Seiyashi

Asanoyama caught violating COVID restrictions

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3 hours ago, Millwood said:

Maybe this has already been figured out - do the six bashos include dropping out of Natsu? or are they the next six?

Logically it would be the next 6 basho since the Natsu basho ended before the punishment was announced, and they wouldn't make it retroactive.

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3 hours ago, Kintamayama said:

As soon as the page loads, a quick control a and control c, open your word processor and hit control v. In a few seconds you have your own version. Have to be quick, the first two moves. 

Holy Moti, it works!

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I usually go the print view as soon as the page loads and whatever was displayed at the time remains visible on the printing screen. Again, you have to do it at once before the paywall thing appears, but it generally displays text fast enough in that time and that’s all you need. You can even save it as a PDF.

Edited by Eikokurai

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6 hours ago, sumojoann said:
9 hours ago, Millwood said:

Maybe this has already been figured out - do the six bashos include dropping out of Natsu? or are they the next six?

Logically it would be the next 6 basho since the Natsu basho ended before the punishment was announced, and they wouldn't make it retroactive.

Well, compare Ryuden's case, where they did make it retroactive to Natsu because he was effectively serving a suspension then already. If they do intend to make it retrospective, they will make it explicit, otherwise it's safe to assume it's prospective and starts counting from Nagoya.

Edited by Seiyashi

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3 hours ago, Seiyashi said:

Well, compare Ryuden's case, where they did make it retroactive to Natsu because he was effectively serving a suspension then already. If they do intend to make it retrospective, they will make it explicit, otherwise it's safe to assume it's prospective and starts counting from Nagoya.

Yes, the 2 cases were handled differently because the circumstances were different.  If the intention was to make Asanoyama's punishment retroactive, they would have made that clear at the time the punishment was announced.

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I really don't understand how anyone could think that a basho for which he missed only four days could count as part of a six-basho suspension. 

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Oh yeah? Well, Asanoyama's mom doesn't understand why anyone could think that a basho for which her darling boy already missed four days wouldn't count as part of his six-basho suspension. 

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This is a long post, and slightly off topic, but it serves as an interesting comparison between Ozumo and the National Rugby League (NRL), the top-level Rugby League competition in Australia and one of the major spectator sporting leagues in the country, and their approach to COVID-19 violations.

Background

There is a recent outbreak in Sydney, New South Wales (NSW). Not at all to the levels of other nations but concerning for a country who has come through the pandemic thus-far largely unscathed. As a result, there is a NSW Public Health Order putting a hard limit on gatherings, think lockdown. The league has continued, with no spectators in games located in the area of concern. 

The Incident

This brings us to the incident -- after a win on Friday night, 13 players from the St George-Illawarra dragons were discovered to be having a house party (hosted by a senior player), in contravention of the Public Health Order and despite specifically being told by their club that there were to be no celebrations. For context, a team consists of 17 players on match day, and 30 in the top squad. So we're talking about 76% of the playing team, and 43% of the top squad. Included are senior players who have played at the highest representative levels, and players who have been in trouble for COVID-19 breaches and other matters before -- including one recently removed from a quite serious ongoing criminal matter (after 2-3 years, charges were dropped).

Police arrived at the house party after a noise complaint. It is then alleged a number of players hid or fled the residence, and then that a number of players gave or were involved in giving misleading information about the event during the NRL’s investigation into the breaches and that some of the players conspired to withhold key information from the NRL.

I think we'd all agree this rates as -- at best -- on par with the Asanoyama situation? 

The Punishments

Monetary fines

  • Total of AUD305,000 (JPY25,500,000), for an average of almost AUD24,000 (JPY2,000,000) per player (fines have been scaled based on culpability/salary level).
  • The player hosting the party (who has had a COVID-19 breach previously) is suspended 8 games (there are 24 games in a regular season, with up to 4 finals matches post-season). 
  • All other players are suspended one match.
    • Players serving one-match suspensions will be split across a minimum of two and a maximum of four rounds to ensure the Dragons have enough players available to field a squad each week. 

Conclusion

To bring this back to the purpose of the thread -- it's hard not to feel for Asanoyama when the above situation is arguably more egregious. I know we're comparing apples and oranges in sport and culture, but still. 

That said, I think the players mentioned above were let off far too easily.

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NFL and NBA players have been known to get slaps on the wrists for domestic violence cases. In a way yes, the punishment may be extreme. But at the same time, a few factors play into his punishment too:

- It's the JSA
- He was an ozeki, one step below yokozuna which is the elite of the elite
- He conspired with someone else to take steps not to be found out
- He did it several times
- He blatantly lied to JSA officials when questioned about it the first time
- The JSA believed him and defended him, which included accusations against the tabloids that their claims were unfounded
- The JSA was embarrassed when the allegations by the tabloids turned out to be true
- The JSA doesn't like to be proven wrong, most especially by the tabloids
- It's not the first time that top wrestlers committed these violations, there was an example that he had learned from but still thought he would be okay

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23 minutes ago, WAKATAKE said:

NFL and NBA players have been known to get slaps on the wrists for domestic violence cases. In a way yes, the punishment may be extreme. But at the same time, a few factors play into his punishment too:

- It's the JSA
- He was an ozeki, one step below yokozuna which is the elite of the elite
- He conspired with someone else to take steps not to be found out
- He did it several times
- He blatantly lied to JSA officials when questioned about it the first time
- The JSA believed him and defended him, which included accusations against the tabloids that their claims were unfounded
- The JSA was embarrassed when the allegations by the tabloids turned out to be true
- The JSA doesn't like to be proven wrong, most especially by the tabloids
- It's not the first time that top wrestlers committed these violations, there was an example that he had learned from but still thought he would be okay

Oh for what it's worth, I have no problem with the punishment, he knew what he was getting in to. I just find the juxtaposition interesting.

Also as an update to the above, the party host today has his contract terminated by his team.

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Not sure this was the best place to put it (it's not strictly on topic), but I didn't think it was significant enough to open a thread on its own and it had some tangential bearing to the topic, so here goes:

https://www.hokkoku.co.jp/articles/-/500025

Hokkoku news reports that Asanoyama's father, Yasushi Ishibashi, aged 64, passed away yesterday on the 16th of August. The cause of death is not revealed.

It's a pity that the last major incident of his son's sumo life was the disgrace of being suspended for a year. The last quote from him:

Time will tell if Asanoyama draws strength from this (in upholding promises to his father) or just collapses even worse.

Edited by Seiyashi
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Damn. I remember him proudly holding a camcorder in the crowd during his son's 10-5 makuuchi debut.

I seem to recall some Chris Sumo video that quoted an interview with him and he sounded really supportive and nurturing. And I mean supportive-supportive. Not "supportive" in the spartan sense, as often the case with sumo fathers.

edit: here we go

 

Edited by yohcun
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Posted (edited)

Asanoyama's suspension is over and he'll be eligible to compete again in Nagoya. 

How high does he re-ascend?

Edited by Kaninoyama

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Maybe you should start a poll for that.... 

He definitely returns to sanyaku. I don't know about ozeki and yokozuna though. He certainly has the skill but as someone mentioned in this thread, we legitly don't know what happens to a former ozeki who's egregiously broken his promise not to sully the rank. 

If he is forgiven by the powers that be - and that's a big if, then yokozuna may be a possibility eventually. Especially after Teru retires.

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Asashoryu approves.

 

Translation:

Next basho! It was a long time, wasn't it!?

As a sempai who received a half-year two-basho suspension myself, it's finally time to push, Asanoyama!

I'll be waiting.

 

 

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Is Asashoryu still playing charity football (soccer?). Asking for a friend.

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2 hours ago, Kaninoyama said:

Asanoyama's suspension is over and he'll be eligible to compete again in Nagoya. 

How high does he re-ascend?

I don't know where he will be in the banzuke but I'll bet not many of the first seven victims are going to be super excited about drawing him. I go out on a limb and predict a yusho.

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8 hours ago, Kaminariyuki said:

I don't know where he will be in the banzuke but I'll bet not many of the first seven victims are going to be super excited about drawing him. I go out on a limb and predict a yusho.

Surely the only real point of interest is whether kototebakari can put up anything against him. The kid looks really strong

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11 hours ago, Seiyashi said:

Maybe you should start a poll for that.... 

He definitely returns to sanyaku. I don't know about ozeki and yokozuna though. He certainly has the skill but as someone mentioned in this thread, we legitly don't know what happens to a former ozeki who's egregiously broken his promise not to sully the rank. 

If he is forgiven by the powers that be - and that's a big if, then yokozuna may be a possibility eventually. Especially after Teru retires.

If he puts up the numbers, it would be hard for them to justify denying him. His punishment was the suspension. If he’s expected to carry that the rest of his career, he may as well just quit.

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49 minutes ago, Yarimotsu said:

Surely the only real point of interest is whether kototebakari can put up anything against him. The kid looks really strong

It's not exactly unheard of that even very strong high school rookies will pick up an early loss against some random opponent in high sandanme, and I'm not sure he and Asanoyama will be ranked sufficiently close to each other to meet before that's likely to happen. (Leaving aside that it's just 50/50 whether they get to meet early on even if they are ranked close enough.)

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Well I predicted that Terunofuji would get no higher than upper makushita upon his comeback, so what do I know... but if he has the motivation, he could become a sanyaku regular at least. Ōzeki again might be quite a lot harder.

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If Terunofuji can make it back to Yokozuna after being injured, I don't see why Asanoyama can't.  He got 10 wins in every basho he completed as Ozeki as well as 4 tournaments before that.  That certainly looks like someone who can make Yokozuna.

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1 hour ago, Gurowake said:

If Terunofuji can make it back to Yokozuna after being injured, I don't see why Asanoyama can't.  He got 10 wins in every basho he completed as Ozeki as well as 4 tournaments before that.  That certainly looks like someone who can make Yokozuna.

It depends on how long Terunofuji stays around.  One thing I notice is that he's 0-3 against Hakuho, 1-2 against Kakuryu (and that win was against an injured Kakuryu on his way out of the Aki 2019 basho); more disturbingly, he's 0-5 against Terunofuji and only 4-5 against Takakeisho.  I think he can be a solid Ozeki you can be proud of, but to become a Yokozuna he'll have to show the killer instinct that Yokozuna have.  I don't think he's shown that.

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