Nagoya Basho 2021

[Kotogouryuu 126]

I hated Terunofuji back then for that henka. But I do understand now he was already injured then and was desperate to save his own skin. His comeback has been admirable, and do like how he has shaped his sumo to suit his current state. Look at his legs, how carefully he positions them and uses leverage to the best of his ability while avoiding further injury. Him getting the rope now would be a very good story, and I like stories.

That said, if I've noticed how he tries to get the left leg to the front, surely Hakuho has, as well. It's going to be hard to Terunofuji to beat him. But I'm very excited to see the match.

[Katooshu 3,079]

Rooting for a Teru yusho over Hak

Yokozuna promotion, incredible comeback from a rock bottom train wreck to reach the highest level, from the bad guy to the inspiration.....I'll take it over another yusho for a yokozuna who already has 44 of them and was in good enough form to yusho last year too. Credit to Hak for returning to form after sitting out for a while, but to me Teru winning would be a much greater story - 'this needs a movie' type of stuff.

Looking at discussion from when he started his comeback, there was doubts as to whether he'd even make it out of makushita again!

Edited July 15, 2021 by Katooshu

[Swami 245]

42 minutes ago, Dapeng said:

I think Hakuho is aiming for zensho yusho. If he lose today or tomorrow, he will lose again on senshuraku. 

At the very least I think Terunofuji needs 14 wins either yusho or jun-yusho.  To date he has never won more than 13, and if he does get promoted, he can't rely on the yusho being at the 12-3 level indefinitely.

Swami

[Amamaniac 2,078]

Tomorrow is Day 13.  Down in Makushita (joi), Hokuseiho Ms2w will go up against relative newcomer, Ishizaki Ms56w.  Both men are 6-0, and whoever wins that bout will claim the Makushita yusho.  With that out of the way, there will be one less thing to distract fans from the big showdown up in Makuuchi on the final day!  Will a Hokuseiho victory foreshadow a Hakuho victory two days later?  We'll just have to wait and see!

[Thorbjarn 214]

I will predict now that Takayasu will beat both Terunofuji and Hakuho. Then, both will battle for the Yusho at 13-1 on senshuraku. 

Solely wishful thinking, I will admit, but I still just really like Takayasu. 

[Katooshu 3,079]

Anyone know if Wikipedia's correct that Terunofuji originally trained in Judo with Hak's father, and that it was pappa Hak who arranged for him to go to Japan? 

Edited July 15, 2021 by Katooshu

[yorikiried by fate 1,987]

If they both go into the final day with 14, Terunofuji will lay down (epically). Hakuho gets his comeback zensho, Terunofuji the rope and Bob's your grandfather's son.

[Kaminariyuki 497]

47 minutes ago, Thorbjarn said:

I will predict now that Takayasu will beat both Terunofuji and Hakuho. Then, both will battle for the Yusho at 13-1 on senshuraku. 

Solely wishful thinking, I will admit, but I still just really like Takayasu. 

I'll eat my socks. ...but, I get to pick which pair.

[Eikokurai 3,433]

I haven’t been enthusiastic about a Hakuho yusho since about yusho 25. I’m bored of seeing him win, even after a year. So I’d much rather see Terunofuji seal the deal and leave no ambiguity about his promotion, if only to spare us from future sumo fans who missed the moment as it happened telling us his promotion wasn’t fully deserved as it came with a mere JY. And let’s face it, “Terunofuji’s remarkable comeback success story continues” is by far the better narrative than “Hakuho wins yet again.” That’s the one sports journalists want to write.

Edited July 15, 2021 by Eikokurai

[Terukuni 105]

Everybody wants to see a Hakuho - Terunofuji 14-0 senshuraku yusho fight. It hasn't happened before that since 2012, and before that, 1983. This tournament is one for the ages.

[Rocks 1,804]

3 hours ago, Swami said:

At the very least I think Terunofuji needs 14 wins either yusho or jun-yusho.  To date he has never won more than 13, and if he does get promoted, he can't rely on the yusho being at the 12-3 level indefinitely.

Swami

Well, if he gets to 14 wins it will be guaranteed to be a yusho or jun-yusho. As it is he already has a jun-yusho. It's extremely unlikely to me he loses his next 3. Both Shodai and Takayasu would need to beat him and neither looks that great this basho. So he has a minimum of a 13 win sole jun-yusho  which is enough for the rope given his record since returning to makuuchi IMO. I think it's likely both he and Hakuho get to Day 15 undefeated. If one of them loses prior I think it's more likely to be Hakuho considering how Terunofuji has been manhandling even guys who give him some trouble. 

I think it's probable though that Hakuho gets a zensho yusho.  To me that is the only way he gets to September. If he loses now, even with a yusho, I think he'll retire.

Is he gets a zensho yusho he'll go to Aki and retire after a couple loses.

[Dapeng 232]

3 hours ago, Swami said:

At the very least I think Terunofuji needs 14 wins either yusho or jun-yusho.  To date he has never won more than 13, and if he does get promoted, he can't rely on the yusho being at the 12-3 level indefinitely.

Swami

If Hakuho does not withdraw, Teru has to win at least 1 more bout to yusho, which means a 13-wins yusho. Three or more consecutive yushos were only achieved by yokozuna. 

[Getayukata 119]

4 minutes ago, Rocks said:

Well, if he gets to 14 wins it will be guaranteed to be a yusho or jun-yusho. As it is he already has a jun-yusho. It's extremely unlikely to me he loses his next 3. Both Shodai and Takayasu would need to beat him and neither looks that great this basho. So he has a minimum of a 13 win sole jun-yusho  which is enough for the rope given his record since returning to makuuchi IMO. I think it's likely both he and Hakuho get to Day 15 undefeated. If one of them loses prior I think it's more likely to be Hakuho considering how Terunofuji has been manhandling even guys who give him some trouble. 

I think it's probable though that Hakuho gets a zensho yusho.  To me that is the only way he gets to September. If he loses now, even with a yusho, I think he'll retire.

Is he gets a zensho yusho he'll go to Aki and retire after a couple loses.

I do hope Hak gets a zensho yusho but I think it may be difficult for him to get past Terunofuji as he is now.

Best of all would-be Hak gets zensho, Teru gets the rope, Hak retires covered in glory, and everyone is happy except possibly the YDC. Jim

 

 

 

 

 

[Rocks 1,804]

25 minutes ago, Getayukata said:

I do hope Hak gets a zensho yusho but I think it may be difficult for him to get past Terunofuji as he is now.

Best of all would-be Hak gets zensho, Teru gets the rope, Hak retires covered in glory, and everyone is happy except possibly the YDC. Jim

 

 

 

 

 

I do think that's likely. If they are both 14-0 on day 15 I think Hakuho wins. Terunofuji is looking unbeatable but he does suffer from nerves in big moments.  The playoffs with Kisenosato and Takakeisho show that. 

[Eikokurai 3,433]

4 hours ago, Swami said:

To date he has never won more than 13, and if he does get promoted, he can't rely on the yusho being at the 12-3 level indefinitely.

Ordinarily, I'd agree, but once Hakuho goes there is only really Takakeisho who can threaten 13-15 wins consistently enough for it to worry Terunofuji. He could feasibly win yusho pretty regularly with 12-3 for quite some time to come. Heck, without Hakuho this Nagoya basho, even 11-4 might have been enough!

That said, he has hit his current ceiling of 13-2 four times in Makuuchi so I'm not concerned about his ability to do that when it's needed.

[Eikokurai 3,433]

I’m curious: Why are people more interested in seeing a Hakuho zensho than a Terunofuji zensho? Nobody even seems to be mentioning the ‘Z’ word in the same breath as the Ozeki’s name, at least not explicitly (it’s implied if he meets Hakuho 14-0 and then wins). For me, that would be much more exhilarating than Hakuho doing what he’s done 15 times before. We haven’t seen anyone other than Hakuho, or a non-Yokozuna, zensho since Goeido almost five years ago in Sept 2016. It’s much rarer treasure.

Edited July 16, 2021 by Eikokurai

[Getayukata 119]

Just now, Eikokurai said:

I’m curious: Why are people more interested in seeing a Hakuho zensho than a Terunofuji zensho? Nobody even seems to be mentioning the ‘Z’ word in the same breath as the Ozeki’s name, at least not explicitly (it’s implied if he meets Hakuho 14-0 and then wins). For me, that would be much more exhilarating than Hakuho doing what he’s done 15 times before. We haven’t seen anyone other than Hakuho, or a non-Yokozuna zensho, since Goeido almost five years ago in Sept 2016. It’s much rarer treasure.

Surely a zensho yusho by a 36 year old Yokozuna is a very rare event? And one that is not likely to happen again any time soon. 

[Eikokurai 3,433]

Just now, Getayukata said:

Surely a zensho yusho by a 36 year old Yokozuna is a very rare event? And one that is not likely to happen again any time soon. 

You say that like it's any 36 year old! It's Hakuho.

[Tsuchinoninjin 1,244]

5 hours ago, Kotogouryuu said:

I hated Terunofuji back then for that henka. But I do understand now he was already injured then and was desperate to save his own skin. His comeback has been admirable, and do like how he has shaped his sumo to suit his current state. Look at his legs, how carefully he positions them and uses leverage to the best of his ability while avoiding further injury. Him getting the rope now would be a very good story, and I like stories.

That said, if I've noticed how he tries to get the left leg to the front, surely Hakuho has, as well. It's going to be hard to Terunofuji to beat him. But I'm very excited to see the match.

I'm 100% sure that that henka was payback for this

http://www.youtube.com/embed/AGY0QL1S6EE?start=625&autoplay=1

Everyone who talks about the Terunofuji henka always leaves out the fact Kotoshogiku henka'd him first

Edited July 16, 2021 by Tsuchinoninjin

[Eikokurai 3,433]

19 minutes ago, Tsuchinoninjin said:

Everyone who talks about the Terunofuji henka always leaves out the fact Kotoshogiku henka'd him first

That was barely a henka. I had to watch it twice to find it.

[Getayukata 119]

3 minutes ago, Eikokurai said:

You say that like it's any 36 year old! It's Hakuho.

So? Not even Hakuho the GOAT can hold off Father Time indefinitely, and one senses that it's now or never for him to zensho, or even to get another yusho. His recovery from the knee surgery seems little short of  miraculous to me - I never expected him to last this long this basho- and I guess I'd just like to see one last hurrah before retirement. Terunofuji will have other chances to win, and indeed may well win this basho. 

Being old myself,  I guess I just like to see a good oldie still able to beat younger opponents (I really wanted Federer to win Wimbledon too, but that didn't happen! ) I'm keeping all my fingers and toes crossed that this one does.

[Tsuchinoninjin 1,244]

Just now, Eikokurai said:

That was barely a henka. I had to watch it twice to find it.

Even the yellow text said it was a henka, so I rest my case.

[Eikokurai 3,433]

Just now, Tsuchinoninjin said:

Even the yellow text said it was a henka, so I rest my case.

Actually, it said "mini-henka" but Kintamayama, for all his awesomeness, is not the final arbiter of henka. Haha. That was a henka-non-henka at best, but for me there was plenty of contact.

[Eikokurai 3,433]

11 minutes ago, Getayukata said:

So? Not even Hakuho the GOAT can hold off Father Time indefinitely, and one senses that it's now or never for him to zensho, or even to get another yusho. His recovery from the knee surgery seems little short of  miraculous to me - I never expected him to last this long this basho- and I guess I'd just like to see one last hurrah before retirement. Terunofuji will have other chances to win, and indeed may well win this basho. 

Being old myself,  I guess I just like to see a good oldie still able to beat younger opponents (I really wanted Federer to win Wimbledon too, but that didn't happen! ) I'm keeping all my fingers and toes crossed that this one does.

Fair enough. I get that. But for me personally, I'm not that bothered about age, especially when the athlete in question clearly still has the skills. Age only becomes of interest to me when it's, say, some rikishi whose spent 15 years in Makushita finally making his Juryo debut in his 30s. There's romance there. I find it hard to get excited about the winningest Yokozuna of all time winning again. If he was 40, maybe. I'd also like to see Terunofuji beat Hakuho as a mark of the 'changing of the guard'. There's symbolism there.

[Tsuchinoninjin 1,244]

16 minutes ago, Eikokurai said:

Actually, it said "mini-henka" but Kintamayama, for all his awesomeness, is not the final arbiter of henka. Haha. That was a henka-non-henka at best, but for me there was plenty of contact.

My case is resting a few posts up.