Kintamayama

Nagoya Basho 2021

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2 minutes ago, Benevolance said:

No, Hakuho needs Terunofuji to get the rope so he can outlast him until November and nudge that "outlasted junior yokozuna" counter to five. 

Who will be the fourth?

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15 minutes ago, Eikokurai said:

In protest?

No, not that politically charged meaning. I was referring to a QB kneeling after the snap to wind down the clock (i.e. giving up).

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On 15/07/2021 at 22:42, yorikiried by fate said:

If they both go into the final day with 14, Terunofuji will lay down (epically). Hakuho gets his comeback zensho, Terunofuji the rope and Bob's your grandfather's son.

1 hour ago, Kintamayama said:

Mike?

No. Bob!

 

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2 hours ago, Gurowake said:

If you go back more basho than that, Terunofuji's results are meaningless since he wasn't in the Makuuchi joi.  That's why I went back as far as I did, besides being how far back @yorikiried by fate's Graph shows Kisenosato's Yokozuna run, mainly because that's most likely what they were looking at - not the last 3 basho or the last 12 - especially considering one of the banzuke topics after he went 13-13 was the few number of times an Ozeki has done that and not been promoted.  

But yeah, I can still see your point that if people want something specific to point to, they can.

The selection of of the length that you quoted was a pretty arbitrary decision on my part, based on -- as you have pointed out -- what the people in charge would probably have to look at in order to legitimize the promotion. In other words: I tried to be nice, bit my fingers, pretended that I didn't think that it was 95% political, discounted the diabolical absence of mental stability or sound tachi-ai on display, and went to bed a little sad.

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1 hour ago, Kintamayama said:
14 hours ago, yohcun said:

And no one told Hatooka to shave before his interview today?

He said it was his lucky beard. Many of the guys do that.


I'm sure I read that the Kyokai had cracked down on that a few years ago, with refuseniks being summoned to the headmaster's office for a caution. But probably they were only doing it to the prime-time performers, lower division rikishi might get a bit more leeway.

 

Jonokuchi champion Shunrai is the first rikishi since Aran (speaking of stubble!) to have three losses in maezumo and then win the Jonokuchi yusho in the next basho. Not really representative of anything since the number of bouts a rikishi fights in maezumo isn't fixed, but vaguely trivia worthy I thought.

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Posted (edited)
6 minutes ago, Yubinhaad said:


I'm sure I read that the Kyokai had cracked down on that a few years ago, with refuseniks being summoned to the headmaster's office for a caution. 

 

IIRC, Kaisei had one recently. You're probably right about about the Hatter (Hatooka) being far from the eye so to speak so it's not an issue. Anyway, he was asked specifically during his interview and actually answered quite at length, saying it was for luck. And it was quite a serious stubble, IIMSSM.

Edited by Kintamayama
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6 hours ago, Joaoiyama said:

"Chris Sumo" declared that Terunofuji is guaranteed promotion to Yokozuna because Isegahama said 13 wins meets the criteria.

Not that there's anything disagreeable with the gist of the statement, but "Chris declared" and "because Isegahama said" is frying my bullshit meter.

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15 minutes ago, Jakusotsu said:

Not that there's anything disagreeable with the gist of the statement, but "Chris declared" and "because Isegahama said" is frying my bullshit meter.

He even mentioned that Isegahama is the head of banzuke making or something so "apparently" it's a done deal...

 (Blowingupfuriously...)

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I still think doubts about anything but a 14-1 JY being enough were quite reasonable ahead of the tournament.

Takakeisho's 13-2 Yusho (on the back of a 12-3 YD) prompted a loud "Only a strong Yusho will be enough!" comment - I don't remember by whom, but memory says it was one of the higher ups. This was about half a year - or three Basho - ago... So it's not from a totally different time. 

With Terunofuji, they seemed really supportive after a "mere" 12-3 yusho following a 12-3 Yusho at Sekiwake. 

To be perfectly clear: Terunofuji is a perfectly fine Yokozuna from the way he competed since his return to Makuuchi. It still is somewhat surprising to my western brain that 12-3 + 13-2 can be somehow light-years worse than 12-3+12-3, even when taking "soft" factors like "quality of sumo" into account 

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15 hours ago, Seiyashi said:

I think we've previously established a few basho ago that the "plane of the dohyo" is not a thing, at least not to the judges. If anything, this torinaoshi disestablishes that notion even more.

Thanks Seiyashi. This below the dohyo has never been a thing. His other foot was still inside the tawara. Torinaoshi correct.

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5 hours ago, Swami said:

If true it sends out the wrong message, if the promotion is all but guaranteed, and Terunofuji doesn't bother at all in the last two bouts.

I used to like some of Chris' videos but as far he is concerned Hakuho is completely incapable of doing any wrong, and there is also something of an anti-Kyokai element to them as well.

 

Swami

I think it was the Takakeisho re-entering after being injured, and also the Tochinoshin foot debacle that made him become critical of every misstep that the NSK does. He has really been all over the place with that and yes, he has been riding Hakuho's tsuna for so long it's really showing in his bias

 

In my opinion right now, it's got to be the yusho. I think Terunofuji knows that and I don't think he would feel good being promoted on a jun-yusho, especially if he wanted to leave no doubt in people's minds, the same way he did back in March

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As far as Terunofuji I think something no one is mentioning is his age. If this was 4 years ago and he was injury free I think the Kyokai would want to see a bit more, as in needing the 2 yusho, as they did with holding Takakeisho back a bit. But Terunofuji is 29 now, and his career has les time than it once did. I think the Kyokai will want to reward such a career if it's reasonably possible as they did with Kisenosato. 

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Posted (edited)
16 minutes ago, Rocks said:

As far as Terunofuji I think something no one is mentioning is his age. If this was 4 years ago and he was injury free I think the Kyokai would want to see a bit more, as in needing the 2 yusho, as they did with holding Takakeisho back a bit. But Terunofuji is 29 now, and his career has les time than it once did. I think the Kyokai will want to reward such a career if it's reasonably possible as they did with Kisenosato. 

It is also likely that Terunofuji's tenure as a Yok would resemble his shisho's, or for a more recent comparison, Tochinoshin's time as Ozeki - dominant performances while healthy to achieve the rank, but shortly thereafter the old injuries that don't go away come back and suddenly those strong performances are but a memory. So it needs to be now before his knees betray him again. And I have no doubt he deserves the rope.

Edited by Morty

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I was joking about the yellow text guys...

A lot of question dodging about the yokozuna promotion but it seems like nobody is demanding an outright yusho. If a junyusho they'll decide at that time based on the quality...

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2 hours ago, WAKATAKE said:

I think it was the Takakeisho re-entering after being injured, and also the Tochinoshin foot debacle that made him become critical of every misstep that the NSK does. He has really been all over the place with that and yes, he has been riding Hakuho's tsuna for so long it's really showing in his bias. 

Chris is an example for how people can be multiple things at once. 

His videos have quite a value in my opinion. 

He can come across as arrogant, prickish and somewhat of a Sumo conspiracy nut. Yet he also seems intelligent, passionate about Sumo and has the will to do extensive research and share results basically for free. 

I will always be critical of how he attacked people who make bashos and such available to me as not contributing to the fandom. Yet I will always like his historic videos or his retrospective on Kisenosato's career. 

To not make this a post about a Sumo Youtuber: Is it just me or is there a tendency to accept help from the opponent aswell as handshakes now? Normally Rikishi seemed to respectfully decline if anyone offered help, I feel like it happened a lot during the Basho. Anyone else feel the same way? 

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1 hour ago, Rocks said:

As far as Terunofuji I think something no one is mentioning is his age. If this was 4 years ago and he was injury free I think the Kyokai would want to see a bit more, as in needing the 2 yusho, as they did with holding Takakeisho back a bit. But Terunofuji is 29 now, and his career has les time than it once did. I think the Kyokai will want to reward such a career if it's reasonably possible as they did with Kisenosato. 

Good point to raise. There are two types of Yokozuna, broadly speaking: those who make the rank early in their career and define (or hope to define) an era, and those who make it toward the end as the culmination of their career. Hakuho and Asashoryu are examples of the former; Asahifuji and Wakanohana are examples of the latter.

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Disgusting behavior by Aoiyama on day 13 with an unecessary push on his opponent. 

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Posted (edited)

Hardly his first dame-oshi either.....one of the easier guys to dislike

Edited by Katooshu

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8 minutes ago, Thorbjarn said:

To not make this a post about a Sumo Youtuber: Is it just me or is there a tendency to accept help from the opponent aswell as handshakes now? Normally Rikishi seemed to respectfully decline if anyone offered help, I feel like it happened a lot during the Basho. Anyone else feel the same way? 

I also noticed a "whiff" of this (not a trend, but a few incidences of doing more than just checking on an opponent from the dohyo).

 

1 hour ago, Rocks said:

But Terunofuji is 29 now, and his career has less time than it once did. I think the Kyokai will want to reward such a career if it's reasonably possible as they did with Kisenosato.

To me, this doesn't seem like a Lifetime Achievement Award.  Kisenosato became Yokozuna at 30.  Meanwhile, Terunofuji has twice as many Makuuchi Yusho with half as many bouts in his career.

[Kisenosato began at sixteen while Terunofuji started at twenty (I've been warned about such talk), and T went through the lower ranks three times and didn't rack up as many bouts per basho; all of this accounts for the disparity in bouts.]

So instead of Yokozuna at 26 he's Yokozuna at 29.  Five of the last seven Yokozuna ascended at age 27 or above.  And he passes the "eye" test far and above anyone else.

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33 minutes ago, Fujisan said:

Disgusting behavior by Aoiyama on day 13 with an unecessary push on his opponent. 

He had just been flagged for his MK loss against a media darling who had used an illegal move to attain the win.  The loss was later overturned as a hansoku, but given the circumstances at the time, his action seems to have been somewhat justified.

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5 minutes ago, Asojima said:

He had just been flagged for his MK loss against a media darling who had used an illegal move to attain the win.  The loss was later overturned as a hansoku, but given the circumstances at the time, his action seems to have been somewhat justified.

Eh? Think you might be confusing rikishi.

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2 minutes ago, specialweek 2 said:

Eh? Think you might be confusing rikishi.

Aoiyama vs. Ura.  Where is the confusion ?

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6 minutes ago, Asojima said:

Aoiyama vs. Ura.  Where is the confusion ?

Aoiyama vs Ura didn't take place. You're describing what happened between Kaisei and Ura. (Sorry if I missed the joke here) 

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