Nagoya Basho 2021

[Kaninoyama 1,711]

2 minutes ago, specialweek 2 said:

So who represented sumo ceremony at Nagano Winter Olympics? Btw why is everyone assuming Hakuho has a role in the Olympics? 

Because he's been talking about having one since Tokyo was awarded the games. 

Edited July 18, 2021 by Kaninoyama

[specialweek 2 136]

1 minute ago, Kaninoyama said:

Because he's been talking about having one since Tokyo was awarded the games. 

No he was hoping to be asked. Btw, obviously you don't know that Akebono was the yokozuna that did a dohyo iri at the Nagano Olympics. 

[Jakusotsu 5,866]

8 hours ago, Kaninoyama said:

In his daily Chunichi sports column, Kitanofuji weighed in on yesterday's Hakuho bout. To say he wasn't a fan of Hakuho's approach is an understatement. 

"I've got no interest in tomorrow's last match. I'm so mad I'm going to eat and go to bed."

I hope Kitanofuji did, so he didn't have to watch this ugly display of what sumo is not about.

All his previous achievements notwithstanding, Hakuho lost another fan today.

[mikawa 1,794]

Congrats to Terunofuji for making it to Yokozuna, and for Hakuho, at least one Yusho in 16 CONSECUTIVE years? That's simply remarkable

[specialweek 2 136]

The original director of opening and closing ceremonies was replaced. No one knows, other than people involved, know who will be in the ceremonies. It is supposed to be secret. It is assumed because it is Japan that sumo will have some role and it may do.

[Seiyashi 4,072]

11 minutes ago, specialweek 2 said:

14 minutes ago, Kaninoyama said:

Because he's been talking about having one since Tokyo was awarded the games. 

No he was hoping to be asked. Btw, obviously you don't know that Akebono was the yokozuna that did a dohyo iri at the Nagano Olympics. 

I think you mixed up who started that line of inquiry vs who replied to your post. That's two different people there.

[specialweek 2 136]

3 minutes ago, Seiyashi said:

I think you mixed up who started that line of inquiry vs who replied to your post. That's two different people there.

Yes I know but follow the path of comment should bring the original poster back into play.

[Faustonowaka 114]

With the promotion of Terunofuji guaranteed, Isegahama will be able to perform his kanreki-dohyo-iri flanked by his two yokozuna disciples

[Seiyashi 4,072]

5 minutes ago, Faustonowaka said:

With the promotion of Terunofuji guaranteed, Isegahama will be able to perform his kanreki-dohyo-iri flanked by his two yokozuna disciples

Is that for sure? If his is an NSK-sanctioned kanreki held at the Kokugikan, I'm not sure what the prospects for Harumafuji coming back to be an attendant are, considering he's outside the sumo world (disgrace or not).

AFAIK only in private kanreki have non-oyakata or non-current yokozuna been attendants.

But yes, at the very least Terunofuji will be able to be an attendant at his ceremony.

[yohcun 399]

I've found Hakuho tremendously entertaining this basho, if nothing else. It feels like it's been ages since he had this kind of boss presence.

I'm inclined to look at everything through rose-tinted glasses right now, because Ichinojo's coming back to sanyaku. Yay.

edit: Or not. Seiyashi's right. Takayasu had been looking good, I'd forgotten he was actually make-koshi.

Edited July 18, 2021 by yohcun

[Seiyashi 4,072]

3 minutes ago, yohcun said:

I've found Hakuho tremendously entertaining this basho, if nothing else. It feels like it's been ages since he had this kind of boss presence.

I'm inclined to look at everything through rose-tinted glasses right now, because Ichinojo's coming back to sanyaku. Yay.

Not confirmed. Only if Asanoyama is made S2e will Ichinojo return, as Meisei will then be S1w and there will be a free komusubi slot. If not, Mitakeumi and Asanoyama are next basho's sekiwake, and Takayasu and Meisei the komusubi.

[Morty 1,483]

That was possibly the most intense sumo bout I have ever seen and I freaking loved it. Hak reminded me of Ali when he fought Foreman in Zaire. Like Ali, Hak is genetically incapable of not doing everything allowable within the rules in order to win. His reaction afterwards, and that of his wife and kids, shows how losing is not in his DNA. He watched Terunofuji beat all comers for the past few basho and must have had his doubts whether he could beat him, so he went deep inside himself to find what he needed to get that win. The Greatest Of All Time. God I'm going to miss him when he has gone.

[Akinomaki 40,021]

1 hour ago, Seiyashi said:

Is that Hakuho's wife and kids in the audience they keep focusing on? I thought at first they were Terunofuji supporters from the teariness but I could be wrong.

EDIT: Yes, they are - confirmed by the NHK broadcast, as well as the Hakuho towel waving. Previously only his wife, eldest son, and youngest daughter were shown, so it wasn't clear, but they later showed the whole family in the masu box (two, judging by the look of it).

The kids were in tears, the NHK yusho interview announcer mentioned them. Hakuho said he's happy his youngest daughter, 4years old, now realizes that her father is a real osumo-san.

Just a short mention: I'm a Hakuho fan since before his yokozuna promotion, when virtually everybody in the international sumo community thought he's no big deal and Asashoryu everything. The Hakuho bashing is about the same now as it was then, I don't care about the negative side, I always look at the good things. He's still the no.1 on my personal banzuke.

Edited July 18, 2021 by Akinomaki

[Swami 245]

9 minutes ago, Seiyashi said:

Is that for sure? If his is an NSK-sanctioned kanreki held at the Kokugikan, I'm not sure what the prospects for Harumafuji coming back to be an attendant are, considering he's outside the sumo world (disgrace or not).

AFAIK only in private kanreki have non-oyakata or non-current yokozuna been attendants.

But yes, at the very least Terunofuji will be able to be an attendant at his ceremony.

Hakkaku would be the other option, being a contemporary of Isegahama's.

 

Swami

[bookkeeper 4]

i'm going to be honest, the drama llama part of me kind of wants the ydc to vomit out some A class xenophobia and not recommend a teru yokozuna promotion because he didn't get the yusho, but that doesn't seem likely. however, the thought of the ensuing implosion gives me some pure masochistic pleasure.

[Kaninoyama 1,711]

1 hour ago, specialweek 2 said:

No he was hoping to be asked. Btw, obviously you don't know that Akebono was the yokozuna that did a dohyo iri at the Nagano Olympics. 

You asked why everyone is assuming Hakuho has a role in the upcoming Olympics, and he has expressed an interest in participating on numerous occasions since the Olympics were announced. Not sure why you're coping an attitude toward someone who was just trying to answer the question you asked. 

And I also have no idea why you are assuming what I know about Akebono doing a dohyo iri at the Olympics when I made no comment about it either way, but for the record I watched him do it on TV when I was living in Japan so yes I am aware of it. 

Edited July 18, 2021 by Kaninoyama

[RabidJohn 1,715]

Congratulations to the GOAT. I don't care that it wasn't pretty, nor that Hakuho lost all hinkaku in the heat of the moment. 45th yusho and 16th zensho - wow!

And I really don't care about the harite, kachi-age, or the potentially injurious kotenage. Terunofuji regularly tries to hurt his aite with kimedashi, kimetaoshi, kotenage, etc. Getting a good dose of it himself is only just desserts.

Congratulations also to Terunofuji on earning his rope with a career best result of 14-1.

[Amamaniac 2,078]

3 hours ago, since_94 said:

Please cease and desist with all discussions of what Hakuho’s toe might or might not have done and Shodai’s loss. It’s not that we’re against free speech and healthy speculation. It’s just that certain compromises must be made for the sake of…the narrative. After all, where would we be without it?

Signed, 

Judging department, NSK

Reply to Judging Department, NSK

You may take our live(s) stream, but you'll never take our freedom (to discuss WTF we want to discuss).

Signed,

Mel Gibson

[since_94 650]

15 minutes ago, Amamaniac said:

Reply to Judging Department, NSK

You may take our live(s) stream, but you'll never take our freedom (to discuss WTF we want to discuss).

Signed,

Mel Gibson

Dear Mel,

Easy does it, now. You don’t want to make us rule on kilt length next.

Signed,

The Powers that be

[Eikokurai 3,437]

[Asashosakari 18,954]

2 hours ago, Seiyashi said:

But it does accelerate the mass of opinion as to "if he can't do honest straightforward sumo, he should go". Sumo is a sport, yes, but there's also a cultural backdrop to it which means it's not as accepting of "win at all costs" as other sports would be. It's really the violation of that unwritten consensus that sumo ought to be done a certain way that Hakuho is getting flak for, not so much the fact that he won the championship (again). The fact that he is at the tail end of his career adds the further stinger of "and if he can't do proper sumo then he should retire".

For a long while I was always happy to defend Hakuho against what I saw as mostly overblown criticism of minor incidents that started creeping into sumo fandom since circa 2015, and for sure I never expected back then that I would reach this point, but: I'm honestly looking forward to sumo without his antics now. I despised the whole "but he keeps winning, WTF else do you want" attitude brought by a vocal minority of fans during the Asashoryu days (most of whom promptly and thankfully stopped watching sumo after he was gone), and it's no better this time around.

[Amamaniac 2,078]

My grandmother used to repeat the old adage: "Power corrupts, and absolute power corrupts absolutely."  Perhaps that applies to Yokozuna and Dai-Yokozuna respectively.  Hmmm.

[Eikokurai 3,437]

28 minutes ago, Asashosakari said:

For a long while I was always happy to defend Hakuho against what I saw as mostly overblown criticism of minor incidents that started creeping into sumo fandom since circa 2015, and for sure I never expected back then that I would reach this point, but: I'm honestly looking forward to sumo without his antics now. I despised the whole "but he keeps winning, WTF else do you want" attitude brought by a vocal minority of fans during the Asashoryu days (most of whom promptly and thankfully stopped watching sumo after he was gone), and it's no better this time around.

The way I look at it is, if that's what we can expect in every senshuraku face-off between Hakuho and Yokozuna Terunofuji hereafter, he should gracefully retire. I get why he did it – he wanted to win, and fair enough – but people will want and expect to see him go chest-to-chest with Terunofuji once the latter has the rope. If he can't, and today's performance suggests he doesn't feel confident himself that he can, then what's the point of carrying on? His legacy is set. We can ask no more of him than he's done. We're into diminishing returns territory now. Every extra yusho he wins matters less to his legacy than it used to. 45 is the same as 44. People aren't judging him on records anymore, but be sure plenty will privately dock him a few reputation points for every win they feel is beneath a man of his talent. 

Edited July 18, 2021 by Eikokurai

[specialweek 2 136]

1 hour ago, Kaninoyama said:

You asked why everyone is assuming Hakuho has a role in the upcoming Olympics, and he has expressed an interest in participating on numerous occasions since the Olympics were announced. Not sure why you're coping an attitude toward someone who was just trying to answer the question you asked. 

And I also have no idea why you are assuming what I know about Akebono doing a dohyo iri at the Olympics when I made no comment about it either way, but for the record I watched him do it on TV when I was living in Japan so yes I am aware of it. 

You chose to grab part of my response to a post by another poster I was explaining to that person and mixed in with your post. He has expressed a desire to play a role. No guaranty he will as I also explained the director was sacked and a new opening and closing ceremony director was appointed. My point is if he is in either opening or closing no one knows but organisers and participants. 

[Seiyashi 4,072]

5 minutes ago, Eikokurai said:

The way I look at it is, if that's what we can expect in every senshuraku face-off between Hakuho and Yokozuna Terunofuji hereafter, he should gracefully retire. I get why he did it – he wanted to win, and fair enough – but people will want and expect to see him go chest-to-chest with Terunofuji once the latter has the rope. If he can't, and today's performance suggests he doesn't feel confident himself that he can, then what's the point of carrying on? His legacy is set. We can ask no more of him than he's done. We're into diminishing returns territory now. Every extra yusho he wins matters less to his legacy than it used to. 45 is the same as 44. People aren't judging him on records anymore, but be sure plenty will privately dock him a few reputation points for every win they feel is beneath a man of his talent. 

I couldn't have put it better myself. 

FWIW I thought he sort of reached that threshold of losing reputation with all his kyujo over his past year, but knowing his desire to reach the Olympics I've been willing to give him a pass on it. But I'll be joining the calls for his departure if he continues to give us this type of sumo in Aki.

I'm frankly surprised the comparisons with Kakuryu haven't yet been drawn. That man knew when to go, and arguably had to put off his retirement due to bureacracy out of his control rather than a desire to hang on.