Kakuryu to Retire

[Karasukurai 166]

I think I’ll choose to remember Kakuryu as the great champion he was despite physical limitations. He missed two basho in 2015 returning with a JY and then a Y; missed a basho in July 2016 getting a Y in November; missing four in 2017 returning with an 11-4 followed by two consecutive yusho; out at the end of 2018 and the start of 2019 then getting 10-5 followed by a JY then his 6^th Y; finally effectively out despite attempts to start from the Autumn of 2019 to the start of 2020 then returning with a JY.

Looking back, I think Kakuryu had an immense talent but his body wasn’t up to the rigours he demanded of it. Newcomers to sumo might think ill of Kakuryu but I urge you not to, he was a worthy Yokozuna.

[RabidJohn 1,855]

He was a yokozuna; he earned the rope, which is really all that needs to be said.
He attained the rank during Hakuho's supremacy, which was a stupendous achievement. It's unfair, however, to compare his results only with Hakuho's because Kakuryu wasn't a dai-yokozuna. So what? Few are, and none is Hakuho's peer.
That said, I believe he came a lot closer than Hakuho to the yokozuna ideal in terms of hinkaku - dignity, comportment, demeanour, and all that. 

I've been expecting him to retire ever since he attained Japanese citizenship late last year. I imagine the delay has been due to behind-the-scenes wheeling and dealing in the NHK about securing Kakuryu's long-term future. He'll have been after assurance that he won't be out on his arse when his five years as Kakuryu-oyakata are up.

[Asashosakari 19,653]

53 minutes ago, Karasukurai said:

I think I’ll choose to remember Kakuryu as the great champion he was despite physical limitations. He missed two basho in 2015 returning with a JY and then a Y; missed a basho in July 2016 getting a Y in November; missing four in 2017 returning with an 11-4 followed by two consecutive yusho; out at the end of 2018 and the start of 2019 then getting 10-5 followed by a JY then his 6^th Y; finally effectively out despite attempts to start from the Autumn of 2019 to the start of 2020 then returning with a JY.

Looking back, I think Kakuryu had an immense talent but his body wasn’t up to the rigours he demanded of it. Newcomers to sumo might think ill of Kakuryu but I urge you not to, he was a worthy Yokozuna.

I would say it was a pretty average rikishi career in terms of length. Let's not forget that Kakuryu was already 32 when he survived his first (and ultimately only) "do or die" basho in Hatsu 2018. Even if his career had ended then, he wouldn't have been especially young, both in terms of age and in time spent at the top of the pile - he had been a fixture in the high ranks since back in 2009, and getting around 10 prime years is fairly normal for yokozuna and strong ozeki. In any case, he managed to get another two decently effective years out of that 2018 revival and doubled his yusho count in the process, so I don't think there's any need to make him a "what might have been" case study.

Edited March 24, 2021 by Asashosakari

[Seiyashi 4,108]

2 hours ago, Asashosakari said:

I would say it was a pretty average rikishi career in terms of length. Let's not forget that Kakuryu was already 32 when he survived his first (and ultimately only) "do or die" basho in Hatsu 2018. Even if his career had ended then, he wouldn't have been especially young, both in terms of age and in time spent at the top of the pile - he had been a fixture in the high ranks since back in 2009, and getting around 10 prime years is fairly normal for yokozuna and strong ozeki. In any case, he managed to get another two decently effective years out of that 2018 revival and doubled his yusho count in the process, so I don't think there's any need to make him a "what might have been" case study.

Agreed. Kakuryu has 6 championships in total, which is bang on the median number of championships won by yokozuna; to have done that during Hakuho's career is doubly impressive. The "what might have been" is Kisenosato, not Kakuryu.

EDIT: Now that I think about it, if it's median and below average (6 vs 7.9) when counting ichidai-toshiyori-class yokozuna, Kakuryu definitely is above average. Taking out the 6 ichidai-toshiyori-class yokozuna (Taiho, Kitanoumi, Chiyonofuji, Takanohana, Asashoryu and Hakuho), the average non-ichidai-toshiyori-class yokozuna won 5.8 championships, and the median is 5. So Kakuryu definitely stacks up very favourably against his non-ichidai-toshiyori-class yokozuna peers.

Edited March 24, 2021 by Seiyashi

[ryafuji 815]

6 hours ago, robnplunder said:

That puts pressure on Hak to do the same unless he finds a fountain of youth.

I think the opposite actually. That the crocked Yokozuna with only 6 yusho is finally out of the picture will give the crocked Yokozuna with 44 yusho a bit more time to go on his own terms. 

[ryafuji 815]

4 hours ago, code_number3 said:

Sad to hear Kakuryu’s intai. Wish him get a permanent kabu and be successful oyakata

I'll be amazed if he doesn't end up with the Izutsu kabu at some point. 

[Eikokurai 3,437]

34 minutes ago, ryafuji said:

I think the opposite actually. That the crocked Yokozuna with only 6 yusho is finally out of the picture will give the crocked Yokozuna with 44 yusho a bit more time to go on his own terms. 

50 yusho exactly between them. I wonder if Kakuryu used to tell people "We Yokozuna have an average of 25 yusho each."

[Seiyashi 4,108]

7 hours ago, sahaven111 said:

except, i was planning on "Kakuryu Intai" to be my april fools day prank this year...

You can still go with "Hakuho intai" as the prank...

36 minutes ago, ryafuji said:

6 hours ago, robnplunder said:

That puts pressure on Hak to do the same unless he finds a fountain of youth.

I think the opposite actually. That the crocked Yokozuna with only 6 yusho is finally out of the picture will give the crocked Yokozuna with 44 yusho a bit more time to go on his own terms. 

It could go both ways. On the one hand, the YDC won't feel the need to tar Hakuho with the same brush as Kakuryu, and Hakuho has at least fought bouts and has the excuse of COVID kyujo. On the other hand, Kakuryu has now become the poster boy for "go before you are pushed harder", and Hakuho has the Magaki kabu so there's no need for any wheelin' and dealin' behind the scenes.

There's also the tactical dimension of whether Hakuho thinks the NSK and Hakkaku will back him before the YDC, and what Hakuho will choose to expend whatever goodwill he has with them on: the slim hope of an Olympic appearance as a yokozuna vs the possibility of being Hakuho oyakata and cashing in (maybe literally maybe metaphorically) on the value of the Magaki kabu or the favours that the eventual holder of it will owe him. Knowing Hakuho and human cognition, I suspect Hakuho will want to go for the Olympic appearance since he's pulled out all the stops to delay the inevitable - in for a penny, in for a pound.

[dada78641 884]

What a shame. I think Kakuryu was a fantastic wrestler and absolutely a worthy yokozuna, even at a time when his injuries prevented him from fighting anywhere close to his full strength. He's had problems for a long time, but whenever he was healthy enough to actually fight from start to finish he was always on the hunt for the yusho. Since 2018 he fought a full basho 8 times, winning three of them and coming in second place twice.

I was really hoping we could at least see him off with a final basho at decent health, but it looks like we were robbed of that. Maybe he personally decided that even if he waited for another basho, he'd just give a disappointing performance, or maybe the YDC decided he shouldn't be allowed the chance to begin with. Either way I was hoping for a better sendoff.

By the way: the first reply being "joyous day" is just beyond the pale. I don't know if it's a joke but that's an unsightly way to see off a great yokozuna who gave it his all for us for years.

[dada78641 884]

At least this gif of Kakuryu will never stop thrusting. Thanks for all the great matches!

[Rocks 1,809]

Well, I guess we know what the YDC were going to recommend eh? It's past time for sure. But Congrats to him. He had a great career. I wish him the best in retirement. 

I am a little surprised he is staying on though. The other retired Mongolian Yokozuna seemed to be doing well back home and I always thought Kakuryu would do the same but maybe with Covid and the uncertain economy the guaranteed income looks a bit better right now. I would not be surprised to see him leave in a couple years though.

Edited March 24, 2021 by Rocks

[Rocks 1,809]

As far as Hakuho I think if he can compete 15 days in July and put up a decent number he's fine until someone else manages to grab the rope. That being said I think he retires by the end of the year no matter what happens. 

[Seiyashi 4,108]

18 minutes ago, Rocks said:

I am a little surprised he is staying on though. The other retired Mongolian Yokozuna seemed to be doing back home and I always though Kakuryu would do the same but maybe with Covid and the uncertain economy the guaranteed income look a bit better right now. I would not be surprised to see him leave in a couple years though.

The only two previous Mongolian yokozuna left under circumstances which would have made it impossible for them to stay as oyakata whatever their wishes. Kakuryu is the first test case.

[since_94 650]

Not to start a flame war here, but I gotta say posts I’ve read today dissing Kakuryu after the accomplished career he’s had just make the posters come across as rubes. YMMV. But whatever, free speech. 

[Sumo Menko Man 13]

Sad to see, but not shocked. Believe Hakuho and Kakuryu were both holding out to be the top representatives of sumo during the Olympics and a point of pride for Mongolia.  With no foreign spectators coming now it didn’t make sense for Kakuryu to stay any longer and imagine he would have retired long ago had the Olympics been held last year. Would not be surprised to see Hakuho retire after the Olympics finish up this summer.  

[Asashosakari 19,653]

34 minutes ago, Rocks said:

I am a little surprised he is staying on though. The other retired Mongolian Yokozuna seemed to be doing back home and I always though Kakuryu would do the same but maybe with Covid and the uncertain economy the guaranteed income look a bit better right now. I would not be surprised to see him leave in a couple years though.

I've got pretty much the exact opposite take on that, in that I wouldn't be surprised if Kakuryu turns out to be a future NSK rijicho, not Hakuho as is usually anticipated. Kakuryu's demeanor just seems perfectly suited for a future "face of the company" role.

Edited March 24, 2021 by Asashosakari

[ryafuji 815]

19 minutes ago, since_94 said:

Not to start a flame war here, but I gotta say posts I’ve read today dissing Kakuryu after the accomplished career he’s had just make the posters come across as rubes. YMMV. But whatever, free speech. 

"Rube"? "YMMV"? I have no idea what you talking about.

[Seiyashi 4,108]

2 minutes ago, ryafuji said:

22 minutes ago, since_94 said:

Not to start a flame war here, but I gotta say posts I’ve read today dissing Kakuryu after the accomplished career he’s had just make the posters come across as rubes. YMMV. But whatever, free speech. 

"Rube"? "YMMV"? I have no idea what you talking about.

At the risk of adding fuel to the fire, YMMV means "your mileage may vary": essentially meaning two people can have reasonable but differing interpretations of the same observation.

I'm equally lost at "rubes" though; it looks like a typo to me.

[Rocks 1,809]

28 minutes ago, Seiyashi said:

The only two previous Mongolian yokozuna left under circumstances which would have made it impossible for them to stay as oyakata whatever their wishes. Kakuryu is the first test case.

 

14 minutes ago, Asashosakari said:

I've got pretty much the exact opposite take on that, in that I wouldn't be surprised if Kakuryu turns out to be a future NSK rijicho, not Hakuho as is usually anticipated. Kakuryu's demeanor just seems perfectly suited for a future "face of the company" role.

Forgot to include the word WELL in my original comment. Don't get me wrong. If he decided to spend the rest of his career in sumo I think he will do fine.  Although I seriously doubt either will ever be rijicho. I just think that he may find it financially more lucrative back in Mongolia eventually. 

[Hakuryuho 335]

I will always remain in awe of his technical aptitude and most importantly his incredible astuteness on the dohyo. 
Wishing him a very successful career as an Oyakata with hopefully many sekitori.
Godspeed Kakuryu!

[Eskbibs 77]

I was surprised at how surprised I was when I saw this on Kintamayama's video. No one can say that the intai wasn't expected, but now that it's actually happened...I find myself feeling rather sad. In my limited sumo experience, it seems like he's always been around as a kind of foil to Hakuho. Now he's left by himself on the lonely peaks of sumo.

[rzombie1988 159]

I think it was the right call.

[Seiyashi 4,108]

12 minutes ago, rzombie1988 said:

I think it was the right call.

For once I have to agree with you. He's dragged it a bit longer than he should have and arguably mildly besmirched the tail end of a very respectable career. But in the absence of outright being forced to retire, I think it will be forgotten with time, and he's shown himself to be a good mentor even while active.

[mikawa 1,794]

Otsukare-sama deshita!

[Yaochozuna 137]

Fare well, gentle yokozuna. Welcome, (hopefully) successful oyakata.