Yubinhaad

Kakuryu Citizenship

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If Hatsu is indeed Kakuryu's farewell basho, I hope he's at least gonna try to go out in style and finish the full 15 days. But I'm glad this means we'll get to keep seeing him for a long time to come.

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7 hours ago, Kintamayama said:
Feel free to correct any errors because I'm not myself.

In that case you're doing a very good impersonation.:-D

---

This is a bit of welcome news. No doubt a weight off Kakuryu's shoulders as well.

I wonder if he'll go early now. Show his face for a couple of days then retire on the 3rd. Get all the intai headlines out of the way ready for a possible yokozuna promotion after the basho.

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10 hours ago, RabidJohn said:

I wonder if he'll go early now. Show his face for a couple of days then retire on the 3rd. Get all the intai headlines out of the way ready for a possible yokozuna promotion after the basho.

"Sumo Hails New Yokozuna... Japan's Hero Vows to Uphold the Dignity of his Rank.... in other news... former Mongolian retires (see page 23)"

That would be so Kakuryu.

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2 hours ago, Tigerboy1966 said:
13 hours ago, RabidJohn said:

I wonder if he'll go early now. Show his face for a couple of days then retire on the 3rd. Get all the intai headlines out of the way ready for a possible yokozuna promotion after the basho.

"Sumo Hails New Yokozuna... Japan's Hero Vows to Uphold the Dignity of his Rank.... in other news... former Mongolian retires (see page 23)"

That would be so Kakuryu.

And what if it goes tits up if Takakeisho drops two in a row to the other ozeki? I'd rather Kakuryu stick around, lose to Takakeisho, and then retire; there's a more compelling immediate story of handing over to the next generation.

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I’ve got a feeling Kakuryu will not enter the Hatsu basho. He has nothing to prove at this point. His post retirement career is finally sorted now. Competing always entails the risk of injury. He already has his fair share of aches and pains and it seems his heart hasn’t been in it of late. Training is hard. I’m predicting intai announcement before the tournament, but I would be happy to be wrong.

Edit: Just remember I read something about him vowing to gambarize one last time for his oyakata, so maybe my speculation is all moot.

Edited by since_94

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I couldn't be happier for him.  He seems to me to be a real overachiever with class and heart.

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6 hours ago, since_94 said:

I’ve got a feeling Kakuryu will not enter the Hatsu basho. He has nothing to prove at this point. His post retirement career is finally sorted now. Competing always entails the risk of injury. He already has his fair share of aches and pains and it seems his heart hasn’t been in it of late. Training is hard. I’m predicting intai announcement before the tournament, but I would be happy to be wrong.

Edit: Just remember I read something about him vowing to gambarize one last time for his oyakata, so maybe my speculation is all moot.

He's said that the announcement has lifted a load off his shoulders metaphorically, and he seems genuinely happier about training (probably because there's now no actual consequences to his performance that could ruin the rest of his life). I think he'll at least compete once more, and it would be nice if he could go out in style with one last good result or even a yusho.

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On 11/12/2020 at 09:55, Seiyashi said:

And what if it goes tits up if Takakeisho drops two in a row to the other ozeki? I'd rather Kakuryu stick around, lose to Takakeisho, and then retire; there's a more compelling immediate story of handing over to the next generation.

Takakeisho succeeding or not at his 1st tsuna run really matters very little. Kakuryu is retiring. The only real variable is the timing: before, during or after Hatsu. 

I don't believe before is likely, and as I've mentioned, afterwards risks overshadowing other possible headlines arising from the yusho, which would be impolite. 

Day 3 yokozuna retirements are a thing, Chiyonofuji for one. I don't know why, but maybe it's because it's a full fortnight before any promotion announcements... He gets to mount the dohyo, let the fans see him (and possibly that he's got nothing left), and maybe most importantly to himself, formally take his leave of the dohyo. 

Sure, Kakuryu could hang on and do that at the end of the basho, so he gets to lose to Takakeisho on day 13, but he's not going to post yokozuna numbers on the way and may even MK. He's now got no need to risk that, so he won't.

It's like the Goldilocks zone of yokozuna intai.

Edited by RabidJohn
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On 12/12/2020 at 00:10, since_94 said:

I’ve got a feeling Kakuryu will not enter the Hatsu basho. He has nothing to prove at this point. His post retirement career is finally sorted now. Competing always entails the risk of injury. He already has his fair share of aches and pains and it seems his heart hasn’t been in it of late. Training is hard. I’m predicting intai announcement before the tournament, but I would be happy to be wrong.

The Kakuryu way would of course be retirement with a fusen 0-1B-)

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I'm happy he'll stay in sumo. What could be better than taking a last yusho and announcing intai during the yusho interview with a smile?

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1 hour ago, Benihana said:

I'm happy he'll stay in sumo. What could be better than taking a last yusho and announcing intai during the yusho interview with a smile?

I went through the DB and found that only one yokozuna truly won the yusho before his retirement. However his retirement came under extenuating circumstances. Including the aforementioned yokozuna, six yokozuna completed the basho prior to their retirement. 2 of them retired on their own accord, two were kicked out of sumo, and two died while still active yokozuna. If Kakuryu were to complete the basho, let alone win the yusho, he would be in some rare company

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11 hours ago, Asashosakari said:

The Kakuryu way would of course be retirement with a fusen 0-1B-)

Touché.

While I have witnessed the 71st Yokozuna give out an inordinate number of kinboshi over the past few years, I am still a steadfast fan. Met him once by chance outside Michinoku stable in Ryogoku and he was a gentleman, even signed his autograph for me.

Edited by since_94
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17 hours ago, WAKATAKE said:

I went through the DB and found that only one yokozuna truly won the yusho before his retirement.

Not really.

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27 minutes ago, Jakusotsu said:

I was going to reply with the same example, but he did sit out the entirety of the tournament after he won, and only retired after it was over.  From a news source linked to from Wikipedia, he apparently said he wasn't going to retire yet almost immediately before he actually did.  It wasn't as if he got injured between tournaments and retired immediately.  It appears as though he thought about coming back during the tournament listed as his last, but ultimately decided not to before the next banzuke was put together.

https://www.nytimes.com/2001/01/23/sports/IHT-injuries-force-akebono-out-of-the-sumo-ring.html 

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3 hours ago, Jakusotsu said:

Yes I had been contemplating whether to put this one in. But technically like Gurowake mentioned he sat out the following tournament. However there were people saying that he had truly retired after having won his last yusho. I guess the debate is still alive even after all this time.

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On 13/12/2020 at 02:19, Benihana said:

I'm happy he'll stay in sumo. 

Speaking of that, I guess as a yokozuna he'll have his own heya at some point. But a big part of running a heya is the okamisan, so will Kakuryus Mongolian wife be able to fulfil the role? Anyone know how is her level of familiarity with Japan, the language etc? Would that possible be an problem when establishing or taking over a heya? 

Edited by dingo

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Isn't there an unwritten law that you can't do anything to take the focus away from an ongoing basho, like retiring? I remember Konishiki mentioning his intention to retire on day 13, intending to finish the basho, but was not allowed to face Terao, his opponent on day 14 and was effectively retired.. (He got back at the Kyokai for that during his danpatsushiki when he chose to face Terao then..). In short, has any ex-Yokozuna announced his retirement during a basho? Not intention, actual retirement announcement? 

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Looking at yokozuna who retired after 1990 (the first of which is Chiyonofuji), only Hokutoumi and Akebono did not retire during the basho, in addition to Asashoryu and Harumafuji, both of whom retired due to circumstances outside the ring.

Edited by Kamitsuumi

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On 09/12/2020 at 18:37, WAKATAKE said:

Saw this on Tachiai. Just can't believe it's finally happened.

https://tachiai.org/2020/12/10/kakuryu-acquires-japanese-citizenship/

Also on Nikkan

https://www.nikkansports.com/battle/sumo/news/202012100000083.html

January is going to be his last hurrah, unless he wins the yusho

Thanks for these links!

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5 hours ago, Kintamayama said:

Isn't there an unwritten law that you can't do anything to take the focus away from an ongoing basho, like retiring? 

In a word, no.

Kitanofuji, Kitanoumi and Chiyonofuji all retired on day 3 of an ongoing honbasho - and they were the first 3 I looked at! As I said before, it's a thing.

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16 minutes ago, RabidJohn said:

In a word, no.

Kitanofuji, Kitanoumi and Chiyonofuji all retired on day 3 of an ongoing honbasho - and they were the first 3 I looked at! As I said before, it's a thing.

I think what he is referring to is announcing your intention to retire before you formally submit the paperwork while desiring to finish the tournament.  From his anecdote, it appears that if you publicly announce an intention to retire relatively soon, they will force you to not compete for the rest of the tournament.  I assume this is to avoid the issues of someone competing that it's publicly known will not be on the next banzuke.

I say "relatively soon" since Hakuho announced like 5 years ago that he only had a few years left, but that hardly counts.

Edited by Gurowake

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If ever there was such an unwritten rule, it went out of the window when Hakuho announced on TV that 2020 was his last year as a yokozuna and that he would be retiring after the Olympics. That was not during a honbasho, I know, but Kintamayama cited the same Konishiki precedent at the time so it's not just me who sees the correlation.

Hakuho had probably cleared it with the Kyokai first, though, whereas Konishiki probably hadn't...

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4 hours ago, Kamitsuumi said:

Looking at yokozuna who retired after 1990 (the first of which is Chiyonofuji), only Hokutoumi and Akebono did not retire during the basho, in addition to Asashoryu and Harumafuji, both of whom retired due to circumstances outside the ring.

According to the db, Harumafuji was "credited" with two losses and a fusen in November 2017.

Meanwhile, how many "modern" Yokozuna (Hatsu Dohyo after 1950) have retired after winning a bout?

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7 hours ago, Kintamayama said:

Isn't there an unwritten law that you can't do anything to take the focus away from an ongoing basho, like retiring? I remember Konishiki mentioning his intention to retire on day 13, intending to finish the basho, but was not allowed to face Terao, his opponent on day 14 and was effectively retired.. (He got back at the Kyokai for that during his danpatsushiki when he chose to face Terao then..). In short, has any ex-Yokozuna announced his retirement during a basho? Not intention, actual retirement announcement? 

Nice story about Konishiki getting his own back on the Kyokai, except that it was Misugisato who was his scheduled opponent on Day 14.;-)

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39 minutes ago, Yamanashi said:

According to the db, Harumafuji was "credited" with two losses and a fusen in November 2017.

Meanwhile, how many "modern" Yokozuna (Hatsu Dohyo after 1950) have retired after winning a bout?

Only Akebono won his last bout on the dohyo.

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