Kintamayama

YDC meeting after Haru 2021

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4 hours ago, Kintamayama said:

Granted, the YDC is supposed to be toothless, but if they go so far as to give the dreaded "intai recommendation" as they had threatened in November, I don't think the Kyokai can totally ignore it. 

I don’t think they’d want to ignore it considering they’re choosing to convene the oldsters.

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The whole Yokozuna situation makes me very sad.

I completely understood Kakuryu holding out until he attained citizenship; but now I feel he's hindering rather than helping himself.  He (in my opinion) has the makings of a great Oyakata, particularly on the political/executive side of things.

Hakuho I emotionally want to give every chance in the world to return based on his remarkable achievements, but it's hard to deny at this point that his body is no longer up to the rigours of Yokozuna level sumo. I'm especially sad for him as, if not for the timing of COVID-19 and his Olympic asipirations, he in all likelihood would have gone out already, and on (or very close to on) top.

That said, I also appreciate for both that losing roughly what, 2/3 of your base income (someone feel free to correct me) would rather be avoided.

I guess this is nothing new to the long-term fans among us; but having only been a regular, avid sumo fan for a few years seeing the top-rankers go out like this is disheartening.

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4 hours ago, ViscountessNivlac said:

I don’t think they’d want to ignore it considering they’re choosing to convene the oldsters.

Exactly. 

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7 hours ago, Tsuchinoninjin said:

Yokozuna Gagamaru?

Woooo he's on another run!

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After Gagamaru has retired, the new yokozuna run now is that of Akiseyama.

Could Kakuryu be dragging it out because of kabu talks still  going on?

It would look bad regarding Hakuho's chances to get an ichidai toshiyori status if he'd retire after having handed a retirement recommendation by the YDC.

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Posted (edited)
47 minutes ago, Akinomaki said:

Could Kakuryu be dragging it out because of kabu talks still  going on?

It would look bad regarding Hakuho's chances to get an ichidai toshiyori status if he'd retire after having handed a retirement recommendation by the YDC.

It doesn't make sense for Kakuryu to have trouble with kabu talks, since he's entitled to be Kakuryu-oyakata for 5 years. That's more than enough time to sort out kabu without prematurely displacing ex-Toyonoshima just because Kakuryu retires tomorrow, unless there's been a change to the jun-toshiyori system that we don't know about.

The noblest thing Kakuryu can do now is retire immediately and save Hakuho. Otherwise, I don't see how the YDC can avoid handing both a recommendation to retire. That said, it's not guaranteed that Kakuryu's retirement will save Hakuho either.

And yes, that would be a horrendous look for the ichidai toshiyori status. I get the feeling the board is split in two on this. Hakkaku is a known staunch supporter of Hakuho, but Shibatayama and Oguruma both seem happy enough to rain on him.

47 minutes ago, Akinomaki said:

After Gagamaru has retired, the new yokozuna run now is that of Akiseyama.

Don't knock it, he's 3-1 and still in it!

Edited by Seiyashi
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YDC member Yamauchi: "Having surgery means he can't do sumo for quite a while, he himself is admitting he has come to a state of not being able to fulfill the duties of a yokozuna."

"He can just announce by himself that he'll sit out the next Tokyo basho and enter the next basho. This basho he started after kyujo with 2 wins and went kyujo. He created the stage himself to make a gracious decision, so why can't he think relieved? (and make that decision to retire)"

"If it goes on this way, I think there will be harsh views by all." (so unanimous intai recommendation)

http://hochi.news/articles/20210316-OHT1T50304.html

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3 hours ago, Akinomaki said:

After Gagamaru has retired, the new yokozuna run now is that of Akiseyama.

Well, Akiseyama is more mobile than gaga ever was, I am just not sure whether his "mobility" is an asset  (Noddingyes...)

Akiseyama might be described as having more moving parts than a swiss watch  :-D

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4 minutes ago, Wurstbroetchen said:

They need a yokozuna for the Olympics.

I do not think they need a yokozuna. It is just a neat way to tie sumo tradition with olympic traditions. But it is not mandatory.

And on the other hand it is still possible for one of the ozeki to score two yushos (or equivivalent ;-)) before the olympic games (granted that there will be a tournament in may) and that the olympic yokozuna questions will be solved naturally.

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Posted (edited)

I bet the YDC will be characteristically weak on this. I could see them making the noble choice for Kakuryu. I bet once they all get in a room they'll back down on Hakuho. He did at least try this basho, and has a plan going into July. He will show up, compete as long as he can, and drop out when he feels like it. I bet Hakuho will hang on until July 25th, then he will formally retire.

Edited by Churaumi
July 25th, not July 2025

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Posted (edited)

Who knows what they'll do?  I think they will encourage Hakuho to do his best to return healthy for July and finish a basho. If  not able to do that then they'll suggest he think seriously about honor of the rank of yokozuna and consider intai. Kakuryu on the other hand I expect to be told to show up in MAY (not March) on Day 1 either ready to compete the whole basho or with his Intai announcement. 

Edited by Rocks
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16 minutes ago, Rocks said:

Who knows what they'll do?  I think they will encourage Hakuho to do his best to return healthy for July and finish a basho. If  not able to do that then they'll suggest he think seriously about honor of the rank of yokozuna and consider intai. Kakuryu on the other hand I expect to be told to show up in March on Day 1 either ready to compete the whole basho or with his Intai announcement. 

And that's quite generous to Kakuryu already, who has promised, and then backed out of, two shintai basho. I wouldn't be surprised if he were told to just retire outright, or if we found out some time after his retirement that the last time he stepped on the dohyo, it was fully knowing he would lose the bout and then retire. 

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Posted (edited)

YDC chief Yano: "I was totally surprised, but he decided that on his own. I think we should respect that. A Yokozuna's course of action should be decided by a Yokozuna. The Yokozuna has  seriously weighed this by himself. I think he was asking himself if he could make a comeback, and made that decision."

Edited by Kintamayama
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How can Yano be "totally surprised"? Didn't the YDC give both yokozuna a warning in November? 

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3 minutes ago, SumoKitten said:

How can Yano be "totally surprised"? Didn't the YDC give both yokozuna a warning in November? 

Yes, but the actual retirement came as a surprise to everyone. 

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17 minutes ago, Kintamayama said:

A Yokozuna's course of action should be decided by a Yokozuna. The Yokozuna has  seriously weighed this by himself. I think he was asking himself if he could make a comeback, and made that decision."

Is it too optimistic to read into this that the YDC is willing to give Hakuho one more shot as he has declared in July?

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On 24/03/2021 at 11:52, SumoKitten said:

How can Yano be "totally surprised"? Didn't the YDC give both yokozuna a warning in November? 

If I were on the YDC, I would be totally surprised if anyone had listened to me, too. 

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Right guys, the verdict is in. According to Sports Hochi, the YDC has given Hakuho a second warning, but no recommendation to retire. Here's what Yano says, translated to the best of my ability. Feel free to correct me if I misinterpret it. 

"There were harsher opinions, but we will continue the caution resolution this time. There are three reasons for this: (1) he was absent from the January tournament due to infection with a new type of coronavirus, (2) he showed a willingness to participate in the March tournament, although it was only for two days and (3) he clearly stated that he would make his decision in the July tournament." 

It also states that regarding (3), Hakuho's decision to go into July with the firmest resolve has been assured by Hakkaku to Yano. Hakuho should send Hakkaku some flowers in appreciation. 

Phew! Master White's won the 4D chess here. I am looking forward to seeing him in July. With this COVID thing going on, I will do my best to secure tickets, best as early as possible in case he intais on Day 3, but we will see. 

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 Unanimous decision.  "A difficult decision has been made, but I would like to say I wait in anticipation for his return in July," said chairman Yano. He also suggested that a demand for intai may be issued if he fails to deliver. 

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1 hour ago, pricklypomegranate said:

the YDC has given Hakuho a second warning

Oh my!  A second warning!  Hakuho must be quaking in his ... bare feet(?).

Anyone know how many warnings Takanohana received in his 7-straight kyujo stint as a Yokozuna?

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Just now, Amamaniac said:
1 hour ago, pricklypomegranate said:

the YDC has given Hakuho a second warning

Oh my!  A second warning!  Hakuho must be quaking in his ... bare feet(?).

Anyone know how many warnings Takanohana received in his 7-straight kyujo stint as a Yokozuna?

If last November was the first time the YDC had issued warnings, he can't have received any. 

What Takanohana got was a "recommendation to participate in the next basho", which was implicitly shintai. Considering the context, I think it's equivalent in severity to a warning, but it wasn't labelled explicitly as one.

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Hakuho wants to do the dohyo-iri in the Olympics and the Kyokai needs a Yokozuna to do the dohyo-iri in the Olympics. So I believe an Intai for him after Nagoya and before Aki.

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