Nagoya Basho 2021

[Hakuryuho 334]

The pearl clutching by the Sumo purists is glorious

[Eikokurai 3,433]

6 minutes ago, Hakuryuho said:

The pearl clutching by the Sumo purists is glorious

Fantastic insight. Thanks for sharing.

[ryafuji 806]

I don't like to see the elbow charge. But he's not going to stop doing it, and they can't make him stop doing it. It took the shine off a little for me but, you have to hand it to Hakuho. I honestly thought he was finished. I think that makes him the oldest yokozuna yusho winner in the 6 basho a year era. He's still doing it after 14 years. 

[Gurowake 3,886]

9 hours ago, Eikokurai said:

Harsh on Kotonowaka. 12 wins for a sansho? Tamawashi is at least a veteran with a yusho to his name so it makes some sense he’d be set a higher bar, but that’s tough on Koto.

Kanto-sho are generally more easily awarded (in terms of wins) when a maegashira is in the Yusho race, and then gets bloodied by the sanyaku and maegashira joi and finishes with only 11 wins.  Getting only that number while facing no one particularly high-ranked is not seen as particularly interesting.  In his case, he didn't face anyone higher ranked than Chiyoshoma, who was only 4 ranks above him.  12 wins for someone with no sanyaku experience is enough, but a random 11 wins really isn't. 

I'm also surprised Tamawashi was even in consideration given his Yusho as Sekiwake before.  Maybe they just have something against Kasugano-beya, as a few years ago in close succession both Tochiozan (July 2017) and Tochinoshin (May 2017) got 12 wins as a maegashira without any sansho consideration, while at the time they didn't even have yusho and Tochinoshin had only one basho as Sekiwake.  It might be an age thing though - Tamawashi is the oldest in Makuuchi, about 4 months older than Hakuho.

[Seiyashi 4,068]

8 minutes ago, Gurowake said:

  It might be an age thing though - Tamawashi is the oldest in Makuuchi, about 4 months older than Hakuho.

So what you're saying is, once Hanakaze gets to makuuchi, he's a shoo-in for Kanto sho as long as he KKs.

[Gurowake 3,886]

1 minute ago, Seiyashi said:

So what you're saying is, once Hanakaze gets to makuuchi, he's a shoo-in for Kanto sho as long as he KKs.

Seeing as it's not going to happen, I 100% agree with this hypothetical.

[ryafuji 806]

I remember there was a bit of complaining about Aminishiki getting a kantosho for an 8-7, but come on, the guy was 39. 

[Reonito 1,306]

6 hours ago, Eikokurai said:

That was my feeling too. Robbery!

I'm not going to try to find a screen shot, but I thought Shodai's heel had touched out earlier.

[Tochinofuji 364]

58 minutes ago, ryafuji said:

No, premature speculation caused by my current mood of frustration. 

On the plus side, elbows are much simpler joints than shoulders (which is what Kisenosato's pec tear would have buggered, along with the muscle itself), and much more readily fixed with surgery and supported by tape or a brace. My hope is that any injury there can be squared away without too much fuss, and given Terunofuji's prowess on the belt, it won't be quite as problematic as if he were a pusher simpliciter (as it were). Though as someone that's ruptured his UCL, Teru very much has my sympathy. 

[lackmaker 428]

10 minutes ago, ryafuji said:

I remember there was a bit of complaining about Aminishiki getting a kantosho for an 8-7, but come on, the guy was 39. 

Quite right he was only 39. But make the over 40s work a bit harder for prizes I say.

[Seiyashi 4,068]

33 minutes ago, lackmaker said:

45 minutes ago, ryafuji said:

I remember there was a bit of complaining about Aminishiki getting a kantosho for an 8-7, but come on, the guy was 39. 

Quite right he was only 39. But make the over 40s work a bit harder for prizes I say.

Boomer rikishi: Young rikishi nowadays don't know how good they have it! No bamboo canes, no golf clubs, handphones, and disrespecting their seniors...

Young rikishi: Boomer rikishi nowadays don't know how good they have it! Guaranteed kanto sho, loads of kyujo, and people go easy on them...

[Dapeng 232]

1 hour ago, Seiyashi said:

It looked very bad on the replay, but is it confirmed?!

If so, that's one more thing Hakuho has to answer for.

Don't know if Harumafuji had ever answered Kisenosato's injury ......

[Gooner 39]

I don't blame Hakuho for the possible injury to Terunofujis elbow. He got himself in an advantageous position and made the most of the only grip he had, the arm... 

I do blame him for that huge kachiage. Blinding Teru with his left hand and uppercut him with his right arm. The bout could have been over right there with Teru unconscious on the clay. 

[Tigerboy1966 1,376]

Kotonowaka seemed to be absorbing wins by osmosis. He didn't beat anyone that you couldn't have reasonably expected him to beat so I'm a bit surprised about the kanto-sho. If it were up to me I would have given a gino-sho to both Ichinojo and Kiribayama who achieved excellent results with classic sumo technique.

[Dapeng 232]

1 hour ago, pricklypomegranate said:

Why retire after this 900 win target, when you can retire after a zensho yusho? 

I suppose I am thankful to Hakuho for showing me how superficial a yusho can really be. It gives me great confidence that my favourite rikishi don't have to be the greatest winners of all time. But at the rate he's eroding his reputation and the goodwill of the public, his peers and others in the sumo community, I am just really really concerned for him. 

A rikishi, once on the dohyo, is supposed to use all he has that not forbidden by rules to win.  Teru's strength is superior over everyone else including Hakuho and he hadn't met any serious resistance this basho. As long as his knees hold and Hakuho retires soon, I don't see any one else can beat him if he chooses to win. 

 

[hakutorizakura 582]

13 minutes ago, Dapeng said:

Don't know if Harumafuji had ever answered Kisenosato's injury ......

Not on the dohyo, but I read somewhere that he was really worried about Kise after the bout.

[Dapeng 232]

2 minutes ago, Gooner said:

I do blame him for that huge kachiage.

I think Hakuho has been thinking how he can beat Teru from yesterday. His weird tachiai yesterday was not for beating Shodia but a strategy to confuse Teru. The kachiage is the only one Hakuho used this basho and I think it took Teru by quite a surprise. 

[neonbelly 226]

I carry my own cultural biases to sumo, of course, being a Westerner involved in Western wrestling before finding sumo. But that being the case, I have no problem with a Yokozuna fighting like the devil. Another part of that bias is wanting to see the best guys use a deep repertoire of techniques, even eccentric and nasty ones--I want to see the total martial art on the dohyo. 

Akashi might have not existed but I've always liked this depiction of him choking the **** out of a wrestler while not even in a mawashi and holding a sake cup to boot.

Edited July 18, 2021 by neonbelly

[Dapeng 232]

3 minutes ago, hakutorizakura said:

Not on the dohyo, but I read somewhere that he was really worried about Kise after the bout.

Sumo is a combat sport and injury can't be avoided. Takakeisho's injury came only from the collision at the tachiai, and could be a life-threatening one if he had continued to press on. 

[Seiyashi 4,068]

Just now, neonbelly said:

Akashi might have not existed but I've always liked this depiction of him choking the **** out of a wrestler while not even in a mawashi and holding a sake cup to boot.

I mean, someone died from a kick in some of the first bouts of sumo ever, so...

[Mightyduck 67]

7 hours ago, pricklypomegranate said:

His calm was what won Terunofuji those 14 victories. But today, he really lost his composure and that's what cost him the yusho. Whatever the case, it wasn't aesthetically pleasing sumo. Everyone's happy. Hak gets his 45th with a zensho and gets to retire, but the need for a new yokozuna is apparent, and that's Terunofuji. 

A massive elbow shot to the jaw will do that I guess...   

[yorikiried by fate 1,987]

I am pleased to see that Hakuho channelled his inner Asashoryu.

For the records and without irony: This was a legit bout, potentially including an injury of Terunofuji. I truly didn't expect this.

[Maguroyama 27]

7 hours ago, since_94 said:

People alleging “ugly sumo”…I dunno. Abema just rolled through replays of all his victories and there were some very colorful, dramatic, and technically skilled finishes among them. A couple of instances of brute power prevailing, a couple of lucky ones. He had it all. Today versus Terunofuji, I thought was the perfect bout under the circumstances. No one slipped, no boring yorikiri or hitakikomi, the harite exchange, they got on the belt, it went long, that awesome stare down as a lead up. I mean, what the heck do people want before they’re satisfied?
 

As for alleging poor sportsmanship for the celebration….whatever. Look at those numbers, will ya?

I totally agree. While I can understand that people are disappointed, I think too much is being made of his "behaviour". No sportsmanship? Come on, it's a competetive combat sport. Things will happen. It must a burden to expect perfection all the time. "My favorite team won but one of the players made an ugly foul, thus the're not worthy..." 

[RabidJohn 1,644]

35 minutes ago, Gooner said:

I do blame him for that huge kachiage. Blinding Teru with his left hand and uppercut him with his right arm. The bout could have been over right there with Teru unconscious on the clay. 

I blame Terunofuji for leaving his chin open to a perfectly legitimate move that Hakuho has used previously. He is just lucky he didn't end up the same as Myogiryu in 2012.

Look, I get why so many people are extremely unhappy about the way events unfolded. My favourite yokozuna remains Chiyonofuji. Hakuho has never had the right degree of hinkaku for me, and we saw that in its extreme today. The face and attitude after the bout was all wrong. 

But falling way short of ideals is not breaking the rules. Nor was the brawling, brutal sumo he came out with today. 

And even though he can be thoroughly unlikeable at times, I stand in awe of his achievements. Pulling off a zensho at the age of 36, after already having had the greatest yokozuna career of all time, when everybody thought he was past it... 

I can forgive him for not being perfect.

[neonbelly 226]

7 hours ago, Swami said:

It's almost as if they have to wait for someone to suffer a bad injury as a result of this before any action will be taken.  Look at rugby now, they are trying to enforce tackles being no higher than shoulder/mid-section so that the head is not at risk.  Leading elbows to the head needs to be stamped out ASAP.

 

Swami

I think the biggest thing sumo could do to protect the head is not be so strict about hands down at the tachiai, which inclines the rikishi's domes toward each other.

Watch Taiho's win streak on youtube, you'll see they don't start with hands down at all, and their heads never smash together. 

Watching Hakuho I'm very confident that he leads with the outstretched arm to deflect the opponent's head and make a head-to-head impact impossible. Not that the elbow to the jaw is great for the other guy but Hakuho is smart about protecting himself that way. Wrestlers like Takakeisho who almost always open with a head butt will pay for it later in life.

As to banning face slaps, I can't support that. Sumo is unique among grappling arts in allowing strikes and thrusts, and it shouldn't lose that.

Edited July 18, 2021 by neonbelly