Koorifuu

Sandanme Tsukedashi = too low?

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1 hour ago, Gurowake said:

Generally in my recollection, school tournaments with knockout rounds are not seeded, only professionals or senior amateurs where there's enough meaningful data to compare them before the tournament starts.  There just aren't enough official school level events featuring a wide field to get a proper idea; once there are enough events, they become somewhat outdated as competitors are not nearly as static in ability when they're young compared to fully grown.

Thanks!  That seemed like the most likely case -- AmSumo isn't as highly developed, so there aren't enough events to establish a hierarchy.

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1 hour ago, Yamanashi said:

Thanks!  That seemed like the most likely case -- AmSumo isn't as highly developed, so there aren't enough events to establish a hierarchy.

I'm sorry, I guess I didn't word my response properly.  i was talking about sports in general, not Sumo.  I only assume it works the same for school-level sumo as it does for other games, though because of the short nature of the bouts, it's at least within reason that a good hierarchy could develop.  Still, it would become quickly outdated, and you can't have school kids constantly participating in tournaments.

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Nishikawa was disqualified for a hair pull in his seventh bout, resulting in his first loss and no yusho in Sandanme.  He beat his opponent Fukushima by hatakikomi, but a monoii was called.. "He came in much lower than I expected. I didn't notice that I did that and was wondering why the monoii was called.. It's frustrating but there is nothing I can say. We don't have that rule in amateur sumo.." he explained.

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On 20/03/2021 at 09:37, Koorifuu said:

I'll have to apologise to the poor lad for having jinxed him... He was 2-1 at the time of posting, that loss coming to his fellow TD.

Well it's been less than a year and Kanno/Nishikawa both look pretty solid.

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Kanno's started much faster than I expected. He's always had plenty of tricks, but was underpowered at times even vs smaller opponents in amasumo, and his first basho is more in line with what I had in mind. Fujiseiun is another surprise, even more so as he wasn't a notable college competitor at all. Nishikawa I expected to make a fast start with his powerful all out oshi (I think of him as half rikishi half boxer) but perhaps be more limited than Kanno in the long-run. Either way, they've both done well and should become sekitori. 

The track record of the Sd100TD starters is very solid so far isn't it. 

Now, I am hopeful that current college beast and reigning amateur yokozuna Daiki Nakamura (who has an Ms15TD but is unlikely to use it soon enough) turns pro when he graduates next year. Even being 2 years younger than Kanno, he handled him (and most opponents) like a child in high school and college. 193cm/175kg, with power, balance, and skill, in oshi and yotsu sumo.

Nakamura is the first in at least 20+ years to win all 3 major titles open to college competitors: amateur yokozuna, student yokozuna, and national sports festival champ. The only amateur rikishi who rivals him as a pro prospect is 2x high school yokozuna Tetsuya Ochiai, who was pretty much unbeatable in high school and just made the best 8 of the All Japan Championship, betting several much older competitors and earning an Sd100TD. He ended up losing to Nakamura....

Edited by Katooshu
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On 22/01/2022 at 02:23, Katooshu said:

Kanno's started much faster than I expected. He's always had plenty of tricks, but was underpowered at times even vs smaller opponents in amasumo, and his first basho is more in line with what I had in mind. Fujiseiun is another surprise, even more so as he wasn't a notable college competitor at all. Nishikawa I expected to make a fast start with his powerful all out oshi (I think of him as half rikishi half boxer) but perhaps be more limited than Kanno in the long-run. Either way, they've both done well and should become sekitori.

Two months later and Nishikawa looks poised to have his go at it on a daily basis, sporting an oichomage and a coloured mawashi. Let's see how it goes, he recovered pretty well from that wall-hitting minor injury.

Kanno hit the wall pretty softly on what was (IMO of course) a particularly tough high-makushita bunch, with plenty of promising up'n'comers and motivated veterans at their peaks. His progress has suffered a setback but he still looks healthy enough. At his age, the clock is ticking a bit.

Fujiseiun on the other hand hit his second small makekoshi at ms8 - not too inferior to the two mentioned above, but a wider gap would've been expected.

On 22/01/2022 at 02:23, Katooshu said:

The track record of the Sd100TD starters is very solid so far isn't it. 

Hatsuyama cut it reaaaally close, with his 5th win coming in senshuraku. But - having read many of your recent posts - you said he was the most underwhelming so far anyway.

The streak of 5+ wins on debut for all sandanme tsukedashi is alive and well, but its concurring streak of 5+ wins on their second basho is in danger. Granted one of Hatsuyama's losses was against fellow tsukedashi Kanzaki, but still.

On 22/01/2022 at 02:23, Katooshu said:

Now, I am hopeful that current college beast and reigning amateur yokozuna Daiki Nakamura (who has an Ms15TD but is unlikely to use it soon enough) turns pro when he graduates next year. Even being 2 years younger than Kanno, he handled him (and most opponents) like a child in high school and college. 193cm/175kg, with power, balance, and skill, in oshi and yotsu sumo.

Nakamura is the first in at least 20+ years to win all 3 major titles open to college competitors: amateur yokozuna, student yokozuna, and national sports festival champ. The only amateur rikishi who rivals him as a pro prospect is 2x high school yokozuna Tetsuya Ochiai, who was pretty much unbeatable in high school and just made the best 8 of the All Japan Championship, betting several much older competitors and earning an Sd100TD. He ended up losing to Nakamura....

What are both men's current views into coming to ozumo? We've had Hidetora Hanada's recent example of someone who's truly gifted and yet got his heart somewhere else, I'm not taking anything for granted anymore.

-----------

I'll need to update this thread with recent developments next week or so - won't have time until then...

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