Kintamayama

Nagoya Basho 2021

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5 hours ago, Jakusotsu said:

And yet another botched call by Nishikido after the Kitaharima-Ichiki mono-ii. Pathetic. :-S

I'm not sure whom I want to see retire first, Nishikido oyakata or the current Shikimori Inosuke.  

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17 minutes ago, Seiyashi said:

To necro something from yesterday, this is how Gaga looks now (tweet courtesy of Abema):

 

So I am now completely confused why commentators wear masks during broadcasts.  The photo shows Abema TV commentator Takahashi Daisuke with guest commentator Gagamaru, both massless, standing well within the recommended social distancing guidelines ... with no plexiglass barrier.  

How is a TV broadcast all that different than a Tweet (other than this was a personal rather than corporate release)?  They are both meant for public consumption.  I sure hope Takahashi doesn't lose his job over this...  I know what he was thinking, but it sends the wrong message in the midst of a pandemic.

The "NIKONGO wakaranai" (i.e., I don't know JAPINESE) line is priceless.  Gotta love Gagamaru!

Edited by Amamaniac
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2 hours ago, Ichimawashi said:

If they stand up and do nothing once, it's a matta.  If they do it again, it's on.  That makes a lot of sense to someone.  No idea who though.

Tobizaru attempting to create a new kimarite: ghandikiri, win by non-violence!

Yeah I always thought you could stand as far back from the shikiri-sen  as you like and as long as you touch down together, it's on. Don't know why that was called a matta. 

Edited by ryafuji

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27 minutes ago, Amamaniac said:

How is a TV broadcast all that different than a Tweet (other than this was a personal rather than corporate release)?  They are both meant for public consumption.  I sure hope Takahashi doesn't lose his job over this...  I know what he was thinking, but it sends the wrong message in the midst of a pandemic.

I think the reasoning was that it was a one-off, temporary promotion shot and as long as talking was kept to a minimum, that relatively transient contact wouldn't matter. After all, they'd be spending some time in relatively close proximity. If either of them had really been infected, plexiglass and masks wouldn't have been a surefire way to stop it either.

Sure, it was a risk. But I think pandemic fatigue has set in enough that it's considered a small risk to take to connect with your public; smiles aren't something you can really see through a mask. I take the point about it not being a great message to send, but then arguably Asanoyama and Ryuden did way more damage in this regard.

30 minutes ago, Amamaniac said:

The "NIKONGO wakaranai" (i.e., I don't know JAPINESE) line is priceless.  Gotta love Gagamaru!

So that's what it was. I was wondering if my katakana reading had let me down again as I couldn't parse it worth a damn.

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2 minutes ago, ryafuji said:
2 hours ago, Ichimawashi said:

If they stand up and do nothing once, it's a matta.  If they do it again, it's on.  That makes a lot of sense to someone.  No idea who though.

Tobizaru attempting to create a new kimarite: ghandikiri, win by non-violence!

Yeah I always thought you could stand as far back from the shikiri as you like and as long as you touch down together, it's on. Don't know why that was called a matta. 

It's not the first time that stand up tachiais have been "accidentally" called matta. Enho had a couple IIRC that were also doubtful whether they were on or if it was matta. Might have something to do with the fact that most tachiais actually aim to make contact: if both rikishi don't make any inclination to do so there is doubt whether they meant to stand up together (literally tachi-ai), or whether they wanted to charge forward but thought the other wasn't ready and stood up simultaneously as a result, since standing up from the crouch is also a matta when unilateral.

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56 minutes ago, Seiyashi said:

To necro something from yesterday, this is how Gaga looks now (tweet courtesy of Abema). The tweet also mentions that he has gone from 220kg to 155kg with a successful diet.

Well done Gaga! He even has his shirt tucked into his jeans. Very bold! As a 120kg fatty I still opt for the 90's untucked button-up shirt look popularised by Oasis et al.

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Hakuho’s inner thought after Tobizaru called the mid-match timeout: can we please get on with it, I have an Olympics to open in less than two weeks…

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From Day 1 of this tournament, plenty of fans probably thought that former Komusubi Abi would walk away with the Juryo championship, and that very much looks like it will be the case.  Today, Hakuyozan withdrew after being injured in his Day 6 loss to Yutakayama.  The way things are going, we could end up seeing Abi (at the bottom of the Juryo Division) face off against Yutakayama (at the top) which could be decisive in deciding the Juryo yusho.

Moreover, it is quite sad to review the ring names of wrestlers who've withdrawn from Juryo this month:

Ryuden: slapped with a suspension for disregarding NSK's COVID protocols (not to mention basic contraception)

Akiseyama: slapped so hard in May that his jaw broke

Hakuyozan: Juryo champion from March 2021 & co-leader after five days in this tournament knocked out of the tournament due to injury

I call that "a pretty mixed bag of disappointment".

 

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6 minutes ago, Ichimawashi said:

Hakuho’s inner thought after Tobizaru called the mid-match timeout: can we please get on with it, I have an Olympics to open in less than two weeks…

My first version of Hakuho's thoughts at this point: "You know what Sunny Jim, I might delay my retirement for a while so I get a chance to straighten you out".

My second version of Hakuho's thoughts at this point: "Awwwh, I'm getting too old for this sh*t".

Edited by Tigerboy1966
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I cannot decide if Tobizaru was simply overcome by the occasion, or the NSK decided to have a laugh by having Shonanzakura don a Tobizaru suit...

It was funny at first, a little like Takakeisho's first bout against the GOAT, but it went on too long for my liking. Maybe the gyoji or head shimpan ought to have the option of calling a fusensho loss on rikishi that refuse to engage for more than 10 seconds.

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1 hour ago, Seiyashi said:

To necro something from yesterday, this is how Gaga looks now (tweet courtesy of Abema). The tweet also mentions that he has gone from 220kg to 155kg with a successful diet.

Thanks for that.  I had gone looking for a recent photo of him & come up empty. He does look healthy & happy.

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What an incredibly unique bout between Hakuho and Tobizaru. I guess Tobizaru was proved right about his approach when Hakuho finally got a hold of his belt and then decided he doesn't want Tobizaru in the ring anymore. As Tobizaru you'd better come up with something tactically clever against the man if you want to have a chance.

I was actually thinking earlier that this is why Hokutofuji has a hard time against wrestlers like Terunofuji and Hakuho (he lost to both of them) because he has a very "honest" style of sumo. He just wants to come at you and outclass you. And that's hard against these guys who are bigger and stronger and have enough experience to not give an opening away for free.

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52 minutes ago, RabidJohn said:

I cannot decide if Tobizaru was simply overcome by the occasion, or the NSK decided to have a laugh by having Shonanzakura don a Tobizaru suit...

It was funny at first, a little like Takakeisho's first bout against the GOAT, but it went on too long for my liking. Maybe the gyoji or head shimpan ought to have the option of calling a fusensho loss on rikishi that refuse to engage for more than 10 seconds.

How do they decide who is refusing to engage in a situation like that? People are pinning it on Tobizaru because he’s the junior rank seen to be avoiding a fight with the Yokozuna, but Hakuho can take the initiative too. It’s not all on his aite. 

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I want to know what happened in Tobizaru's mind that made him snap and suddenly decide that jumping on migi-yotsu was a good idea after spending 2 minutes enraging the bull in a standoff. Might as well have worn a red mawashi for this one.

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22 minutes ago, Eikokurai said:

How do they decide who is refusing to engage in a situation like that? People are pinning it on Tobizaru because he’s the junior rank seen to be avoiding a fight with the Yokozuna, but Hakuho can take the initiative too. It’s not all on his aite. 

Agreed. Hakuho has always taken pleasure at beating people at their own games to show them who's boss. Hardly hinkaku at best, but entertaining for sure.

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36 minutes ago, Eikokurai said:

How do they decide who is refusing to engage in a situation like that? People are pinning it on Tobizaru because he’s the junior rank seen to be avoiding a fight with the Yokozuna, but Hakuho can take the initiative too. It’s not all on his aite. 

If it came down to it, it's clearly Hakuho who was waiting for the other to engage while Tobi was trying to edge in and find some chink in the armour to leverage. It was Tobiazru's decision to start the bout from the front row of seats and to avoid an initial grapple but he was certainly showing (misguided) initiative.

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8 minutes ago, nagora said:

If it came down to it, it's clearly Hakuho who was waiting for the other to engage while Tobi was trying to edge in and find some chink in the armour to leverage. It was Tobiazru's decision to start the bout from the front row of seats and to avoid an initial grapple but he was certainly showing (misguided) initiative.

Yes, that’s fair. Hakuho took the stance that it’s the other guy’s duty to come to him, as he did in that bout against Takakeisho. Tobizaru was clearly trying to find a way back in, just one that worked for him. So arguably if we’re penalizing rikishi for not engaging, Hakuho would get the disqualification.

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5 minutes ago, Eikokurai said:
16 minutes ago, nagora said:

If it came down to it, it's clearly Hakuho who was waiting for the other to engage while Tobi was trying to edge in and find some chink in the armour to leverage. It was Tobiazru's decision to start the bout from the front row of seats and to avoid an initial grapple but he was certainly showing (misguided) initiative.

Yes, that’s fair. Hakuho took the stance that it’s the other guy’s duty to come to him, as he did in that bout against Takakeisho. Tobizaru was clearly trying to find a way back in, just one that worked for him. So arguably if we’re penalizing rikishi for not engaging, Hakuho would get the disqualification.

The net effect of that is to penalise rikishi who have more reactive/defensive styles, though, and that will be disproportionately yotsu wrestlers (has anyone ever seen a defensive oshi wrestler? Legit question: I'm curious as to what that sort of style would look like). I don't know if anyone in the sectors that matter are making noise about the prevalence of oshi at the expense of yotsu, but if they are, a hypothetical non-engagement rule like the one we are discussing would only serve to favour oshi wrestlers even more.

Edited by Seiyashi

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For the record @Seiyashi, I don’t think anyone should be penalized. There’s room in sumo for all styles and bouts can be fought a number of ways. That’s part of its appeal.

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10 minutes ago, Eikokurai said:

For the record @Seiyashi, I don’t think anyone should be penalized. There’s room in sumo for all styles and bouts can be fought a number of ways. That’s part of its appeal.

Yes, I didn't understand you to suggest that a rule in fact should be instituted, but felt it would be interesting to explore some of the implications of such a rule should it hypothetically exist.

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Hakuho - Tobizaru was the most I've laughed in a while. Hakuho looked amused too.  Very good night of matches. Not a lot of slipping or falling. 

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2 hours ago, lackmaker said:

What, you wanted to give them both a loss?

Aye, fair enough. Maybe I didn't consider the implications, but for me it was clear that Tobizaru was the rikishi who was having difficulty bringing himself to engage.

Hakuho has had a reactive style for years; he lets his aite come at him and then deals with the situation. But yeah, maybe he should take the initiative when his aite seems incapable.

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4 hours ago, Seiyashi said:

To necro something from yesterday, this is how Gaga looks now (tweet courtesy of Abema). The tweet also mentions that he has gone from 220kg to 155kg with a successful diet.

So Gagamaru actually put on weight post retirement from his 199kg

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9 hours ago, Kaikitsune Makoto said:

Enho’s body has seen a lot of awkward positions in sumo. Durability tests one after another. Not just the position his body is in  but the fact that it is combined with often tremendous pressure makes his sumo look quite dangerous. He has had his share of injuries but could have had much more. Today he was again in desperate position against Wakamotoharu losing the nage battle but hung on until the end. Even looked like it was 50-50 who touched down first.

Reminded me of the bout between EnDO and Terunofuji last tournament.  In that instance, EnDO's wildly swinging mage somehow managed NOT to swipe the surface of the dohyo as much as Terunofuji fans hoped it had.  

The slow motion replays of the Wakamotoharu v. EnHO bout showed EnHO's mage making contact with the dirt.  Can't say I've seen too many mage top knot rulings (that is one of the first, for me).  Makes one appreciate the difference between oozumo and mage-less ama(teur) sumo!

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