The English commentators- views

[Asashosakari 16,827]

9 hours ago, dada78641 said:

I like the fact that the English commentators use English and Japanese terms together, like "He gets the oshidashi pushout victory." It's a funny way to be accessible and yet teach viewers what the proper terminology is.

Although that's exactly something that tends to annoy longer-time fans when it gets overused. Hiro's insistence on referring to the third guy on the dohyo as the "gyoji-referee" every single time was already many people's bugbear over a decade ago; thankfully that's one of the things he has tuned down over the years.

My own opinion of the four commentators roughly mirrors Seiyashi's:

13 hours ago, Seiyashi said:

I think the main problem for me is maybe one of personality. I'm not a hot-blooded type, so I'm not a big fan of very pulse-pumping colour commentary; for that reason I prefer Ross and Murray's calmer voiceovers to Raja and Hiro's. Hiro I feel feels like he needs to fill up all of his airtime, which results in a fair amount of odd filler from his English phrasing. Raja makes up for it by sprinkling in a number of anecdotes when he gets put in a mawashi/heya - I recall him recounting an anecdote of facing Tamawashi's thrusts during one of his matches.

Hiro and to a lesser degree Raja seem to me to have been hit a lot harder by the absence of co-commentators than were Murray and Ross, who manage to fill the extra airtime a lot more effortlessly with their more measured style.

All things considered, I do see Hiro and Raja as serviceable commentators, perhaps moreso for newer fans than the old timers among us, but I don't really have the desire to listen to them more than needed. In practical terms that means when I'm watching Kinta's digests, I tend to fast-forward through replays on the days they're on unless a particular bout featured something I want to watch again on its own merits, while I'll listen through pretty much all replays on the days that Murray and Ross are featured.

Edited June 11, 2021 by Asashosakari

[Kaioshoryu 61]

I think they are all great. Guess I'm easy to please. 

[yorikiried by fate 1,768]

After seeing the first EC game this evening, I was reminded - once again - that all sumo presenters - if I like them more or less - are so much better than any football comentary here on German TV. It really is mindbogglingly bad. It's made to serve cliche and non-sights to idiots and to reproduce meaningless dribble in the brains of the listeners, where it gradually solidifies into expectations for the next broadcast, thus creating a justification for its own existence. Not unlike creating a desease for a cure that no-one ever needed. In effect these guy get not small money for correctly relating names and numbers, reading color info from cheat sheets and keeping up the - admittedly slightly hard - ehm/aah/oehm-avoidance training.

Sorry for waaaay OT, but I needed to get this parasite out.

 

Go Ross!

[Katooshu 2,378]

Of the English-speaking commentators, I like Murray the most; has a classy voice, doesn't talk too much, or really say anything odd or overly repetitive. I don't mind Ross either, but Hiro and Raja have voices that I find a bit grating and out of place with the action.

My favourite commentary of all though is pretty much any excitable Japanese man. I can understand nothing of that other than the passion 

Similarly, there is one senior gyoji who has a particularly loud and enthusiastic voice, and it makes the matches seem extra lively. He used to do a lot of Kotoshogiku matches, and it synched perfectly with the Geek's frantic belly bumps.

Edited June 12, 2021 by Katooshu

[Marcus33 10]

I do enjoy the commentators, and I understand that they have to allow for new fans, but do they have to assume that new fans will arrive not only every match, but multiple times within the match, so that the most basic of terms have to be explained over and over and over? Give the new fans some credit and assume that explaining the terms once per day will be enough. All that time repeating themselves could be spent sharing their insight and anecdotes.

Edited June 12, 2021 by Marcus33

[SumoLyubo 4]

16 minutes ago, Marcus33 said:

I do enjoy the commentators, and I understand that they have to allow for new fans, but do they have to assume that new fans will arrive not only every basho, but multiple times within the basho, so that the most basic of terms have to be explained over and over and over? Give the new fans some credit and assume that explaining the terms once per basho will be enough. All that time repeating themselves could be spent sharing their insight and anecdotes.

I actually wondered for a long time if they had an explicit policy that they must define each term a certain number of times per day or per tournament. Not that I minded -- it worked to get me hooked on sumo.

[Kaninoyama 1,279]

If my long years of Japanese study have provided me nothing else of value (they have), enabling me to not have to suffer through watching sumo with the English commentary has made it all worthwhile. 

[Asojima 2,835]

18 minutes ago, Kaninoyama said:

If my long years of Japanese study have provided me nothing else of value (they have), enabling me to not have to suffer through watching sumo with the English commentary has made it all worthwhile. 

My partial deafness allows me to watch soundless sumo or with only enough volume to pick up the gyoji and crowd alerts that a match is starting.  There are still some blessings in life.

[dada78641 853]

11 hours ago, Asashosakari said:

Although that's exactly something that tends to annoy longer-time fans when it gets overused. Hiro's insistence on referring to the third guy on the dohyo as the "gyoji-referee" every single time was already many people's bugbear over a decade ago; thankfully that's one of the things he has tuned down over the years.

Yeah, I think you're right and this is something that might start annoying me as well if I listened to it a lot. It's hard to tread the line in such a way that your commentary is accessible to newcomers but not overly verbose to more experienced viewers. In some cases like "gyoji-referee" (and probably also for the most common kimarite) you can probably just omit the trick because it should be pretty obvious what it is anyway just by paying attention.

[Yaochozuna 123]

I, for my part, don't like the English commentary and would prefer Japanese (which I don't understand but listen to properly :-) On the other hand I find Natto Sumo's video effects distracting and Moti's simple design with an occasional joke much better. So, when watching sumo, I just turn the sound off and am fine.

[Gernobono 394]

for me, kintamayama is absolutely right

to add, i usually think i know as much about sumo as the commentators (guess this is not true irl) and therefore i ike to hear the japanes voices while watching....as i sometime watch while working it is important to me, to hear the gyoji to call for the bout ie...

[Churaumi 682]

I prefer Japanese commentary, but I am at the phase of learning the language where it helps to have familiar words mixed in with new stuff to help my ears pick it up.

Murray is the best. The rest are fine, too. Raja and Hiro need to learn some new idioms, though.

[Benihana 1,718]

1 hour ago, Churaumi said:

Murray is the best. The rest are fine, too. Raja and Hiro need to learn some new idioms, though.

And that's all she wrote.

I only can subscribe that. Knowledge, voice, fine humor, it's hard to beat Murray.

[sumojoann 1,099]

When I started watching the live broadcasts on TV Japan back in 2013, I was not able to watch the English broadcast, only the Japanese.  (It might have had something to do with our TV at the time being analog, not sure.  Even now, with a digital setup, I don't know how to access the English broadcast).  So all these past 8 years, I have only watched the live Japanese broadcast.  The only time I've listened to the English broadcast is when I've watched some sumo videos on Youtube.  I must say from the little I have heard, I much prefer the Japanese.  Even though I miss out on the anecdotes and insider information, I definitely don't miss the horrendous mispronunciation of the rikishi's names.  It's like fingernails on a chalkboard to hear "Tacky-yassue", "Kaggy-yacky" among others.  Why can't the announcers get something so basic as their names pronounced correctly??  And who wants to hear, "Close, but no cigar"?  Even though I can't understand much of what is being said on the Japanese broadcast, I have picked up all the sumo terminology in addition to being able to piece together some of what the rikishi are saying during their interviews.  (A lot of it is what I call "Basic Dialogue Sentences".  They ALL say, without exception, "Gambarimasu!").  Hearing the Japanese makes me feel like I'm actually at the basho.  It's not jarring.  It's also great to see guest commentators like Araiso Oyakata (Kisenosato), Kakuryu, Kotooshu, Homasho, even Goeido, in addition to the regulars.  Sometimes, there are too many announcers -- 2 in the booth, one in what looks like a "closet" and one on the floor among the spectators.

My favorite "singing" Yobidashi is Shigeo.  He has the voice of a male angel.  He comes on at about 5:08 PM Japan Time (just after the Shimpan are changed at 5:00 PM Japan Time).  I think he sings for the bouts that Gyoji Kimura Konosuke officiates.  Shigeo is one of the great pleasures of watching the live broadcast (except when he's drowned out by the announcers babbling!).

All this discussion is making me really antsy for the Nagoya Basho to start!

[Churaumi 682]

1 hour ago, sumojoann said:

My favorite "singing" Yobidashi is Shigeo.  He has the voice of a male angel.  He comes on at about 5:08 PM Japan Time (just after the Shimpan are changed at 5:00 PM Japan Time).  I think he sings for the bouts that Gyoji Kimura Konosuke officiates.  Shigeo is one of the great pleasures of watching the live broadcast (except when he's drowned out by the announcers babbling!).

All this discussion is making me really antsy for the Nagoya Basho to start!

Give me Kunio. I think he's the best in voice, approach, posture, and diction. I always find it amusing that he quickly walks up, does an absolutely beautiful calling, then folds up his fan and just kind of schlubs off to get his broom.

Edited June 14, 2021 by Churaumi

[sumojoann 1,099]

6 hours ago, Churaumi said:

Give me Kunio. I think he's the best in voice, approach, posture, and diction. I always find it amusing that he quickly walks up, does an absolutely beautiful calling, then folds up his fan and just kind of schlubs off to get his broom.

Kunio is very good, great vibrato and I like how he sustains the notes.  However, Shigeo has got him beat IMO.  I could listen to Shigeo all day.  I daydream about hearing him sing something other than the rikishi introduction ditty.  I can't find any Youtube videos of Shigeo but here's one of Kunio I found just for you. 

 

[sumojoann 1,099]

Click on the last image on the right THREE TIMES to enlarge the photos of Yobidashi Kunio.

Edited June 15, 2021 by sumojoann

[sumojoann 1,099]

Here is Yobidashi Shigeo.  He is now 55 years old.  Click THREE TIMES on the last image on the right to enlarge the photos. 

Edited June 15, 2021 by sumojoann

[Jakusotsu 4,884]

Stay on topic, please.

[Barutokai 32]

What I like about Hiro Morita is, that he totally loves Sumo, and you hear that.

And I like the voices of all four more than some of the Gyojis.

[ryafuji 758]

I've never watched a full live sumo broadcast, if I did I would want the English commentary, and prefer Murray's style to the others. But for highlights I prefer the Japanese commentaries, even though I only understand a few phrases, as it adds to the atmosphere for me. 

[just_some_guy 190]

On 14/06/2021 at 18:52, Churaumi said:

Give me Kunio. I think he's the best in voice, approach, posture, and diction. I always find it amusing that he quickly walks up, does an absolutely beautiful calling, then folds up his fan and just kind of schlubs off to get his broom.

Not knowing his name I've called him Phil. I love how he always looks vaguely annoyed at having to do such a mundane task despite his obvious talent.

 

BACK ON TOPIC THOUGH,

I don't speak any Japanese other than the sumo terms I've picked up but I always prefer the Japanese commentary. I can pick out the commentator (one of whom my daughter informed me sounds like Stitch from the Disney movie and now I can't un-hear it) shouting out whatever kimarite is being attempted and what kimarite ends up succeeding and honestly that's all I need. I suppose if it was my first week of sumo viewing I'd like the beginner-level explanations but after one or two basho I'd be done with it. I don't need to be told what I'm seeing and I don't recall them ever offering any profound insights.

Edited June 17, 2021 by just_some_guy
mild typo

[Yamanashi 2,927]

Many of the non-Japanese speakers are dissing the English commentators as being too pedantic [look it up] or clichéd, and they watch the basho with the Japanese commentary on.  But that begs the question: are the Japanese commentators any better?  So, Japanese-understanders, are the NHK Japanese commentator any better? And, are there any of them that are much better than the others, in your opinion?

[rhyen 1,584]

58 minutes ago, Yamanashi said:

Many of the non-Japanese speakers are dissing the English commentators as being too pedantic [look it up] or clichéd, and they watch the basho with the Japanese commentary on.  But that begs the question: are the Japanese commentators any better?  So, Japanese-understanders, are the NHK Japanese commentator any better? And, are there any of them that are much better than the others, in your opinion?

The Japanese sides have 3 commentators, usually NHK + Kitanofuji/oyakata of the day (typically ex-Yokozuna/Ozeki/management) in the booth + popular rikishi/impending retirees somewhere else. 
 

we usually tune in for Kitanofuji’s zingers more then anything else. 
 

even when he is not on, the synergy between the other oyakatas is much more fun, especially among recent retirees. Looking forward to Hakuho + Yoshikaze/Toyonoshima/Aminishiki. 

Edited June 17, 2021 by rhyen

[Seiyashi 3,399]

1 hour ago, Yamanashi said:

Many of the non-Japanese speakers are dissing the English commentators as being too pedantic [look it up] or clichéd, and they watch the basho with the Japanese commentary on.  But that begs the question: are the Japanese commentators any better?  So, Japanese-understanders, are the NHK Japanese commentator any better? And, are there any of them that are much better than the others, in your opinion?

One thing that the English side definitely cannot match through no fault of their own - because the Japanese commentators have a wider team (usually at least 3 people - NHK booth + oyakata + black box) and include oyakata, they seem to be able to arrange for relevant oyakata to be present during specials like intai announcements, which brings a much more personal touch to the proceedings. One of the most recent examples was Kakuryu's retirement, where Tatsutagawa-oyakata (ex-Homasho) was the mukojomen commentator for the day when the intai recap was shown, including the yusho parade where Homasho was bearing the flag for Kakuryu.

The best that the English side can do is to give a translation after the fact - and they usually do do so - but it's not usually in sync or in time with the retrospective and usually gets truncated because of the delay.

Otherwise, the fact that there are more people also means the burden doesn't fall on one person alone to fill airtime, which the English commentators do to varying degrees of effectiveness. Then of course there's Kitanofuji + Mainoumi which might as well be a chat show on its own. That said, some of the oyakata can really be dead wood. By and large it feels like it's gotten better over the very short time I've been following the Japanese broadcast, but my listening comprehension is bad enough that I can't really tell.

Abema is a whole different kettle of fish altogether. They benefit from generally better visuals and having freakin' Wakanohana. Back when they were still allowed to do the instant action replays with the sumo reenactor, that was a massive draw away from NHK's feed because it allowed a chump like me to actually see what Wakanohana was saying.

P.S. - is the mukojomen commentator the one usually in the black box, or is that actually a fourth commentator on the Japanese broadcast team?

Edited June 17, 2021 by Seiyashi