Tochinoumi

Hibikiryu

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Reminds me a little bit of the Bill Masterton death. He got checked hard (but legally) during an NHL game and crumpled while hitting his head on the ice (in the days before mandatory helmets). Made it to a hospital, but eventually died of the brain injuries.

The guy who had the hit would later meet with Masterton's family, who said it was fluke accident and they didn't blame him. Despite that, he would say the incident was always in the back of his mind and "It bothers you the rest of your life."

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Small consolation for Hibikiryu's family, but a step in the right direction: The NSK is to hold a course on emergency response just before Natsu for gyoji, shimpan, doctors, and presumably other staff who will be in a position to respond to dohyo injuries.

This was planned since Shonnanoumi's concussion in January, and it's unfortunate that Hibikiryu's accident happened before the NSK could put this in place, but to be fair it's also not immediately clear that there was a causal relationship between the dismal handling of Hibikiryu's injury and his subsequent death from embolism. To be clear, I don't think the fact that a causal mechanism can't be established absolves the NSK entirely of blame; they must still take some flak for their handling, but it is also possible that Hibikiryu may have died even if the emergency response had been unimpeachable, so that might just take a little of the fault off the NSK.

 

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You know the part that hurts me the most? The report that he was recovering some of his movement back. Can't imagine how relieved and happy he must've felt when it seemed a recovery was possible - even if partial - and then, boom.

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2 hours ago, Koorifuu said:

You know the part that hurts me the most? The report that he was recovering some of his movement back. Can't imagine how relieved and happy he must've felt when it seemed a recovery was possible - even if partial - and then, boom.

This is eerily similar to the case of Derrick Thomas, one of the greatest defensive linemen in NFL history.  He was paralyzed from the chest down after a car accident in January 2000.  Two weeks later, while being transferred by wheelchair to a treatment room, he complained that he didn't feel well, and died within seconds of a pulmonary embolism which had traveled from his legs.

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Sharing the common feelings of sadness & frustration about the situation.(Brokenheart...) Eventho this forum doesn't reach the family, my condolences are with them...

But I have to say that this has collected surprisingly much of international attention. I have NEVER seen ANY sumo related news in Finnish newspapers/ -sites. Unfortunately Hibikiryu's destiny was finally the one topic, which made it thru...:-(

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On 29/04/2021 at 21:59, Midoriyama said:

Truly horrible RIP Hibikiryu. On the other hand I don't agree with all of you putting blame on NHK/JSA for his death. I agree they have ancient and inadequate way of handling injuries and that need to be addressed ASAP but their late response is not the reason of Hibikiryu's death at all.

That’s all anyone has said. I haven’t seen anybody blame the JSA for his death, only say that their ancient and inadequate way of handling injuries needs to be addressed.

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This is so sad and I always start crying when I think about it.

After his accident I stopped watching the basho and I don't think I will be able to watch the next one.

I thought there should be a huge uproar in the media to put pressure on the NSK and kept looking up for news on that

This morning I came across this petition, I hope this time the NSK will really take the right steps to improve their medical care process

https://www.change.org/p/injuries-sustained-by-rikishi-on-the-dohyo-must-be-handled-more-effectively-by-the-nippon-sumo-kyokai?cs_tk=Aj37yarlXQV_R7EmkmAAAXicyyvNyQEABF8BvGLF1DXXDaPXw34Kekt3LcQ%3D&utm_campaign=5b6f466deff14a45a4f535685576bcef&utm_content=initial_v0_0_1&utm_medium=email&utm_source=petition_signer_receipt_welcome&utm_term=cs

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Decision reached- from Natsu and on, when a rikishi is injured and is incapacitated in some form, the winner will only be declared (kachinanori) "after the injured rikishi is seen to and receives full medical attention."

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I know this is not much more than a cosmetic change, but I think it will go a long way to fix the problem. Forcing a pause in the action should keep people from standing around looking clueless, which aggravates the sense of incompetence.

Now, they just need to fix the incompetence...

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By stopping all activities other than those to ensure the safety of the injured rikishi, attention will be concentrated where it is needed, instead of elsewhere ignoring/belittling the emergency.

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Shit happens.  There are two options.  Bring life to an end until the mess gets cleaned up, or continue living while the same person cleans up the mess.  All you need is a good cleaning crew.

Edited by Asojima

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1 hour ago, Asojima said:

Shit happens.  There are two options.  Bring life to an end until the mess gets cleaned up, or continue living while the same person cleans up the mess.  All you need is a good cleaning crew.

It's a bit crass to refer to an injured wrestler as "the mess". Forcing all proceedings to halt until the wrestler is taken care of at least ensures they'll do their best to get help as quickly as possible.

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2 hours ago, orandashoho said:

By stopping all activities other than those to ensure the safety of the injured rikishi, attention will be concentrated where it is needed, instead of elsewhere ignoring/belittling the emergency.

The pessimistic in me thinks instead of calling the winner and then watching for 2 minutes if the guy can get up by himself, we will now have the winner, gyoji and juges just stand still for 2 minutes waiting to see if the guy can get up by himself (then maybe have 2 yobidashi attend the injured rikishi, then maybe a doctor) and then call the winner. 

Correct me if I'm wrong, but it seems the sumo culture is to give the opportunity to the downed rikishi to get up by himself to not look weak. That leads to exemples like Kizakiumi or Shonannoumi where help is needed, but everyone just watches from afar pretending everything is fine giving him time to recuperate. That would need to change too, IMHO.

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2 hours ago, Asojima said:

Shit happens.  There are two options.  Bring life to an end until the mess gets cleaned up, or continue living while the same person cleans up the mess.  All you need is a good cleaning crew.

Your jungle cat avatar is edgier than your ape avatar.

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On 08/05/2021 at 23:34, Oortael said:

The pessimistic in me thinks instead of calling the winner and then watching for 2 minutes if the guy can get up by himself, we will now have the winner, gyoji and juges just stand still for 2 minutes waiting to see if the guy can get up by himself (then maybe have 2 yobidashi attend the injured rikishi, then maybe a doctor) and then call the winner. 

Correct me if I'm wrong, but it seems the sumo culture is to give the opportunity to the downed rikishi to get up by himself to not look weak. That leads to exemples like Kizakiumi or Shonannoumi where help is needed, but everyone just watches from afar pretending everything is fine giving him time to recuperate. That would need to change too, IMHO.

This is why we should have a doctor and medical personnel familiar with traumas present. Only they can assess properly whether a rikishi requires immediate aid or can be left to stand up by himself without incurring further damage.

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On 09/05/2021 at 04:45, Asojima said:

Shit happens.  There are two options.  Bring life to an end until the mess gets cleaned up, or continue living while the same person cleans up the mess.  All you need is a good cleaning crew.

With comments like this I wonder how you have accrued reputation credits. A young man is dead. 

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7 hours ago, specialweek 2 said:

... A young man is dead. 

and the kyokai's announced response is that they will now sit quietly and wait for an injury situation to resolve itself.  A better reaction might be to upgrade their injury response capabilities and procedures.

Edited by Asojima

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I can speak only for Germany, but at any event this size, having at least some paramedics on site, would be a no-brainer and in many cases obligatory. The main focus would lay on the audience, but no medic would say "oh, i'm only here for the spectators". When it comes to sports events, medics on site become even less a no-brainer.

We tend to forget, that something we treat as absolutely normal, is unheard of in others regions on this planet. Did you non-germans know, that you have to attend a 7,5 hour first-aid-training to get a driver's license?

- companies, starting at two (2!) employees NEED a designated first responder! If your employer assigns you to be first responder, you have no right to reject this! So, here's your 9-hour-training.

- if your company has 20+ employess, 5% of the office personnel and 10% of your production/construction site personnel, have to be first responders.

Plus you have to refresh those courses every 2nd year.

And there's more. The whole german system of paramedics, fire firefighters, emergency management, life guards and so on, depends on civilian volunteers. This country can't function without them. So millions of people get these courses every year. 

I wonder how other countries treat that matter.

And for me, with a background in voluntary service with various of these civil aid agencies, it's even more appaling, how injuries on the dohyo are treated. My education just urges me to go in "ALL HANDS ON DECK"-mode, when someone is in dire need for medical help.

Mods feel free to split this into a second thread.

 

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Those of you who watched the Denmark-Finland game last night will have seen the player Christian Eriksen collapse after a cardiac arrest and be immediately assisted. He was given CPR on the pitch and the match was suspended. Thankfully, he regained consciousness and is now stable in hospital.

That’s how you respond to a medical crisis. I shudder to think what would happen to a rikishi suffering a similar emergency.

https://www.theguardian.com/football/2021/jun/12/denmark-v-finland-match-suspended-after-christian-eriksen-collapses

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12 hours ago, Eikokurai said:

Those of you who watched the Denmark-Finland game last night will have seen the player Christian Eriksen collapse after a cardiac arrest and be immediately assisted. He was given CPR on the pitch and the match was suspended. Thankfully, he regained consciousness and is now stable in hospital.

That’s how you respond to a medical crisis. I shudder to think what would happen to a rikishi suffering a similar emergency.

https://www.theguardian.com/football/2021/jun/12/denmark-v-finland-match-suspended-after-christian-eriksen-collapses

I had exactly the same thoughts as I read this story. It just boggles my mind that the sumo authorities do not have doctors ringside all the time a basho is on. Having to wait 3 or 4 minutes for a doctor to appear may be too long in the worst case scenario.

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