March basho 2021

[ryafuji 815]

8 minutes ago, Swami said:

Chiyonofuji only became a makunouchi regular after Kitanofuji became Kokonoe Oyakata, Chiyonoyana did recruit Chiyonofuji but Kitanofuji arguably had more contribution to Chiyonofuji’s rise.

Quite right, Kitanofuji was instrumental getting Chiyonofuji to switch his game from winning purely with throws to a more forward-moving style. To say he contributed very little to Chiyonofuji becoming  yokozuna is just not accurate. 

[Seiyashi 4,107]

Eh, I'm not going to bother editing the original post because it'll just confuse people who read the forum later, but I accept all the factual inaccuracies pointed out by my senpais. 

But back to my original point of discussion: Harumafuji debacle aside (which wasn't entirely Isegahama's fault if at all), surely Isegahama enters fairly rarefied company for having scouted and coached one yokozuna, and for having coached a second wrestler to ozeki - twice - after inspiring him to come back from career-ending injuries, not to mention a stableful of sekitori some of whom are half the size of their peers. Where does that place him on your individual estimations as an oyakata? He is probably aways behind Wakanohana I and Kitanofuji, perhaps, and maybe no one will match up to the estimation of Hitachiyama and Futabayama, but I'm curious to know how he stacks up both against his peers and historically.

Edited March 28, 2021 by Seiyashi

[bessantj 4]

Impressive by Terunofuji. The only sanyaku he didn't beat was Takayasu. He almost cleared out the top of the division. 

I don't follow Aoiyama that much but March really seems to be a good month for him.

[Koorifuu 1,018]

1 hour ago, Jakusotsu said:

...and Wakamisho didn't really benefit of Magaki's lack of coaching. (see John Gunning's several articles on that topic)

The fact he stayed as an upper makushita in that situation was already mighty impressive.

[ryafuji 815]

Ozeki> Jonidan > Ozeki. That must rank pretty highly in all-time sporting comebacks, never mind just sumo. 

[Highway 46]

Big congrats to Terunofuji, well deserved, he is the man to beat in sumo right now. He must feel top of the world with the journey he has had.

The three Japanese ozeki have their work cut out for them, but I'm also excited to see where Takanosho will go, I think he has massive potential to go further. I think the sanyaku for May looks super strong.

Very proud of Aoiyama, he often struggles big time when facing top ranking opponents, but great win today and he can be super proud with second place and a fighting spirit award. 
 

[Amamaniac 2,079]

2 minutes ago, Highway said:

Very proud of Aoiyama, he often struggles big time when facing top ranking opponents, but great win today and he can be super proud with second place and a fighting spirit award. 

For the last few years, I've been hearing that Aoiyama is a so-called "practice-ring Yokozuna".  He shot up to the Sanyaku ranks in 2014, but wasn't able to maintain that position.  He has, however, been a pretty solid rank-and-filer.  His dedicated training has helped him reap some significant rewards.  If we compare Aoiyama's career with that of Takayasu, there are definite grounds to value the Bulgarian's accomplishments.

With today's finish, Aoiyama has won the same number of Fighting Spirit prizes as Takayasu (i.e., 4).

Aoiyama has one Technique Prize, but Takayasu has one more (i.e., 2).

Aoiyama now has two jun-yusho to his name versus Takayasu's four.

Aoiyama has snagged one Gold Star, but Takayasu has three.

What really distinguishes Takayasu from Aoiyama, however, is the fact that Takayasu actually became an Ozeki, and held the rank for 15 straight tournaments.  And Takayasu also has three Outstanding Performance Prizes, thanks in part to the extra Gold Stars to his name.  

I'm just happy to see Aoiyama get the official recognition he deserves.  His success this tournament seems to have coincided with a change in mawashi colours.  Surely, his confidence has received a big boost.  We can bet that he will still be sporting the new green mawashi in May (if I'm not mistaken, his shikona could be translated as Blue Mountain or Green Mountain, take your pick).

[gunner 10]

Terunofujis story is fantastic. A longtime fan I agonized at his injury and fall in rank. I hope he can get another yusho and at least a jun-yusho together very soon because I don't see him staying heathy enough to remain at the  top of the meatgrinder. To me he looks like a Yokozuna but  I think he is reaching his limit rapidly. 

[Seiyashi 4,107]

39 minutes ago, Amamaniac said:

so-called "practice-ring Yokozuna"

Sorry, does this mean he's more like Mitakeumi or Goeido?

39 minutes ago, Amamaniac said:

(if I'm not mistaken, his shikona could be translated as Blue Mountain or Green Mountain, take your pick).

Eh, yes and no. Aoiyama's Aoi is 碧, which refers to emerald-blue/green, or jadeish, so it's more precisely a hybrid of those colours. FWIW his mawashi this basho was a lot closer to the actual colour than what he'd been wearing previously which would have been more like 青, or azure. (I know his previous mawashi was a bit more tealish than azure, but it certainly was way off emerald-blue/green).

Edited March 28, 2021 by Seiyashi

[Amamaniac 2,079]

3 minutes ago, Seiyashi said:

Sorry, does this mean he's more like Mitakeumi or Goeido?

Not sure how to answer that one.  But I get the feeling that those who describe Aoiyama as a "practice-ring Yokozuna" are suggesting that he is near invincible in the practice ring, but struggles to get important wins in official tournaments.  If Aoiyama ends up winning a Top Division championship like Mitakeumi and/or Goeido, then maybe no one will feel the need to call him a "practice-ring Yokozuna"  anymore.  

[Seiyashi 4,107]

5 minutes ago, Amamaniac said:

Not sure how to answer that one.  But I get the feeling that those who describe Aoiyama as a "practice-ring Yokozuna" are suggesting that he is near invincible in the practice ring, but struggles to get important wins in official tournaments.  If Aoiyama ends up winning a Top Division championship like Mitakeumi and/or Goeido, then maybe no one will feel the need to call him a "practice-ring Yokozuna"  anymore.  

Hmm, I was referring to Mitakeumi being well known for being lousy in practice but much better in honbasho, and Goeido being the other way round - so I assume he's more like Goeido, then.

[dada78641 884]

What a fantastic final match by Terunofuji. You can tell Takakeisho was concerned only with keeping his hands off his belt—in the end, Terunofuji beat him without even touching it.

edit: the teacup

Edited March 28, 2021 by dada78641

[Koorifuu 1,018]

Inosuke made it his life mission to stop Shodai's tawara magic on senshuraku bouts. 

[808morgan 813]

Well he is the guy to beat now and that was a hell of a recovery after surgery etc.... but I'll never forget that look the Geek gave him after he henka'd him and secured his demotion. That was cold, for a match like that it was honorable to meet him head on.

[Gurowake 4,096]

Well, I think we can all say for certain that the OBSC is dead and gone in the current era.  Asanoyama had nothing but a small mochikyukin bump to fight for, but didn't lay down to give is fellow Ozeki a KK.

[Karasukurai 166]

Really important question: what colour was the macaron because I missed it? (My family play 'guess the colour').

[Rocks 1,809]

1 minute ago, Karasukurai said:

Really important question: what colour was the macaron because I missed it? (My family play 'guess the colour').

Green!

[Tigerboy1966 1,455]

Afterthoughts. You know when I watched the title deciding match I thought, "Well done Takakeisho, you gave the big man a real fight and even looked like winning at one point. Fair play to you". And then I thought "Hang on a minute, Takakeisho was the ozeki, Terunofuji was the sekiwake". It's a bit like the Asanoyama vs Terunofuji match yesterday, when I was giving props to an ozeki for managing to be half-way competitive against a lower-ranked opponent. Looking at Terunofuji's defeats, Onosho and Takayasu beat him fair and square, while the Shimanoumi match was just weird - playing with his food until the noodle turned around  and bit him I suppose. Terunofuji really does look a class apart at the moment.

[yorikiried by fate 2,029]

4 hours ago, ryafuji said:

Quite right, Kitanofuji was instrumental getting Chiyonofuji to switch his game from winning purely with throws to a more forward-moving style. To say he contributed very little to Chiyonofuji becoming  yokozuna is just not accurate. 

I always thought that "juice" was quite instrumental for Chiyonofuji in his more successful career half.

[Karasukurai 166]

11 minutes ago, Rocks said:

13 minutes ago, Karasukurai said:

Really important question: what colour was the macaron because I missed it? (My family play 'guess the colour').

Green!

Damn, I went for pink! Thanks for the reply though!

[Sue 515]

1 hour ago, dada78641 said:

"How am I ever going to finish drinking all of this tea?"

[Ichimawashi 573]

6 hours ago, Benihana said:

Just watched the stream. Highlight of the basho:

"INOSUKE DISAPPEARS FROM THE SCREEN! WHERE IS HE???" 

I'm in tears 

Reminded me of the John Cleese line, commenting on Python’s “Upper Class Twit Of The Year Show,” as the camera shows Graham Chapman under a car:  “And Oliver has RUN HIMSELF OVER!  What a great twit!”

[Sue 515]

8 hours ago, Seiyashi said:

In the modern period, this is the strongest pre-ozeki promotion record. The closest was Kotooshu with 2 JY and a doten; Terunofuji has now done one better with a full yusho instead of a JY.

How many cases exist of any rikishi "hitting for the cycle" in three tournaments: yusho, doten, jun-yusho?

[Seiyashi 4,107]

53 minutes ago, Sue said:

How many cases exist of any rikishi "hitting for the cycle" in three tournaments: yusho, doten, jun-yusho?

None, at least not in the modern period as far as I can see.

Only Kotooshu has even managed to come close to a yusho in all of his promotion tournaments. Everyone else had at least one (and possibly even 3 - e.g. Takayasu) "bum" tournament where they weren't in contention, although the quality of that "bum" tournament varies and says nothing as to whether they were in fact in the arasoi at any point in time during that tournament. For example, Kaio's bum tournaments were his first 8-7 at K1 and his third 11-4 at S1e, in contrast to Hokutenyu who had a bum tournament of 11-4, and Takayasu who had three bum tournaments of 11-4, 12-3 and 11-4.

EDIT: Yikes, I didn't see it meant non-ozeki.

Edited March 28, 2021 by Seiyashi

[yorikiried by fate 2,029]

Edited March 28, 2021 by yorikiried by fate