March basho 2021

[pricklypomegranate 730]

7 minutes ago, Kintamayama said:

If they are quoting the Nikkan article, Hakuhou said no such thing. He said shintai, not intai. He said Hakuhou  will decide his course of action in July. He did not say Nagoya will be his last basho, at least in this article. It can be interpreted that maybe he intends to retire, but Miyagino did not say that in as many words. Unless they are quoting a different source. I doubt any oyakata will tell anyone his Yokozuna (or anyone else, for that matter) is going to retire in 4 months, even if he knows.

Well, we are probably going to have to ask Grand Sumo International to alter their words - but I am not sure how to do that. I'll probably delete it, and then figure out what to do from there. 

Edited March 16, 2021 by pricklypomegranate

[Rocks 1,807]

4 minutes ago, pricklypomegranate said:

Well, we are probably going to have to ask Grand Sumo International to alter their words - but I am not sure how to do that. I'll probably delete it, and then figure out what to do from there. 

I would question the translation too. Letting such a big cat out of the bag so early seems way out of character for the Sumo world. What if the surgery and rehab goes great and Hakuho zenshos in July? No way he retires then I would think.  He may be trying to get ahead of the impromtu annoucement there WILL be a YDC meeting after this basho by saying he wil very seriously consider intai at that time if things go poorly. 

[Kintamayama 44,646]

4 minutes ago, pricklypomegranate said:

Well, we are probably going to have to ask Grand Sumo International to alter their words - but I am not sure how to do that. I'll probably delete it, and then figure out what to do from there. 

Unless they have another source.

[pricklypomegranate 730]

1 minute ago, Kintamayama said:

Unless they have another source.

Done. We'll see what they say. 

[Atenzan 1,074]

1 hour ago, Kintamayama said:

I doubt any oyakata will tell anyone his Yokozuna (or anyone else, for that matter) is going to retire in 4 months, even if he knows.

Yeah, wasn't there a rikishi who publicly declared the next basho was going to be his last before intai and then they made him retire before the basho started? I seem to remember that if you declare that you're intai, it's effective immediately.

[Kamitsuumi 389]

We've been through this same discussion on intai announcements, when Hakuhō decided on TV early last year that he'll retire by the end of the year.

[jsolo 106]

https://jbssumo.blogspot.com/2021/03/grand-sumo-results-with-relevant-links.html

March (Haru) Sumo Tournament--Day 3--complete coverage--links to media articles, photos, video, Kimarite (finishing move) and time of match statistics, Top Rank records and "Pennant race", Maegashira v Top Rank records, Juryo (substitute) records. Enjoy.

https://jbssumo.blogspot.com/2021/03/grand-sumo-results-with-relevant-links.html

[Kintamayama 44,646]

1 hour ago, Kamitsuumi said:

We've been through this same discussion on intai announcements, when Hakuhō decided on TV early last year that he'll retire by the end of the year.

But he didn't.

[Kamitsuumi 389]

31 minutes ago, Kintamayama said:

But he didn't.

Right but none of the bigwigs asked him to retire right away.

[Kintamayama 44,646]

15 minutes ago, Kamitsuumi said:

Right but none of the bigwigs asked him to retire right away.

You wrote that he decided to retire. Why should anyone ask him to retire if he already decided it? Because he didn't. Because he didn't decide to retire. He said it could happen, just like his oyakata said it today and someone decided that he declared his retirement. It's a nuance, not a real promise or decision.

Edited March 16, 2021 by Kintamayama

[Benevolance 2,483]

All I know is he promised he would give me his 49th car and he's clearly trying to renege. 

[Kaninoyama 1,712]

On the NHK broadcast, the interpretation of Hakuho's words was that he would put everything on the line at the Nagoya basho, kind of like Kakuryu promised to do this time but seems to have reneged. 

[Highway 46]

Honestly the last year has felt like one drawn-out retirement ceremony for the yokozuna, gracing us with brief special appearances before departing again. 

The three ozeki are decent sometimes but all to inconsistent at the moment. I still have hope that Takakeisho will take it to the next level.

Terunofuji - if he can also keep himself injury free - could obviously challenge for a yokozuna place as well. 

[Asashosakari 18,968]

4 hours ago, Atenzan said:

Yeah, wasn't there a rikishi who publicly declared the next basho was going to be his last before intai and then they made him retire before the basho started? I seem to remember that if you declare that you're intai, it's effective immediately.

Are you thinking of Konishiki? He had privately made the decision to retire at the end of Kyushu 1997 no matter what the basho held for him, but when he went makekoshi on Day 13, reporters queried his shisho "So, what's next for Konishiki?" and Takasago blabbed that he was going to retire at the end of the tournament. The Kyokai didn't allow him to take the final two matches after that.

Anyway, the Nikkan article that has everybody up in arms is this one, right? https://www.nikkansports.com/battle/sumo/news/202103160000375.html

 

[Asashosakari 18,968]

14 hours ago, Eikokurai said:

15 hours ago, Jakusotsu said:

Nope, that's tsukiotoshi.

Sometimes. Yorikiri is what they call pretty much any forward-moving, front-facing win that isn't an oshidashi. Tsukiotoshi is for backwards stuff.

Neither. The real "we have no idea what the heck that was" kimarite of choice is hikiotoshi.

 

[Gurowake 4,016]

9 minutes ago, Asashosakari said:

Neither. The real "we have no idea what the heck that was" kimarite of choice is hikiotoshi.

 

That's "we're not sure why he stumbled there, but his hands were in contact with his opponent's, so we'll just assume his opponent pulled his hands down, even though it didn't really look like it at all"

[WAKATAKE 2,644]

2 hours ago, Asashosakari said:

Are you thinking of Konishiki? He had privately made the decision to retire at the end of Kyushu 1997 no matter what the basho held for him, but when he went makekoshi on Day 13, reporters queried his shisho "So, what's next for Konishiki?" and Takasago blabbed that he was going to retire at the end of the tournament. The Kyokai didn't allow him to take the final two matches after that.

Anyway, the Nikkan article that has everybody up in arms is this one, right? https://www.nikkansports.com/battle/sumo/news/202103160000375.html

 

When I posted that I believe in the status thread, it reads as saigo which means last. I read that one as a make or break but maybe I'm missing context in there.

[Atenzan 1,074]

3 hours ago, Asashosakari said:

Are you thinking of Konishiki? He had privately made the decision to retire at the end of Kyushu 1997 no matter what the basho held for him, but when he went makekoshi on Day 13, reporters queried his shisho "So, what's next for Konishiki?" and Takasago blabbed that he was going to retire at the end of the tournament. The Kyokai didn't allow him to take the final two matches after that.

 

That must have been it, thanks!

[Tiger Tanaka 222]

Subtle difference I've noticed between the Hatsu basho and Haru is the length between matches. After all the COVID impacts in January and the depleted Makuuchi roster, it felt like an eternity between matches. I usually try to do some quick around the house errands between matches and find I don't have the time again and am running between matches to just put a few dishes away!! 

[Seiyashi 4,072]

Enho has much much more staying power this basho. Those extra kilos really helped. Ishiura is also this super dense ball of resilience. Excellent starts to the basho for both of them.

Edited March 17, 2021 by Seiyashi

[pricklypomegranate 730]

19 minutes ago, Seiyashi said:

Enho has much much more staying power this basho. Those extra kilos really helped. Ishiura is also this super dense ball of resilience. Excellent starts to the basho for both of them.

What... is this universe?! Enho opening with harite and 4-0 and in the lead for the Juryo yusho? Ishiura... not henkaing and actually displaying inspired sumo? It's as if there's a certain someone they are wrestling for... 

I sincerely hope he holds up for the next few days. Apart form the extra kilos, I've noticed he's had a different style. He rarely does the submarine tachiai and grapple anymore and is certainly fighting more upright, which will do wonders for his neck and back as he has decided not to get the surgery. He is also better able to take advantage of the distance his aite puts between him to reset and think of another strategy. Ishiura must have been watching Midorifuji's bouts - that was a well planned katasukashi. 

Another (not so) little man I would really like to congratulate is Ura - he displayed very decisive, forward-facing sumo today. Well done! 

 

Edited March 17, 2021 by pricklypomegranate

[Seiyashi 4,072]

1 minute ago, pricklypomegranate said:

What... is this universe?! Enho 4-0 and in the lead for the Juryo yusho? Ishiura... not henkaing and actually displaying inspired sumo? It's as if there's a certain someone they are wrestling for... 

Maybe Hakuho called them both in yesterday and gave them his mojo!

[pricklypomegranate 730]

3 minutes ago, Seiyashi said:

Maybe Hakuho called them both in yesterday and gave them his mojo!

Hakuho died so that they could live. It was a noble sacrifice. Amen, Hallelujah, etc. 

[Swami 245]

Hakuho and Kakuryu were already having a laugh for over a year or more, now they are making a complete mockery of the yokozuna rank.  Another reason why I always maintain Hakuho is hideously overrated, treating the rank almost as a public convenience.  And so much for Kakuryu's assertion that it would be win or bust in March, each injury is just inviting another injury.

They need to take a lesson from Hakkaku, when his old injuries returned with a vengeance in late 1991, despite the fact he was only 28, when it became clear to him that he would have difficulty getting into top condition again, he retired rather than drag his career out.  Likewise Akebono, who despite so many injuries, ended his career at yokozuna on a real high.

Similarly, when you look at the way in which the likes of Tochinishiki and Sadanoyama retired, it shows up these two absentee "yokozuna" as having no shame at all.  If they can't make the decision to retire themselves, they should be ordered to retire.

Considering the criticism Kitanoumi received over the last two years of his career, that was nowhere near as bad as Hakuho and Kakuryu's antics, completely brazen and bare-faced.

Taiho once remarked of Kitanoumi during that late spell "To think of a comeback is naive.  All one can do is try one last time".  It's about time these two part-timers considered that.

Swami

[Seiyashi 4,072]

29 minutes ago, Swami said:

Another reason why I always maintain Hakuho is hideously overrated, treating the rank almost as a public convenience.  And so much for Kakuryu's assertion that it would be win or bust in March, each injury is just inviting another injury.

 

29 minutes ago, Swami said:

Taiho once remarked of Kitanoumi during that late spell "To think of a comeback is naive.  All one can do is try one last time".  It's about time these two part-timers considered that.

To be fair to Hakuho, even in his late stage he was still challenging for yusho with some regularity, at least far more than Kakuryu. If not for this withdrawal, if he had gone on for the full 15, the optics on him wouldn't be anywhere near this bad. And, to give him credit, his participation in this basho was precisely trying for the last time - the last year - so I'm willing to close an eye and give him absolutely one last chance in July. But if he injures something else then yeah he's got to go, because then his promises to return will be worth as much as Kakuryu's.

Kakuryu on the other hand is a whole different kettle of fish. His shissho doesn't have a handle on him and he's essentially just breaking promises each time. The best thing he can do now is to voluntarily retire and return the favour to Hakuho, before the YDC decides its hand is forced and recommends both of them to retire. The sad part is, I don't think he'll think that way, and even if he does, it's not guaranteed that the YDC won't recommend Hakuho retire anyway.

Edited March 17, 2021 by Seiyashi