyuki said:

 

You like those better than Shishi or Oki?

Aran was Alan, which was just Alan pronounced with a Japanese accent. As a foreigner watching sumo, I thought it was hilarious and sly that he was able to use his name as his shikona. 

From the east, the Almighty Noble Mountain! And on the west, it's Alan! 

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19 minutes ago, Benevolance said:

Aran was Alan, which was just Alan pronounced with a Japanese accent. As a foreigner watching sumo, I thought it was hilarious and sly that he was able to use his name as his shikona. 

From the east, the Almighty Noble Mountain! And on the west, it's Alan! 

And: "On the right Masutoo (Attila Toth), on the left Michael"

https://www.dailymotion.com/video/x7ajlnl

 

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Right, we pondered the Imach/Imachi thing a few years ago in this here thread, too:

 

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On 19/07/2021 at 17:30, Mightyduck said:

I like it when rikishi with a colour in their shikona wear that colour mawashi.

I think midorifuji's bad Basho might have been in part due to his red mawashi, there's an old saying red and green must never be seen.

Is there a rule that mawashi must be monochrome? 

The rule is actually that mawashi have to be either black or dark purple - it just isn't enforced. I don't think any rikishi would dare push their luck by having more than one colour in their mawashi! 

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11 hours ago, Kintamayama said:

Much better- Argentinian with a shikona that translates as Star Tango? Can't beat that. Maybe Hoshiandesu comes close. Shishi (sounds dumb to me, maybe because it means "sixth" in Hebrew..) and Oki just sound funny. Hoshitango is clever.

Ha, that's great on Hoshitango! And, I have no idea where Shishi got his shikona. It sounds like "thank you" in Chinese to me. 

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55 minutes ago, Kaminariyuki said:

... And, I have no idea where Shishi got his shikona. It sounds like "thank you" in Chinese to me. 

The kanji for Shishi could be read as a great pride of lions.  Sounds klutzy, but has an acceptable meaning.

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1 hour ago, Kaminariyuki said:

Ha, that's great on Hoshitango! And, I have no idea where Shishi got his shikona. It sounds like "thank you" in Chinese to me. 

Whoever's been speaking Chinese around you has a terrible accent...

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Posted (edited)
6 minutes ago, Seiyashi said:

Whoever's been speaking Chinese around you has a terrible accent...

I suppose I could have been more precise. It reminds me of some foreign speakers of Chinese saying thank you, one of them with a travel program on television.

Edited by Kaminariyuki

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12 minutes ago, Kaminariyuki said:

I suppose I could have been more precise. It reminds me of some foreign speakers of Chinese saying thank you, one of them with a travel program on television.

A yup, sounds about right.

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6 hours ago, Kintamayama said:

I don't think anyone added the i to Imach per se. It's simple Japanese. You can't spell Imach in Japanese, as no letter gets a shwa other than N in Japanese. However you do it, it becomes imachi as there is no letter ch, only chi. Just like my family name is written Dechine in Japanese, as there is no letter for di either. 

motango.jpg

 

How can we get Hoshitango Imachi's real name corrected on the DB?  Right now, it shows his real name as:  SALOMON Imachi Marcelo.  It should read as:  IMACH Marcelo Salomon.  (Surname first in caps, followed by first name & middle name both in lowercase).

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58 minutes ago, sumojoann said:

How can we get Hoshitango Imachi's real name corrected on the DB?  Right now, it shows his real name as:  SALOMON Imachi Marcelo.  It should read as:  IMACH Marcelo Salomon.  (Surname first in caps, followed by first name & middle name both in lowercase).

We can ask the wizard to fix it.

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3 minutes ago, Kintamayama said:

We can ask the wizard to fix it.

Who is the wizard??

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Just now, sumojoann said:

Who is the wizard??

The person who created the database. I shall ask him very nicely.

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But first he must travel to the end of the Yellow Brick Paywall. And along the way, he shall meet three companions, one who desires Fighting Spirit, one who desires Outstanding Performance, and one who desires better Technique! And though the YDC will try to stop him, in the end Kintamayama will reach the Emerald Database and present the Wizard with his request. But the Wizard only agrees if Kintamayama fetches the Wizard Hakuho's latest controversy to quell his interbasho boredom. And so...

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5 hours ago, Benevolance said:

But first he must travel to the end of the Yellow Brick Paywall. And along the way, he shall meet three companions, one who desires Fighting Spirit, one who desires Outstanding Performance, and one who desires better Technique! And though the YDC will try to stop him, in the end Kintamayama will reach the Emerald Database and present the Wizard with his request. But the Wizard only agrees if Kintamayama fetches the Wizard Hakuho's latest controversy to quell his interbasho boredom. And so...

So, if Dorothy clicks her heels together to get her wish granted, what does Kintamayama cl-    er, never mind.

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I love these between-basho threads. I learn much.

But is it okay if I return to the subject for a moment?

16 hours ago, ryafuji said:

I don't think any rikishi would dare push their luck by having more than one colour in their mawashi! 

Not overtly two-tone, no, but I know I'm not imagining having sometimes seen a very narrow silver- or gold-coloured strip at the knotted end of the mawashi. 

Is that a manufacturer's mark?

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