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Quote from the article: "Takakeisho is a grafter, so I expect him to continue getting better and stronger."

Does anyone know what this means?

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24 minutes ago, Yamanashi said:

Quote from the article: "Takakeisho is a grafter, so I expect him to continue getting better and stronger."

Does anyone know what this means?

"Graft" is one of those words that has pretty much opposite meanings in British and American english:

US: "make money by shady or dishonest means."

UK: "work hard."

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25 minutes ago, Reonito said:

"Graft" is one of those words that has pretty much opposite meanings in British and American english:

US: "make money by shady or dishonest means."

UK: "work hard."

You are thinking of "grift" for the US, totally different word.  

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@Unkonoyama, @Reonito, thanks for the discussion!  I only know two meanings for "graft", 1) attach a new shoot to another plant; 2) a politician accepting money for favors.  Neither of them seems plausible.  Is this an example of Hiro's "unique" use of English terms, as discussed in a recent thread?

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I think he's going with the British "hard worker" meaning.

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Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, Reonito said:

I think he's going with the British "hard worker" meaning.

Yes, I agree.  We in America don't use the word "grafter" except for the referring to "graft", which is synonymous with politicians.  The Cambridge dictionary says it's UK informal, and means not only a hard worker but someone who keeps going, always working hard but is not a superstar.  https://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/english/grafter

Years ago there was a movie called "The Grifters".  I never saw it but I believe the characters were a man & a woman who were both scheming and shady.  I don't recall if it was a British or American production.

Another website with more examples of the usage of "grafter".  https://www.lexico.com/definition/grafter

Edited by sumojoann
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39 minutes ago, sumojoann said:

Years ago there was a movie called "The Grifters".  I never saw it but I believe the characters were a man & a woman who were both scheming and shady.  I don't recall if it was a British or American production.

American film (indeed, with part of the drama centering on short cons vs long cons), also an adaptation of a novel. I very much enjoyed it.

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In British English it has both meanings. Context will you tell which is meant. “MP investigated for graft” does not mean a politician is under suspicion for doing his job well. 

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"Grafter" is such a weird word to use, even though I understand he's going for the UK meaning. But that's OK, I like that Hiro's use of language has a certain flair for the dramatic, both in articles and when he's commentating. He also has the exact same writing quirk I do, which is to use two adjectives where one will do, e.g.: "The wrestlers were happy and appreciative to compete in front of fans once again."

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5 hours ago, dada78641 said:

"Grafter" is such a weird word to use, even though I understand he's going for the UK meaning. But that's OK, I like that Hiro's use of language has a certain flair for the dramatic, both in articles and when he's commentating. He also has the exact same writing quirk I do, which is to use two adjectives where one will do, e.g.: "The wrestlers were happy and appreciative to compete in front of fans once again."

He went north and south to find that word.

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12 hours ago, Eikokurai said:

In British English it has both meanings. Context will you tell which is meant. “MP investigated for graft” does not mean a politician is under suspicion for doing his job well. 

I think noone would suspect a politicion of doing his job well, anywhere, anytime

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Posted (edited)
36 minutes ago, maorencze said:

I think noone would suspect a politicion of doing his job well, anywhere, anytime

There are some places in the world where politicians would get a bit more credit than they're usually due as a general global class. Mostly in Oceania and bits of SEA. Of course, that begs the tautological question of whether some of them qualify as politicians more than administrators, but that's a different can of worms altogether.

Edited by Seiyashi

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On 29/05/2021 at 01:39, Yamanashi said:

Quote from the article: "Takakeisho is a grafter, so I expect him to continue getting better and stronger."

Does anyone know what this means?

In the UK it is a very common term in sports commentary, and also in workplaces to describe a hardworking team member, someone who gets through a high workload without complaint.

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To give Hiro his credit, he probably has described Takakeisho well, he probably has had to graft to get to ozeki given he doesn't have the genetic gifts of some other rikishi. 

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On 29/05/2021 at 23:19, Tsuchinoninjin said:

He went north and south to find that word.

Indonesian also have this “north and south” term too, it is “ngalor ngidul”.
It originates from Javanese language of “Lor” (means north) and “Kidul” (means south)

Ah, language…

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17 hours ago, Mightyduck said:
On 28/05/2021 at 17:39, Yamanashi said:

Quote from the article: "Takakeisho is a grafter, so I expect him to continue getting better and stronger."

Does anyone know what this means?

In the UK it is a very common term in sports commentary, and also in workplaces to describe a hardworking team member, someone who gets through a high workload without complaint.

Further to this, it's often something coaches, players and even teams' PR will put out to show fans that the players are putting in the hard work on the training ground (this makes it very analogous to the Takakeisho example). So I think it's harsh as a comment on his English... if you follow the premier league or rugby, it's a term you'd hear fairly often especially from an English coach or player (ie. it's not a phrase you probably hear from Pep Guardiola), and even moreso when a team needs to fight through a tough moment or when a player has reached a wall in their development they need to go through.

In the media: https://www.theguardian.com/football/blog/2012/sep/08/england-james-milner-moldova

In a post from a team:

From a rugby player (about a minute in):

 

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Yeah, I don't get the criticism, playful as it may be. I don't see anything strange about what Hiro said and in fact I often see people questioning his turns of phrase when to me they sound just fine. That may be because I'm used to speakers of English as a second language? I don't know, but other than his accent and intonation being a bit off, I don't find his English particularly odd. It could also just be that some of our American members aren't as familiar with other dialects of English as the world is with American English, thanks to the impact of US culture, esp Hollywood. :)

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Two peoples separated by a common language, to paraphrase some British grafter. And, as for his use of fabricated language, if it's good enough for Shakespeare, it's good enough for Hiro, IMO. Of course, I do the same thing regularly. If you're communicating, it's working.

Concerning his article, I think most of his analysis is pretty much spot on.

Oh, did I just say that?

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On 29/05/2021 at 07:10, Eikokurai said:

In British English it has both meanings. Context will you tell which is meant. “MP investigated for graft” does not mean a politician is under suspicion for doing his job well. 

I don't think I've ever seen/heard it used in this way in the UK. If anyone was to say that an MP was being investigated for graft I think almost everyone in the UK would find that a very strange thing to be investigated for or, if they knew the US sense, assume the speaker was foreign and therefore to be pitied rather than scorned :)

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Posted (edited)
7 hours ago, nagora said:

I don't think I've ever seen/heard it used in this way in the UK. If anyone was to say that an MP was being investigated for graft I think almost everyone in the UK would find that a very strange thing to be investigated for or, if they knew the US sense, assume the speaker was foreign and therefore to be pitied rather than scorned :)

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/africa/7003165.stm

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-latin-america-35592857.amp

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-china-26044751.amp

https://www.bbc.com/news/blogs-news-from-elsewhere-33225037.amp

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-south-asia-14525537.amp

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-41660871.amp

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-54340406.amp

https://www.bbc.com/news/blogs-news-from-elsewhere-37774526.amp

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/8258013.stm

Edited by Eikokurai

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I know what the counter argument will be: these stories are international, and here the BBC uses "graft" the way foreigners use it.

Nevertheless, way to go with the receipts!

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18 minutes ago, Yamanashi said:

I know what the counter argument will be: these stories are international, and here the BBC uses "graft" the way foreigners use it.

Nevertheless, way to go with the receipts!

I anticipate that, but the BBC is the public broadcaster for the UK and the ‘paper of record’ as it were. Even when covering international news it uses British English and is written with a British audience in mind.

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