Nagoya Basho 2021

[sumojoann 1,268]

7 hours ago, pricklypomegranate said:

I mean, that’s not my opinion - that’s what Sports Hochi reported. Seemed a little odd if there was no break between the quotes. You mean the rumours of the mistress? 

My husband asked if the mistress was Princess Posture!! lol

[pricklypomegranate 730]

1 hour ago, sumojoann said:

My husband asked if the mistress was Princess Posture!! lol

The alleged mistress was Mongolian - a friend of his sister’s. Princess Posture, on the other hand, is the daughter of Takakeisho’s tanimachi. 

[sumojoann 1,268]

3 minutes ago, pricklypomegranate said:

The alleged mistress was Mongolian - a friend of his sister’s. Princess Posture, on the other hand, is the daughter of Takakeisho’s tanimachi. 

I should have realized that he would allegedly choose a Mongolian woman.  My husband was really just joking.  We know it wouldn't be PP!

Edited July 20, 2021 by sumojoann

[Kashunowaka 300]

3 hours ago, Seiyashi said:

No rikishi ought to be wearing anything in public other than traditional dress.

Except this one of course: https://www.redbubble.com/i/t-shirt/Gambarize-一生懸命-Light-by-theplumwolf/43875332.88ZX2

(Disclaimer: I am not affiliated with this site, but it's a nice T-shirt.)

[pricklypomegranate 730]

Is Princess Posture a cardboard cutout or and actual person? Hard to tell with that posture and stillness. I suppose we will never know. 

[Yaochozuna 137]

Re Hakuho's hinkaku: I don't think he's ever had any. What he has (and in spades), though, is some kind of Mongolian warrior pride/code/honour that's partially compatible with Japanese hinkaku and can be presented as one. At its core, however, it's a type of honour of a „barbarian raider“, not of a „civilised samurai“. And, among other things, it just allows for behaviour that seems incompatible with hinkaku proper. That's at least, how I fancy to see him

[sumojoann 1,268]

4 hours ago, pricklypomegranate said:

Is Princess Posture a cardboard cutout or and actual person? Hard to tell with that posture and stillness. I suppose we will never know. 

Yes, she is an actual human person.  Watch this video!!  She comes down the stairs at 0:35.  At 2:25, she takes a small pillow out of her shopping bag and discreetly tucks it under herself.  That must be what people refer to as a "seiza pillow" (I guess).

 

Edited July 20, 2021 by sumojoann

[Seiyashi 4,108]

Wow, I'm impressed. No sign of a seiza stool too.

[sumojoann 1,268]

4 minutes ago, Seiyashi said:

Wow, I'm impressed. No sign of a seiza stool too.

I edited my comments above to add info about a small pillow she tucked under herself.  Was it a stool or pillow?

Edited July 20, 2021 by sumojoann

[Seiyashi 4,108]

Looked like a pillow. The stools fold flat but expand out to about that size, yes. Something like this: https://www.solcion.jp/en/product/patatto_seiza.html

[sumojoann 1,268]

3 minutes ago, Seiyashi said:

Looked like a pillow. The stools fold flat but expand out to about that size, yes. Something like this: https://www.solcion.jp/en/product/patatto_seiza.html

Very interesting!  I never knew such a thing existed.  Yes, PP's is definitely a little pillow.

[sumojoann 1,268]

43 minutes ago, Kashunowaka said:

Except this one of course: https://www.redbubble.com/i/t-shirt/Gambarize-一生懸命-Light-by-theplumwolf/43875332.88ZX2

(Disclaimer: I am not affiliated with this site, but it's a nice T-shirt.)

I'm disappointed that the t-shirt doesn't have any kanji on it even though the description of it does.  Having the kanji would really make it cool!

[Dapeng 236]

1 hour ago, Yaochozuna said:

is some kind of Mongolian warrior pride/code/honour that's partially compatible with Japanese hinkaku and can be presented as one. At its core, however, it's a type of honour of a „barbarian raider“, not of a „civilised samurai“.

Partially agree. That's why, probably, the Mongolian-born rikishi are much more successful. 

As to ancient samurai, when they fought, they fought to death. Don't know what kind of "hinkaku" they had DURING their sword fighting.

I think many people know the story of the famous Miyamoto Musashi and how he won his most famous fight. I think Haku used somehow similar strategy to defeat Teru days ago.

[Yamanashi 3,904]

5 minutes ago, Dapeng said:

Partially agree. That's why, probably, the Mongolian-born rikishi are much more successful. 

As to ancient samurai, when they fought, they fought to death. Don't know what kind of "hinkaku" they had DURING their sword fighting.

I think many people know the story of the famous Miyamoto Musashi and how he won his most famous fight. I think Haku used somehow similar strategy to defeat Teru days ago.

From Sun Tzu to Miyamoto Musashi to Indiana Jones to the Dread Pirate Roberts, the win is not tarnished by being smarter than your opponent.

[rokudenashi 324]

1 hour ago, sumojoann said:

Yes, she is an actual human person.  Watch this video!!  She comes down the stairs at 0:35.  At 2:25, she takes a small pillow out of her shopping bag and discreetly tucks in under herself.  That must be what people refer to as a "seiza pillow" (I guess).

 

Phew, just in time too - can't miss the Nishikigi match

[Yaochozuna 137]

25 minutes ago, Dapeng said:

That's why, probably, the Mongolian-born rikishi are much more successful.

One English word that describes both Hakuho and Terunofuji, and which I struggle to attribute to any Japanese rikishi of now, is "fierce".  Is Takayasu fierce? Kinda? Takakeisho? Kinda, too? Well, Chiyonofuji was fierce for sure. Wajima possibly, from the footage I have seen. (Speaking of Wajima, I can't help but see him as a version of Emperor Nero who instead of writing bad poetry opted to beat people.) I can feel this fierceness from Hoshoryu, too. But current Japanese? Maybe Hokutofuji's straightforwardness is bordering on fierceness. And that's about it. Mitakeumi is an underachiever, so is Onosho. Enho's fierceness, without doubt at least partially inspired by His Goatness' presence, seems to have been crushed, at least temporarily. Shodai is a technician with an unusually soft heart. That makes him likable for some but fierceness is an alien concept for him. Asanoyama is a subverted version of Hamlet who just couldn't decide whether he's fierce or not and ended up checkmating himself. As much as I like Ura, that's just not fierceness. And the rest is currently not worth mentioning.

Disclaimer: When I speak about "fierce" I mean the sumo-level of fierce, used relatively to other rikishi, not to normal mortals such as myself. Compared to me, a Shonanzakura is the paragon of fierceness, of course

[Seiyashi 4,108]

10 minutes ago, Yaochozuna said:

One English word that describes both Hakuho and Terunofuji, and which I struggle to attribute to any Japanese rikishi of now, is "fierce".  Is Takayasu fierce? Kinda? Takakeisho? Kinda, too? Well, Chiyonofuji was fierce for sure. Wajima possibly, from the footage I have seen. (Speaking of Wajima, I can't help but see him as a version of Emperor Nero who instead of writing bad poetry opted to beat people.) I can feel this fierceness from Hoshoryu, too. But current Japanese? Maybe Hokutofuji's straightforwardness is bordering on fierceness. And that's about it. Mitakeumi is an underachiever, so is Onosho. Enho's fierceness, without doubt at least partially inspired by His Goatness' presence, seems to have been crushed, at least temporarily. Shodai is a technician with an unusually soft heart. That makes him likable for some but fierceness is an alien concept for him. Asanoyama is a subverted version of Hamlet who just couldn't decide whether he's fierce or not and ended up checkmating himself. As much as I like Ura, that's just not fierceness. And the rest is currently not worth mentioning.

Disclaimer: When I speak about "fierce" I mean the sumo-level of fierce, used relatively to other rikishi, not to normal mortals such as myself. Compared to me, a Shonanzakura is the paragon of fierceness, of course 

I think you're looking for "ruthlessness" in the sense of the real drive to win. I'd still hesitate to meet any of them in a dark alley when they had game faces on, but as you said I'd probably be pretty confident the Japanese rikishi wouldn't actually beat me to a pulp.

[Yaochozuna 137]

25 minutes ago, Seiyashi said:

I think you're looking for "ruthlessness" in the sense of the real drive to win. I'd still hesitate to meet any of them in a dark alley when they had game faces on, but as you said I'd probably be pretty confident the Japanese rikishi wouldn't actually beat me to a pulp.

English isn't my mother tongue, so I might be just mixing things up but I don't think that my grasp of "fierce" is synonymous to your "ruthlessness" in the sense of the real drive to win. That would be Chiyoshoma (whom I wouldn't believe in the aforementioned dark alley, either ). And no, Chiyoshoma isn't fierce. Just ruthless. Asashoryu was fierce and ruthless. Hakuho is fierce and this fierceness might be seen as ruthlessness by some. (Very difficult to explain myself as most of it is based on language sense and feelings. Ironically, I can't come up with a proper synonym for this my understanding of English "fierce" in Czech. Maybe a mix of prudký and urputný but it's just not it. We're probably too peaceful a people to have fitting synonyms in this area .)

[Washuyama 641]

57 minutes ago, Yaochozuna said:

Wajima possibly, from the footage I have seen

I never thought of him as fierce but maybe that's because I always thought of Kitanoumi as the fierce one.   I considered Wajima as more mellow.

Edited July 20, 2021 by Washuyama

[junsan 196]

1 hour ago, Yaochozuna said:

One English word that describes both Hakuho and Terunofuji, and which I struggle to attribute to any Japanese rikishi of now, is "fierce".  Is Takayasu fierce? Kinda? Takakeisho? Kinda, too? Well, Chiyonofuji was fierce for sure. Wajima possibly, from the footage I have seen. (Speaking of Wajima, I can't help but see him as a version of Emperor Nero who instead of writing bad poetry opted to beat people.) I can feel this fierceness from Hoshoryu, too. But current Japanese? Maybe Hokutofuji's straightforwardness is bordering on fierceness. And that's about it. Mitakeumi is an underachiever, so is Onosho. Enho's fierceness, without doubt at least partially inspired by His Goatness' presence, seems to have been crushed, at least temporarily. Shodai is a technician with an unusually soft heart. That makes him likable for some but fierceness is an alien concept for him. Asanoyama is a subverted version of Hamlet who just couldn't decide whether he's fierce or not and ended up checkmating himself. As much as I like Ura, that's just not fierceness. And the rest is currently not worth mentioning.

Disclaimer: When I speak about "fierce" I mean the sumo-level of fierce, used relatively to other rikishi, not to normal mortals such as myself. Compared to me, a Shonanzakura is the paragon of fierceness, of course

Fierce like Fudo-myoo. Remember that Mongolian Buddhism is a close cousin of Japanese Shingon, both stemming from Vajrayana Buddhism and both having fierce, wrathful deities.

[sumojoann 1,268]

Fierceness and ruthlessness have separate but related meanings, and I think both apply to Hakuho and Terunofuji and maybe to a lesser extent to the other Mongolians.  Fierceness means menacingly wild, savage, hostile, violent in force or intensity.  Ruthlessness means without pity, compassion, cruel, merciless or remorseless.  I think Hakuho has these characteristics more than Terunofuji and that's partly why he lost the bout with Hakuho.

[sumojoann 1,268]

37 minutes ago, Washuyama said:

I never thought of him as fierce but maybe that's because I always thought of Kitanoumi as the fierce one.   I considered Wajima as more mellow.

Araiwa (Cal Martin), the American former rikishi who has posted here on SF, was in the same heya as Wajima.  Araiwa hated Wajima but it was partly because Wajima was better at sumo than he was and Waima made it look easy.  However, Araiwa said that Wajima whined about every little thing.  I can't recall the details but one time it was about his own finger.  I think he had a small cut on it and made a big deal about it which disgusted Araiwa.

[Dapeng 236]

50 minutes ago, Yaochozuna said:

English isn't my mother tongue, so I might be just mixing things up but I don't think that my grasp of "fierce" is synonymous to your "ruthlessness" in the sense of the real drive to win. That would be Chiyoshoma (whom I wouldn't believe in the aforementioned dark alley, either ). And no, Chiyoshoma isn't fierce. Just ruthless. Asashoryu was fierce and ruthless. Hakuho is fierce and this fierceness might be seen as ruthlessness by some. (Very difficult to explain myself as most of it is based on language sense and feelings. Ironically, I can't come up with a proper synonym for this my understanding of English "fierce" in Czech. Maybe a mix of prudký and urputný but it's just not it. We're probably too peaceful a people to have fitting synonyms in this area .)

"Ruthless" (disregard of rules) is a negative  word. "Fierce" is mostly neutral. My understanding of these two words. 

Edited July 20, 2021 by Dapeng

[sumojoann 1,268]

30 minutes ago, Dapeng said:

"Ruthless" (disregard of rules) is a negative  word. "Fierce" is mostly neutral. My understanding of these two words. 

"Ruthless" generally means more than just a real drive to win.  It means to win at all costs.  To let nothing stand in the way.  NOTHING!!  "Fierce" to me is more like a wild animal.  One that is ferocious, menacing and intense.  Ruthless is worse than fierce, unless you're dealing with a wild animal that wants to tear you limb from limb!  If I were to use one word to describe Hakuho's method of fighting on senshuraku, it would have to be ruthless.  I can't say that for Terunofuji in that bout, but he has shown that he can be ruthless when fighting other rikishi.

[Dapeng 236]

38 minutes ago, sumojoann said:

"Ruthless" generally means more than just a real drive to win.  It means to win at all costs.  To let nothing stand in the way.  NOTHING!!  "Fierce" to me is more like a wild animal.  One that is ferocious, menacing and intense.  Ruthless is worse than fierce, unless you're dealing with a wild animal that wants to tear you limb from limb!  If I were to use one word to describe Hakuho's method of fighting on senshuraku, it would have to be ruthless.  I can't say that for Terunofuji in that bout, but he has shown that he can be ruthless when fighting other rikishi.

Sumo is a combat sport with strict rules. No one is allowed to fight ruthlessly, i.e., disregarding rules. A rikishi is supposed to fight to win with all he has that are within the limits of rules. No one is allowed to mukiryoku. 

Edited July 20, 2021 by Dapeng