Kintamayama

Nagoya Basho 2021

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1 hour ago, RabidJohn said:

Wikipedia has it as a "two-handed arm twist down", which kind of implies it's perfectly okay.

The clincher for me, though, is that it was very easy to see what Terunofuji did, yet none of the shimpan put their hand up.

There are quite a few techniques used in ozumo that share common ground with other martial arts; ipponzeoi springs immediately to mind, but kotonage, tottari, etc. share that leverage principle. Uwatenage and shitatenage are usually accompanied by levering over the hip in a very judo-ish manner. And then there are the trips...

What was remarkable about today's bout was seeing Terunofuji, whose game is usually all about bringing his brute strength to bear, use an almost delicate technique that didn't rely on strength at all.

I think kainahineri goes in the same box with uwate/shitatehineri, which result in twisting the opponent's body. This is what happened in that bout: Teru pulled Takanosho's arm down, resulting in a rotation movement in the latter's body, twisting it and breaking his balance. But it doesn't seem that he's done any harm to the wrist itself where his grip was.

So I'm wondering a situation where it's the wrist itself that is being targeted. Is it ok or not in sumo?

Maybe a case something like kotenage? Where it's perfectly legal, but since it can easily break your opponent's joint if done not too carefully, therefore rikishi kind of restrain themselves to not overdoing it.

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Some quality sumo today. I liked Terunofuji vs. Takanosho the most. It showed Terunofuji is more than brute force. Even more i liked, it happened in the middle of the dohyo, so there was no opportunity for a dame-oshi...

What's up with Takadagawa? Today they really aimed for him :-D

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Just watched today's matches. Terunofuji's kainahineri reminded me of the match between Asashoryu and Kotooshu (day 13, 2010 January basho). Asashoryu pulled a brilliant kainahineri to win the match. Sadly, that turned out to be his last tournament. He only had two more matches after that (against Harumafuji & Hakuho) before his retirement. 

 

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1 hour ago, Adil said:

Just watched today's matches. Terunofuji's kainahineri reminded me of the match between Asashoryu and Kotooshu (day 13, 2010 January basho). Asashoryu pulled a brilliant kainahineri to win the match. Sadly, that turned out to be his last tournament. He only had two more matches after that (against Harumafuji & Hakuho) before his retirement. 

 

What a crazy crowd! I do miss that

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4 hours ago, hakutorizakura said:

I think kainahineri goes in the same box with uwate/shitatehineri, which result in twisting the opponent's body. This is what happened in that bout: Teru pulled Takanosho's arm down, resulting in a rotation movement in the latter's body, twisting it and breaking his balance. But it doesn't seem that he's done any harm to the wrist itself where his grip was.

So I'm wondering a situation where it's the wrist itself that is being targeted. Is it ok or not in sumo?

Maybe a case something like kotenage? Where it's perfectly legal, but since it can easily break your opponent's joint if done not too carefully, therefore rikishi kind of restrain themselves to not overdoing it.

Not sure about any rule on an aikido-style wrist lock, but agree that's not what was applied here. This was more a wrestling balance break, rather than any joint lock. Basically a two-handed version of the Russian Wrist Snap:

I always find it cool to see the cross-over between the various grappling styles. Terunofuji's kainahineri was an absolute thing of beauty in my books, easily rivaling any of those shown above. 

 

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6 hours ago, RabidJohn said:

Wikipedia has it as a "two-handed arm twist down", which kind of implies it's perfectly okay.

The clincher for me, though, is that it was very easy to see what Terunofuji did, yet none of the shimpan put their hand up.

There are quite a few techniques used in ozumo that share common ground with other martial arts; ipponzeoi springs immediately to mind, but kotonage, tottari, etc. share that leverage principle. Uwatenage and shitatenage are usually accompanied by levering over the hip in a very judo-ish manner. And then there are the trips...

What was remarkable about today's bout was seeing Terunofuji, whose game is usually all about bringing his brute strength to bear, use an almost delicate technique that didn't rely on strength at all.

Why would shimpan need to put their hand up?

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, specialweek 2 said:

Why would shimpan need to put their hand up?

If it was an illegal move, as people are discussing, the shimpan would put their hand up to signal they’d seen an illegal move. That they didn’t, when the move was clear to everyone, shows it wasn’t an illegal move.

Edited by Eikokurai
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Thanks for the reply but don't see how a foul could be called or what Rabidjohn saw as a foul. It was classic kainahineri.

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On 05/07/2021 at 12:53, Kintamayama said:

See, this basho there is no pressure on him. The focus is elsewhere. He can go up there without  overthinking it- he just has to mount the dohyo day by day, bout by bout, and enjoy himself without the pressure. By the time he gets to day 10 unbeaten, the focus will naturally shift to him. But by then he will have had his own momentum and will be brimming with self-confidence. Yusho. Bang.

I assume you're talking about Hakuho? I'm not so sure about the "no pressure" part. He looked might nervous the first day but much more settled on Days 2 and 3. If I'd been a shinpan and saw it, I'd have called a hair pull on Day 2 against Endo. Looked about the same as Terunofuji's last basho, fingers curled...

I agree with your general analysis, though. With a little luck, which he often seems to have, I think Hakuho can yusho. He's probably going to have to beat an ozeki or two, though.

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8 hours ago, hakutorizakura said:

Maybe related to Teru's beautiful kainahineri (or not), is it allowed in sumo to twist/attack your opponent's wrist? Such technique like in aikido AFAIK can easily bring down even a big strong guy. No matter how muscular you are, your wrist stays more less the same size (and strength).

The only kinjite (forbidden technique) description that comes remotely close is: "bending back one or more of the opponent's fingers.'

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Three days in and I don’t know if anyone can beat Terunofuji. All that tape on his knees reminds me that he isn’t Superman and he could easily fade as the tournament rolls on, but it’s just hard to see that happening. Outside of Hakuho I can’t see anyone really challenging him, and I’m not sure Hakuho even can. 
 

It does also look like this may be the last Tochinoshin tournament. He’s held on so well despite his injuries but it looks like all the will and effort in the world can’t get him a KK this time. 
 

Then again we’ve got 9 days to go so stay tuned. 

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24 minutes ago, Katsunorifuji said:

Then again we’ve got 9 days to go so stay tuned. 

They've gone back to the 13 day tournaments i see...

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3 hours ago, specialweek 2 said:

Thanks for the reply but don't see how a foul could be called or what Rabidjohn saw as a foul. It was classic kainahineri.

I don’t think he saw it as a foul. He was using the lack of shimpan interest in it as evidence it was all good.

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2 hours ago, sahaven111 said:

They've gone back to the 13 day tournaments i see...

Wow that was some bad math on my part. Not sure what I was thinking there but at least I left out my Terunofuji 17-0 zen yusho predication from the post. 

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35 minutes ago, Katsunorifuji said:

zen yusho

Is that when you win and become one in the process?

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Posted (edited)
10 minutes ago, Eikokurai said:

Is that when you win and become one in the process?

Becoming One Yokozuna is sort of like achieving nirvana in the sumo world. 

Edited by Kaninoyama

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Roga vs Tosamidori: Roga: Get the mawashi. Tosamidori: Don’t let Roga get mawashi. Result: Roga got mawashi immediately and won easily. Roga: complete success. Tosamidori: complete failure

I have always liked Chiyooori. He was able to do also strong yotsu and never gave up. Entertaining rikishi but his major shoulder problems caused him to lose to necessary pushing power and upper body power. He has had both shoulders bad and has lost his former strength. It seems shoulders are better now though so hopefully will be able to get back to juryo for good and maybe even makuuchi again. There were many excellent Chiyootori bouts when he was still healthy enough. Today he faced Oki whose juryo visit was sad struggle

Yago was makushita tsukedashi when he started in 2017 and started with 5-2 and 7-0 yusho. Took 8 basho to get to makuuchi where he stayed 4 basho getting 9-6, 6-9,6-9 and 4-11 never to be seen again.

Yago had back problems and major knee problem. He exited makuuchi after July 2019. After that he has been very mediocre and lacklustre mostly. He has stayed between Makushita 8 and Juryo 10 since 7/20.

Kotokuzan has appeared out of nowhere.  Nobody knew he was coming, nobody knows where he is going. He is the kind or rikishi that goes to work every day doing his thing not having any specific extra skills but has started his simple sumo well having two good bouts so far 1-1.

Kotokuzan continued his good solid pushing sumo but Yago was able to withstand quite well and finally got close and escorted him out. Nice spirited start in juryo.

Abi has good adductor flexibility and hip mobility and looks at least as strong as he did before his naughty things and punishment. Oho had strong tachi-ai while Abi kind of floated there but he is very skillful in these nimble moves to side and reaching mawashi and kind of showing the door to his foe. Looks easy and controlled, doesn’t look like strong sumo but agile. 17-0 in his come back now. Oho didn’t really do much sumo today.

Daishoho is not in good shape but did some sumo today. Quite aggressive today but lacks horse power. Nishikifuji took his time defending and then nice tottari yank and okuridashi.

Kaisho is now 4-0 after brilliant tachi-ai and first step against Daishomaru stopping all Daishomaru sumo action getting close and just powering him out. Perfect sumo. He looks stronger than in his first juryo stint back in 2019 (2 basho, 8-7 and 5-10).

Midorifuji has one of the most prominent wrist wrappings in sumo. I wonder if his wrists move much at all in those. He had very bad back problem last time and considering his size that is quite a combination. Not doing that well this time either and lost badly to Kyokushuho’s best weapon left hand uwatenage.

Nishikigi had 5 straight makekoshi (6-9 x 4, then 4-11 and 7-8) before getting 9-6 last basho but is still weak and lost to Sadanoumi today as Sadanoumi did some fresh sumo putting on the pressure from the start gaining good uwate and nice burly throw. This was more like Sadanoumi of old.

Takagenji lost to Azumaryu in migiyotsu which is Azumaryu’s speciality. Takagenji may have caused some turmoil with his demeanor but he should be much stronger than he is. Quite a big difference in how strong he looks and how strong he is and especially how promising he looked 2 few years ago. Big disappointment his sumo is.

Enho injured his chin in Takagenji bout but didn’t have any fracture there so was able to return. Today Tohakuryu showed another sometimes good tactics to beat Enho as Enho dives often quite low and was able to avoid Tohakuryu’s morotetsuki but Toha was able to use his speed to pull down Enho. This requires speed so not all rikishi can do this.

Kotoshoho is not himself since his injury. Takakento was strong but this is not the Kotoshoho who was able to go all out with power against sanyaku rikishi. Losing by tsukitaoshi in juryo is not the kind of future Kotoshoho and anyone who understands sumo had in mind in after 11/20 basho.

When genki Hakuyozan gets in as good tachiai as today it is very challenging to stop him anymore, at least in juryo. Kyokutaisei lost the bout at the tachiai and rest was just surviving as long as possible. Great sumo by 4-0 Hakuyozan.

Akua hit his head quite hard possibly because he might have hit his head on elevated surface. Othewise hard to imagine such uncontrolled head bang by rikishi and former judoka. Looked like concussion to me. He has also had neck problems so hopefully didn¨t aggravate that too. I think he injured his neck in car accident and whiplash in that…

 

This cutting the air custom in Japan is kind of of nice. It has positive effect here too as I have used that a bit when squeezing past human beings in tight situations. I think it is one of the nicest little polite gestures in the universe. Especially apt in places like movie theater, bus, theater and cold and moist dungeon.

 

Kaisho, Hakuyozan look really good in juryo, also Abi does his own nimble sumo well.

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Perfect sumo by Chiyonokuni. All pushes efficient, well aimed, co-operation between lower and upper body balanced, no unnecessary hussle. Just great. He is a true asset to oozumo. 3-0.

Chiyoo had nightmarish bout yesterday so should behave today and show his true sumo. Tokushoryu has performed in a bit embarrassing manner since his fluke yusho. Not to take anything away from his incredible yusho but it would have been better if did better since. Well Chiyoo had another bad bout letting Tokushoryu get his strong right hand outside immediately. Voi voi.

Kagayaki smothered Ura very nicely. All the time pressure from close range not letting Ura keep any distance. Best Kagayaki sumo this basho. It is quite rare to see Ura's sumo extinquished so totally. Great stuff.

Tochinoshin couldn't do power sumo today either even though he got into favourable position against Kaisei. This is different compared to his peak. Kaisei is strong but not so strong defensively. Also looked very light when Kaisei threw him with sukuinage. I find it very difficult to believe he could get back to his former self strenght wise since it truly isn¨t just knee but also general strenght that has decreased. 0-4.

Tamawashi was able to do his own pushing sumo but Kotonowaka hold on well although was then sidestepped or slapped around at the end. Tamawashi doesn't have his peak power anymore but Kotonowaka showed good defensive power. Hopefully he continues to get stronger so he can get to higher level soon sumowise and rankwise.

Best Shimanoumi sumo today. Tight package (as tight as his size rikishi can be), strong defence against Aoiyama, Toes obviously compressed on the dohyo, stable as castle and counter attack solid. Really strong sumo today.

Takarafuji was able deadlift over 300kg based on reports years ago. That is very heavy considering he most likely rarely trains that. In general he is strong and looks like that too but not all his strength is mediated to his sumo. Often looks like his power goes wasted somehow. Old war horse who does his thing and then eats well ( I don't really know how he eats but I guess). Beat another veteran Miyogiryu with power sumo today.

 

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Wakatakakage did impeccable sumo against Shodai. His best solid sumo with his ever growing power. Shodai didn't have much chance.

Terunofuji escaped twice Daeisho's charge and this is one reason he does so well. He can get back from awkward positions which he also did last basho. Daieisho showed his pushing power and did well but Terunofuji really is able to turn the tables well. He has this dohyo sense also at high level which is a huge addition to his formidable power.

 

Takanosho sure knows how to lose like this. You can¨t lose from that position. It is like that missed header yesterday from some Spanish player (can't remember who) but very often Takanosho does that. Very frustrating indeed. Takanosho has high strength level, he needs some lessons from Terunofuji who never does this kind of crap, Hakuho didn't do anything but run away.

 

Ichinojo getting out of Meisei's morozashi with a grip changea shows he is genki. Only lost to Takayasu yesterday.

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6 minutes ago, Kaikitsune Makoto said:

Ichinojo getting out of Meisei's morozashi with a grip change shows he is genki

I thought so, too, but the reverse camera angle in the slomo showed that it actually wasn't a morozashi by Meisei.

Anyway, good to have you back, Sir! (Applauding...)

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Even though today was closer than I would've liked, Hakuho's excellent footwork and range of motion despite his suspect knee impressed me nonetheless.

 

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Hakuho's face really says it all at the end: ''Did you guys see that shit? Crazy stuff man.''

He was almost certain that he lost when his back was taken. Seeing him again is such a riot. (Applauding...)

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There's "in the flow of the bout" and there's following your aite over the tawara to administer a definitely out-of-order dame-oshi. Bad Terunofuji! 
As much as I admire his comeback and hope he gets his rope, he keeps making me see him as the black hatter.

Maybe it's because my memory's crap, but that was one of the most miraculous escapes I've ever seen. If nothing else, Hakuho's ring sense is still on point.

 

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Posted (edited)

Wakatakakage is proving himself to be something of a nemesis for Shodai. A 3-1 record against the Ozeki so far.

Takanosho is having one of those typical week ones for a junior sanyaku – fighting well but not closing the deal. He had Hakuho today and should have finished him off. Daieisho is having himself a similar basho.

Edited by Eikokurai

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22 minutes ago, Eikokurai said:

Takanosho is having one of those typical week ones for a junior sanyaku

I guess this is a good deal since he is Maegashira actually.

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