Nagoya Basho 2021

[Itachiyama 107]

51 minutes ago, Seiyashi said:

I've translated the one on the dohyo, which is a few pages back buried amongst the fanwank. The next-day interview that Asahi carried is still untranslated though.

I interrupt your unseasonal dose of fandom wars to bring you the transcript of Hakuho's winner's interview (as requested by @Benihana):

https://www.asahi.com/articles/ASP7L6JFSP7LUTQP01V.html

• Q: You've come back with a zensho yusho.
  • A: Yes, it's the best.
• Q: You had an intense battle with Terunofuji. How did you feel about it?
  • A: I didn't pay attention to thoughts that "my right knee wasn't good". I just gave my all.
• Q: What did you think when you won?
  • A: Before the basho, I didn't think I could win with a zensho yusho. I'm really relieved.
• Q: Your family is here? (@Eikokurai: May be relevant to your last post)
  • A: My four-year-old daughter just knew that her father was a sumo wrestler, but actually got to see it in action in good shape. I hope she remembers this.
• Q: What about your right knee surgery in March?
  • A: I was wondering about the surgery. I thought I would never be able to mount the dohyo again.
• Q: What are your aims after this?
  • A: This was my 899th win as a yokozuna. After 1 more I will be at 900. With the aim of [that] one win I will give my best.
• Q: [Your thoughts on] 15 days of a "do or die" basho.
  • A: I went forward with the aim of gambarising for the Tokyo Olympics. Now we're here, and I could fulfil my promise to my father. It was a grave matter. I think it was good to have an aim like that.
• Q: What is the state of your knee?
  • A: It fought for 15 days. If I couldn't have stepped up [to the dohyo] by myself, I would have always have had regrets till the very end. Thinking about various other things instead, I could step on the dohyo and achieve a zensho.
• Q: Was there a realisation to end it here?
  • A: Let's not talk about that. Let me rest.
• Q: What about Terunofuji?
  • A: For the 15 days, he was the only one who fought with that intensity. There was truly a sense of stability, and it was completely different from the Terunofuji who stood on the dohyo three years ago.
• Q: Is there a difference compared to previous championships?
  • A: All my goals, dreams motivations, and records inspired me. Taiho said he lost his ambition after winning 32 times. I found meaning in that no one had won a yusho after 6 basho off. I set another record, and that is good.

[Itachiyama 107]

52 minutes ago, Seiyashi said:

I've translated the one on the dohyo, which is a few pages back buried amongst the fanwank. The next-day interview that Asahi carried is still untranslated though.

Thank you!

[neonbelly 226]

Some more organized but still scattered thoughts on the Haku-hoopla, note that this is more about his post-bout flex and roar and not about elbows or slaps:

1. I was first attracted to sumo not because of the action of the sport itself, but because it upheld pro-social standards that I saw mocked in Western sports which shamelessly harbour crooks, punks, and abusers of women and children. I also liked the standards of dignity where the rikishi did not make ostentatious displays of wealth or pride.

2. Beyond being morally attractive, I also liked that the tamped-down nature of sumo etiquette meant that small transgressions on the part of the rikishi became much more meaningful and dramatic in contrast to, say, American football where everyone break dances after a first down and it's just empty vulgarity. In sumo a scowl, clenched fist, or omitted bow is an "ooh-ahh" moment.

3. Standards are subject to entropy, and that entropy has to be actively resisted. People might accept a 5% deviation from a standard, but someone has to bear the burden of being a killjoy and speaking out against even a 5% deviation because if they don't, then the new standard is 95%, and the wiggle room will reach down to 90%,  and so on and so forth until the standard is erased.

3a. Does that mean the henka etc should be banned? No. In my opinion the tension between the platonic ideal of sumo and the real-world need to gut out wins makes sumo vibrate with energy. Like I alluded to at the top I'm just talking about pre-and-post-match conduct.

4. I was thrilled and instinctively "OK" with Hakuho's day 15 performance because of what I brought up in point 2. It was an awesome sight because it occurred in contrast to a sumo world populated by stoic and emotionally-regulated rikishi. The contrast between his behaviour and the normal standards of behaviour matched the contrast (in my opinion) between his accomplishment and the expected fate of a veteran in decline. The old lion was raging against the dying of the light.

5. Nonetheless, if Hakuho's behaviour is not objected to, that's one small step toward a sumo world where guys are jumping up and down when they get a KK, or making it rain when they get a wad of kenshos. As noted in point 3, small steps add up. If behavioural standards are permitted to wear down, what's to say other standards won't slip to the point where we see corporate logos on the dohyo and "this bow-twirling brought to you by McDonalds" messages?

6. Ultimately, sumo holds on because people recognize that it is *prior to* any wrestler or elder, with its own nature and standards, and those who join it are not entitled to alter it or abuse it. Therefore, I'll go with my brain over my heart and say that Hakuho should have kept it in his mawashi, so to speak.

7. I still love him.

Edited July 19, 2021 by neonbelly

[Seiyashi 4,071]

30 minutes ago, neonbelly said:

Some more organized but still scattered thoughts on the Haku-hoopla, note that this is more about his post-bout flex and roar and not about elbows or slaps:

Out of likes but very well said.

What you've said also makes me realise that maybe we in some senses "needed" that lack of hinkaku from Hakuho. Sumo needed that drama to highlight the tension between the individual and the system. If nothing had been said about it it would have been a slippery slope, but sumo would also be less fun to watch if the rikishi had no personality. Perhaps this was the best of the three outcomes after all. To be most charitable to him, maybe he too realises it and knows he of all people can most afford to play the villain (although I think he most likely just lost it in the moment of exultation), but systemically he's the best person to do it anyway so it's all good.

We are all actors on a stage (or dohyo). The wheel turns, and there is nothing new under the sun.

Edited July 19, 2021 by Seiyashi

[Kaninoyama 1,694]

5 hours ago, Seiyashi said:

I've translated the one on the dohyo, which is a few pages back buried amongst the fanwank. The next-day interview that Asahi carried is still untranslated though.

Here you go. It's rough, but here's the gist. Source

―― How do you feel one day after the yusho?
“The severity of yesterday is gone. Today is a wonderful day. The best.”

―― What kind of basho was this for you?
“In my sumo life up to now a lot has happened. 44 yushos and the accompanying memories. The value of this yusho is right up at the top.”

―― Why is this one at the top in terms of memories?
”Because my sumo career was on the line.”

―― Zensho yusho in the basho in which your sumo career was on the line.
”Yes, it’s unbelievable, isn’t it.”

―― Did your feelings change during the 15 days?
”Yes. Physically and mentally, my body gradually grew larger.”

―― Were you concerned in the early going?
”Yes. Not having any losses in the early matches was big.”

―― Was your concern the reason for your facial expression after your day-one win?
”It was an expression of ‘hey, I can do this.’”

―― At what point did you feel like you found something to carry you through?
“I would say the first day. For example, to understand it easily, think of a left-handed batter batting righty. Or a right-handed golfer swing lefty. It was big that I was able to win with that tachiai on day one. At times I’ve led with my right leg, but when I step in from my left leg, my right leg is the pivot, and in my mind I thought I couldn’t do that for 15 days.”

―― So you were worried about whether your step-in with your right leg would work?
”Well, leading up to the basho I was training with Sandanme. A right-handed batter switching to lefty. Can you do it? During the season. During the season. ”

――This is the first time you’ve fully expressed your spirit.

”Well, I was feeling that my back was up against the wall.”

―― Is this the most you ever went through the basho with thoughts of retirement?
”This basho, intai was close by, right next to me really. I pushed myself like never before.”

―― When did thoughts of intai disappear?
“After I got katchikoshi. My 51st 8-straight-win start. Even after becoming Yokozuna, kachikoshi is still the first hurdle to clear. For me, 10 wins is kachikoshi for a Yokozuna, and 12 wins is double digit. So first 8 wins—kachikoshi. Then 10, then 12, and after I got to 12, I felt like I could aim for the yusho. ”

――Having produced the result, how are you thinking in terms of your future course of action?
”It’s not for me to decide. Whatever those around me decide, that’s what I’ll do.” (This Japanese here is unclear but I think what he really means is that he plans to continue if those around him want him to.)

――After the 15 days, how’s your right knee feeling now?
”Waking up today, it feels like there’s some fluid accumulation.”

――You were tied with Terunofuji after 14 days.

“For 14 days I just looked down and mounted the dohyo when it was my turn because there’s pressure. Of course I (as Yokozuna) was always following. My experience having won 44 times came in handy. His (Teru’s) sumo was really stable. His movement has really become more precise compared to a few years ago."

―― Now that you’ve won your comeback yusho, what’s your next goal?
“When I woke up this morning, for the first time in a while I had the nice feeling that today there was nothing to do. That I don’t have to go train. I don’t have to move my body. Don’t make me think about next time. I’m going to take my time to relax.”

―― Will it be a new feeling now that there will be two Yokozuna?
“The sense of responsibility will go from 1 to 2, so it will make things a little easier.”

――What was your aim with your tachiai on day 14 against Shodai?
“Well my knee wasn’t in good shape, and I felt there was a good chance I’d lose at tachiai. I decided on doing that tachai when I woke that morning. I didn’t realize I started so far back behind the line.”

 

―― For the Terunofuji match only you braced against your right left and led with your left.

“It was unconscious. It was with my left? The first of the basho with my left? I was in the moment.”

――What was the thought behind the scream and winning fist pump after you won the yusho?
“This was the first time intai had ever come so close to me. I felt I cleared that after 12 wins. Yusho was one more hurdle to clear. All that came out when I did so. 70% of the Japanese fans thought Terunofuji woulc win in terms of strength. Even for me, I hadn’t trained with him for years and it was the first bout with him for years, and I wasn’t sure how it would go.”

Edited July 20, 2021 by Kaninoyama

[since_94 650]

13 minutes ago, Kaninoyama said:

―― Did your feelings change during the 15 days?
”Yes. Physically and mentally, my body gradually grew larger

Picking up on this very interesting turn of phrase,  Hakuho’s upper body looked very big and muscular this basho. His size was especially striking when he was standing on the dohyo with Hakkaku and the sanyaku on days 1 and 15. The physical juxtaposition with Terunofuji made it appear, IMO, that he was actually bigger than Terunofuji. I thought this was remarkable, and had to wonder whether it was just a trick of the camera angles/lighting, or even my own bias. This interview gives me more to ponder. Perhaps it was something more.
Does he project an aura that makes him appear larger than life? Or maybe he physically grew, like he says he did.

Hakuho defies science and is a fascinating athlete.

[Yamanashi 3,724]

5 hours ago, Seiyashi said:

which is a few pages back buried amongst the fanwank.

As a Sumoforum Ozeki, you may want to reassess your level of hinkaku as you approach the sacred status of Yokozuna.

[Kurowashi 42]

58 minutes ago, since_94 said:

Hakuho’s upper body looked very big and muscular this basho.

Yes, i also noticed that, especially his trapezius looked even more massive and defined than usual. Probably he was compansating the knee operation through heavy upper body workout 

[Yamanashi 3,724]

1 hour ago, Kurowashi said:

Yes, i also noticed that, especially his trapezius looked even more massive and defined than usual. Probably he was compansating the knee operation through heavy upper body workout 

I agree.  The traps especially stand out compared with photos from 2015-2019.

[pricklypomegranate 730]

Apart from Hakuho, the missus also spoke to Sports Hochi briefly, something that rarely happens anymore. Here is the translated article below. 

At the venue, Hakuho's family members prayed for him as he entered the ring. At the moment of victory, Sayoko and her four children huddled together and wept. "I didn't feel happy or anything like that. I just couldn't stop crying." 

They got married in February of 2007. They have overcome many hardships together in the past, but this time was particularly trying. "It was the most exciting and harrowing 15 days I've ever had. My three older children were told that this was an important basho, and that Dad had to work hard. After his knee surgery, he couldn't do much in his daily life. He only practice for about a month before the Nagoya basho. I think he was able to build and maintain his body and mind. He has been able to come this far with the support of everyone around him. I have nothing but gratitude." 

"We called each other everyday because we were in different parts of the country. But we didn't talk about our difficulties, thinking it would be concerning if we did. So we always tried to talk about positive things. My older children also used their cellphones to send him text messages before going to bed." 

While there was much to be said about his conduct in the ring, at home, he has a face of a kind father. During the restrictions during the pandemic, Hakuho's activites were in the kitchen as well. He began to cook, something he had always enjoyed, and began to serve his family. 

"He would make Mongolian food and stuff. One interesting happened - on Father's Day, the children wrote letters to each other, and the younger one wrote, "Dad, thank you for all the delicious food." The yokozuna himself was infected with the virus and had a difficult time, but it was a precious time nonetheless as the family got to spend more time together." Sayoko recounted. 

It's been 14 years since he became yokozuna, but Sayoko remained determined to do everything in her power to support his journey, saying, "Even if its a tough road ahead, I want to support everything the yokozuna has decided to do." 

Edited July 20, 2021 by pricklypomegranate

[Kaninoyama 1,694]

48 minutes ago, pricklypomegranate said:

While there was much to be said about his conduct in the ring, at home, he has a face of a kind father.

Well, there have been rumors from long back that he's not exactly a model husband either. 

[pricklypomegranate 730]

23 minutes ago, Kaninoyama said:

Well, there have been rumors from long back that he's not exactly a model husband either. 

I mean, that’s not my opinion - that’s what Sports Hochi reported. Seemed a little odd if there was no break between the quotes. You mean the rumours of the mistress? 

[Yamanashi 3,724]

We're on page 52 of the "Nagoya Basho 2021" thread.  Not bad for a dull, predictable basho.

[rhyen 1,809]

12 hours ago, Seiyashi said:

The symmetry of discussing Terunofuji's henka alongside Hakuho's kachiage has just struck me.

Back then everyone was demonising Terunofuji for pulling that henka on Kotoshogiku, but now we're willing to forgive him knowing the injuries he was carrying then.

Now we're all demonising Hakuho for that really brutal approach to the bout. 5 years down the road when he's interviewed about this, I bet you a few hats (or crow dinners, or whatever floats the Forum's boat) that we'll hear something about some injury somewhere, or something that makes his actions more palatable in hindsight.

Actually, the kachiage is aggravating that particular elbow. So it is more likely that he is reaping what he sowed with that technique.

[Seiyashi 4,071]

6 hours ago, Yamanashi said:

12 hours ago, Seiyashi said:

which is a few pages back buried amongst the fanwank.

As a Sumoforum Ozeki, you may want to reassess your level of hinkaku as you approach the sacred status of Yokozuna.

 

I apologise deeply for my grave lack of judgment, and for any disappointment I have caused the fans and any trouble I have caused my fellow rikishi and the oyakata. I shall bear in mind my promise to uphold the ozeki rank with dignity and will strive to do my own sumo in a manner befitting my rank.

[sumojoann 1,256]

42 minutes ago, Seiyashi said:

 

I apologise deeply for my grave lack of judgment, and for any disappointment I have caused the fans and any trouble I have caused my fellow rikishi and the oyakata. I shall bear in mind my promise to uphold the ozeki rank with dignity and will strive to do my own sumo in a manner befitting my rank.

I think you should be punished anyway.  You should have to parade back and forth in front of the Kokugikan (while wearing a Sumo Forum Ozeki t-shirt) holding a large sign that says (in both Japanese and English), "I am guilty of calling the sumo fans on Sumo Forum 'fanwankers'.  I am truly sorry for my lack of hinkaku (dignity). Seiyashi".

Edited July 20, 2021 by sumojoann

[Jakusotsu 5,806]

T-Shirt!?

That's yet another grave offense.

[Naganoyama 5,841]

Perhaps @sumojoann will have to punish @Seiyashi for that offence too...

[sumojoann 1,256]

1 hour ago, Jakusotsu said:

T-Shirt!?

That's yet another grave offense.

I guess that went over my head.  Why is a t-shirt a grave offense?

[Seiyashi 4,071]

Just now, sumojoann said:

1 hour ago, Jakusotsu said:

T-Shirt!?

That's yet another grave offense.

I guess that went over my head.  Why is a t-shirt a grave offense?

No rikishi ought to be wearing anything in public other than traditional dress.

[sumojoann 1,256]

26 minutes ago, Seiyashi said:

No rikishi ought to be wearing anything in public other than traditional dress.

Okay, great!  That will be just another part of your punishment!  But you'll notice I said nothing about wearing anything else besides the t-shirt! lol

**** I will modify or delete this post if it offends anyone! ****

Edited July 20, 2021 by sumojoann

[dada78641 884]

18 hours ago, sumojoann said:

***** FOR SOME REASON, THE VIDEO JUMPS TO THE END. YOU'LL HAVE TO USE YOUR CURSOR (OR HOWEVER YOU DO IT) TO START IT AT THE BEGINNING.***** (The actual bout starts at 4:20).

 

What probably happened is Youtube saves your position in the video so that when you come back later you can continue watching where you left off. Other people would just see the video normally, from the beginning.

[Koorifuu 886]

25 minutes ago, dada78641 said:

What probably happened is Youtube saves your position in the video so that when you come back later you can continue watching where you left off. Other people would just see the video normally, from the beginning.

That's actually because the Youtube URL was pasted with a timestamp so it starts at 625 seconds (&t=625s). It means that everyone who opens the video will be starting from the point where the user who copy-pasted the link was at the time.

Easily fixable by removing that tag!

 

Edited July 20, 2021 by Koorifuu

[Seiyashi 4,071]

6 minutes ago, Koorifuu said:

29 minutes ago, dada78641 said:

What probably happened is Youtube saves your position in the video so that when you come back later you can continue watching where you left off. Other people would just see the video normally, from the beginning.

That's actually because the Youtube URL was pasted with a timestamp so it starts at 625 seconds (&t=625s). It means that everyone who opens the video will be starting from the point where the user who copy-pasted the link was at the time.

Easily fixable by removing that tag!

You can choose which to copy: if you right click on a video (may or may not have to be on the play bar) you can choose to copy the video URL, or the video URL at current time.

[sumojoann 1,256]

1 hour ago, Seiyashi said:

You can choose which to copy: if you right click on a video (may or may not have to be on the play bar) you can choose to copy the video URL, or the video URL at current time.

Thank you @dada78641, @Koorifuu and @Seiyashi for trying to help me.  (Seiyashi & I will continue this through PM to avoid going off-topic).

Edited July 20, 2021 by sumojoann