Natsu basho 2021

[Godango 956]

Sorry for the spam, emotions.

Good for the yusho race I guess, but what a ridiculous call. That was inconclusive at best and certainly had no part in the win. Really feeling for Terunofuji right now, what an awful way to lose the streak.

*In no way influenced by the fact that this cost me my bench bout.

[Kaninoyama 1,649]

1 minute ago, Godango said:

Well that is an outrageous decision, in my book.

On the slow motion replay the hair grab was clearly evident. 

[Rocks 1,801]

Was that a hair pull? I think so. Was it any factor in Terunifuji's winning? Not at all. Right, but bad call IMO.

[Eikokurai 3,433]

What happened? Teru disqualified?

[Godango 956]

Just now, Kaninoyama said:

On the slow motion replay the hair grab was clearly evident. 

I can buy the argument that the hand slipped from the back of the head to the mage, but Myogiryu was dead body by then and it was clearly incidental/innocuous.

[Seiyashi 4,068]

1 minute ago, Kaninoyama said:

3 minutes ago, Godango said:

Well that is an outrageous decision, in my book.

On the slow motion replay the hair grab was clearly evident. 

Hansoku for a hairpull is any part of the mage, right? Because I could swear I saw the end of Meisei's topknot still flapping around, and was wondering how that could be called as a hairpull.

For the Xth basho, Takakeisho v Terunofuji becomes the clincher bout of the basho.

[Eikokurai 3,433]

Maybe the shimpan heard about the Asanoyama scandal and thought they’d distract us with a kinjite/hansoku outrage instead.

Edited May 19, 2021 by Eikokurai

[Seiyashi 4,068]

1 minute ago, Eikokurai said:

What happened? Teru disqualified?

Yes, for hairpull.

1 minute ago, Godango said:

I can buy the argument that the hand slipped from the back of the head to the mage, but Myogiryu was dead body by then and it was clearly incidental/innocuous.

I don't think the fact that Myogiryu was dying by then affects the call of the hairpull as that's a violation of the rules outright. The only time a foul is ignored if it's the losing party who committed it, like possibly with the Terunofuji v Takayasu bout a few days ago.

[Godango 956]

Just now, Seiyashi said:

Hansoku for a hairpull is any part of the mage, right? Because I could swear I saw the end of Meisei's topknot still flapping around, and was wondering how that could be called as a hairpull.

For the Xth basho, Takakeisho v Terunofuji becomes the clincher bout of the basho.

Oh in that case I may have to eat my words, I thought it was for pulling the topknot specifically. If it's any part of the hair then I guess that's not so egregious a decision after all, but I still feel for him.

[Rocks 1,801]

The looks Terunofuji is throwing are priceless. He really didn't like that call.

[Karasukurai 165]

Terno really pissed, I feel sorry for Onosho tomorrow.

[Seiyashi 4,068]

4 minutes ago, Godango said:

Oh in that case I may have to eat my words, I thought it was for pulling the topknot specifically. If it's any part of the hair then I guess that's not so egregious a decision after all, but I still feel for him.

My understanding of it is a closed-ish fist around any part of the topknot (basically where it's been gathered by the tokoyama) - or as Herutto puts it, if your hands get into the hair, keep your fingers straight. Hands on the back of head are legitimate and have been used multiple times without incident in things like hatakikomi. There have also been people who have gotten into trouble for tape sticking to the mage and giving the appearance of hairpull, even if there wasn't any actual leverage being exercised via the hair.

Edited May 19, 2021 by Seiyashi

[Eikokurai 3,433]

7 minutes ago, Rocks said:

The looks Terunofuji is throwing are priceless. He really didn't like that call.

He’s usually such a cheerful chap as well.

[Kaninoyama 1,649]

That was clearly a case of Terunofuji shooting himself in the foot. He didn't need the hair grab to win, and though it was surely wasn't intentional, it wasn't incidental, thus the hansoku. 

Edited May 19, 2021 by Kaninoyama

[Adil 232]

I'm going by memory here, so I hope one of you folks who remembers this better than me can throw some light on this: Up until a few years ago, in situations like this, it was a judgement call for the shimpan about whether the hair pull was intentional, or whether it was a case of the fingers getting stuck in the mage unintentionally. However, this was changed a few years ago and it was decided that in either case (intentional mage pull or fingers getting stuck in the mage unintentionally), a hansoku would be called. This was done to make the decision-making more objective (presumably). 

Does anybody remember this? 

[Eikokurai 3,433]

I’ve seen it now and I have no complaints. Yes, it didn’t affect the course of the bout, but it looks clear enough to me and the rules say nothing about impact on the result. It’s like a tackle from behind in football or roughing the QB in American football: it doesn’t matter if nobody got hurt, the ball was won cleanly or the pass was complete—you’re not allowed to do it regardless of outcome. Terunofuji only has himself to blame there.

[Jakusotsu 5,720]

Ever heard of palmar grasp reflex?

[Seiyashi 4,068]

1 minute ago, Jakusotsu said:

Ever heard of palmar grasp reflex?

Legitly, no. What's that?

EDIT: I think if Terunofuji were still 29 months old that would be a legitimate excuse...

Edited May 19, 2021 by Seiyashi

[MrGrumpyGills 114]

The palmar grasp reflex is found in infants, not in healthy adults.

"Sometimes the palmar reflex reappears in adults. This can occur after an ischemic stroke (a lack of blood flow to the brain) or a hemorrhagic stroke (bleeding in the brain). Both of these destroy brain cells. When the brain is damaged, the palmar reflex may return."
Source: https://www.healthline.com/health/baby/grasp-reflex

[Masunofuji 36]

48 minutes ago, Adil said:

I'm going by memory here, so I hope one of you folks who remembers this better than me can throw some light on this: Up until a few years ago, in situations like this, it was a judgement call for the shimpan about whether the hair pull was intentional, or whether it was a case of the fingers getting stuck in the mage unintentionally. However, this was changed a few years ago and it was decided that in either case (intentional mage pull or fingers getting stuck in the mage unintentionally), a hansoku would be called. This was done to make the decision-making more objective (presumably). 

Does anybody remember this? 

Doesn't seem to be the case:

 

[Seiyashi 4,068]

1 minute ago, Masunofuji said:

Doesn't seem to be the case:

This isn't a particularly good example: looking at 0:40 on, Daieisho's fingers were in Meisei's hair not his mage. The explanation afterwards also makes no mention of the mage whatsoever, so it doesn't answer Adil's question.

[Seregost 119]

I'm so happy Shohozan lost today. I'm just fed up with his matta games. OTOH, it looks like Chiyonoo is back in Makuuchi for the first time in four years. If Chiyonokuni doesn't drop to juryo (no idea if 0-15 from M3 is enough) that means five sekitori in the first division for Kokonoe beya, matching Oitekaze.

[RabidJohn 1,628]

Oh, that was unfortunate. Terunofuji had Myogiryu going over without any need for that risky hand on the back of his head. The hairpull when his hand slipped down was totally unintentional and had no bearing on the outcome, of course, but it still happened...
That must've been a very awkward mono-ii verdict for Isegahama-oyakata to deliver.

Is Asanoyama trying to master that reactive sumo (I forget its Japanese name) Taiho and Hakuho were so good at? He looks to me like he's letting his aite make their move then trying to deal with it. Given that he seems uninjured, I can think of no other reason for his apparently lacklustre tachi-ai.

I don't know if it was the COVID-kosho basho he sat out earlier this year that took my eye off Wakatakakage, but he is the real deal, isn't he? Rapidly becoming a new favourite for me. Only a matter of time before he surpasses his komusubi granddad from what I'm seeing.
I'm half-hoping he takes something less of a tongue-twister of a shikona when he does, though.

Is Akua intent on compounding the injuries to his double-whiplashed neck? He takes some of the most dreadful falls. Really makes me wince!

Edited May 19, 2021 by RabidJohn

[Seiyashi 4,068]

14 minutes ago, RabidJohn said:

Is Asanoyama trying to master that reactive sumo (I forget its Japanese name) Taiho and Hakuho were so good at? He looks to me like he's letting his aite make their move then trying to deal with it. Given that he seems uninjured, I can think of no other reason for his apparently lacklustre tachi-ai.

Gonosen-no-tachiai I believe it's called. He had flashes of it a few basho ago, but he has much bigger problems to worry about now.

14 minutes ago, RabidJohn said:

Is Akua intent on compounding the injuries to his double-whiplashed neck? He takes some of the most dreadful falls. Really makes me wince!

You won't want to hear about the 10 staples from the bicycle accident then...

15 minutes ago, RabidJohn said:

I'm half-hoping he takes something less of a tongue-twister of a shikona when he does, though.

I don't think so; the Waka prefix is from his granddad's Wakabayama shikona, and the rest of it is a set with his brothers, harking back to the Mori Motonari parable. Either they all change or none of them do.

[Amamaniac 2,078]

3 hours ago, Seiyashi said:

On the one hand it's great that he seems to be fighting more intelligently/better to take into account his injuries. On the other hand.... injuries.

If Enho had pulled out of this tournament on Day 2, when Ura wrenched his right arm (note too that he was already sporting an ankle injury), then chances would have been, that he would have dropped all the way out of the salaried Juryo Division.  

By staying in the tournament, he has not only been able to secure four wins (all while injured!) and on two occasions he took home some kensho prize money for his troubles.  I know many fans with legitimate concern for Enho's physical well-being would have preferred that he forget about the cruel reality and pressure of the banzuke system, and withdraw to lick his wounds.  But let's face it, that's not oozumo.  We are dealing with a deep-seeded mentality that injuries heal in the ring and that the best cure for an injury is winning a bout.  

In this particular case, Enho is defying our fears and fighting through his injuries (not to mention, getting results).  I for one marvel at his courage and determination.  Is it not possible that Enho knows his own body, and in consultation with Miyagino/Hakuho, feels that he is able to carry on?  Sure there is always pressure, but erring on the side of caution is not the Way of Sumo.

Edited May 19, 2021 by Amamaniac