2021 "Kozumo" Hatsu Basho discussion thread

[Reonito 1,304]

8 hours ago, pricklypomegranate said:

Well, to me, Ura is still the best, having gotten to sanyaku and having the best mix of body and technique.

Love Ura, but he topped out at M4e before getting injured.

[Churaumi 726]

It's not too late for Midorifuji to top out at double-digit maegashira, just sayin'...

[dingo 1,133]

Having now actually watched Takakeisho's bout with Hokutofuji, I didn't get the impression that Takakeisho ran out of steam or was particularly tired after losing the match. Hokutofuji did an admirable job defending and Takakeisho was unlucky to have his foot crumble. 

Re: Midorifuji's match - it's not always the one who touches down first who loses. I thought it was a good win. 

Edited January 12, 2021 by dingo

[Amamaniac 2,078]

It seems obvious at this early stage that the three active Ozeki are not doing all that well defending their elite status in this tournament.  Day 3 saw all three men being handed upset losses.  What does the rest of the tournament have in store for them?  Perhaps we can start an "Ozeki Watch"?

Tomorrow:

Takakeisho faces Takarafuji (Takarafuji is solid, but slow which may explain why the Isegahama man is 2-7 against the Ozeki.  Taakeisho has a good chance at picking up his first win of the tournament, unless something is seriously wrong.)

Shodai faces Kotoshoho (Kotoshoho was Rookie of 2020 and many seem to have high hopes for him.  These two men have never met in tournament action, so there is a novelty factor here.  Given the "rookie's" poor start, I'm giving this bout to Shodai.)

Asanoyama faces Onosho (Onosho is red hot at 3-0.  Asanoyama on the other hand ...  Past meetings favour Asanoyama 4-2, but given relative levels of confidence, I think Onosho will prevail.  Asanoyama did bounce back on Day 2 against Hokotofuji, but after his day 3 upset loss, I fear that the pressure on him may get in the way.)

Bottom line, I predict at least one Ozeki upset on day 4.

[Amamaniac 2,078]

11 hours ago, Pitinosato said:

But for me Hoshoryu-Midorifuji should have been at least a mono-ii

In the Video it looks like Midori touches the ground first

The fall happened right in front of the Shimpancho, former Musoyama.  It was probably clear to him (and everyone) that Midorifuji's left forearm touched down before Hoshoryu.  But Musoyama/Fujishima is no slacker when it comes to officiating.  I suspect he made a decision that Midorifuji was on the offensive at the time of the fall, and therefore a monoii would simply end up upholding the referee's call.  

But given the significant reduction in Top Division bouts, a monoii would have been a nice diversion.  We have yet to see a monoii in the Top Division this tournament.  Heaven forbid, the shimpan get bored and fall asleep! 

[Jakusotsu 5,757]

37 minutes ago, Amamaniac said:

It seems obvious at this early stage that the three active Ozeki are not doing all that well defending their elite status in this tournament.  Day 3 saw all three men being handed upset losses.

"Upset losses" is ambiguous. Me, I had all three Ozekis marked as losers in Sekiotori Toto, FWIW.

But I concur to your Tomorrow's predictions, apart from Asanoyama whom I still grant the edge over Onosho's reckless charge.

[mt fuji 976]

Anyone trivia heads know the lowest ranked Juryo wrestler to come up to Makuuchi for a match? Since we have a lot of Juryo rikishi out, J6e Azumaryu gets the call up for day 4.

[Jakusotsu 5,757]

3 minutes ago, mt fuji said:

Anyone trivia heads know the lowest ranked Juryo wrestler to come up to Makuuchi for a match? Since we have a lot of Juryo rikishi out, J6e Azumaryu gets the call up for day 4.

http://sumodb.sumogames.de/Query_bout.aspx?show_form=0&rowcount=5&rank1=j7-j14&rank2=m

[Kaninoyama 1,663]

5 hours ago, robnplunder said:

IMO, Midorifuji uses his small frame mot efficiently & effectively.  Enho's style lends itself to injury like that of Ura a few years back.  Ura III (after two major hiatus) appears to be fighting in a more conventional way.  That bodes well for his remaining career.   It would be nice to see all the small rikishi in one basho and duke it out including Ishura, Terutsuyoshi, Tobizaru, Kotoeko.  

Currently listed at 136 kilos, I'm not sure Ura belongs in the "small rikishi" category anymore. 

[mt fuji 976]

39 minutes ago, Jakusotsu said:

http://sumodb.sumogames.de/Query_bout.aspx?show_form=0&rowcount=5&rank1=j7-j14&rank2=m

nice query! last time was the match fixing scandal in 2011. I wonder how low we'll go this time...

[Tsuchinoninjin 1,244]

Kozeki??

[pricklypomegranate 730]

7 hours ago, robnplunder said:

IMO, Midorifuji uses his small frame mot efficiently & effectively.  Enho's style lends itself to injury like that of Ura a few years back.  Ura III (after two major hiatus) appears to be fighting in a more conventional way.  That bodes well for his remaining career.   It would be nice to see all the small rikishi in one basho and duke it out including Ishura, Terutsuyoshi, Tobizaru, Kotoeko.  

I think for me it's more like Midorifuji is untested. It's not uncommon for rikishi to do extremely well in their debut and then sort of struggle later on - I might change my mind about Midorifuji. Now that you mention Ura sticking to conventional method, I can't help but think the more straightforward style Miyagino and Hakuho advised Enho to do might have this in mind - to rely less on submarine tactics to reduce injuries. I think the intent is good, but don't think it worked well in practice - either getting wins or preventing injuries, unless he gains weight first. 

5 hours ago, Reonito said:

Love Ura, but he topped out at M4e before getting injured.

Sorry about that - was confusing him with Mainoumi's record. 

2 hours ago, Kaninoyama said:

Currently listed at 136 kilos, I'm not sure Ura belongs in the "small rikishi" category anymore. 

I think it's not so much the weight but the height. Terutsuyoshi is nearly 120kg but I wouldn't consider him even an average-sized rikishi. 

What do you think has brought the sudden influx of "small" rikishi (<175 cm)? A lull in the sumo standard, or simply rikishi getting more intelligent? 

Edited January 13, 2021 by pricklypomegranate

[Yamanashi 3,689]

2 hours ago, mt fuji said:

nice query! last time was the match fixing scandal in 2011. I wonder how low we'll go this time...

Did I miss something?  9/2020, day 15: J6e Chiyonoo vs M17e Ichinojo.

[Yamanashi 3,689]

Jeez!  In Natsu 2011, a J7 guy was matched against Maegashira on successive days -- pretty amazing [he lost both days].  The icing on the cake?  The guy's name was Akiseyama.

[Kaninoyama 1,663]

22 minutes ago, pricklypomegranate said:

I think it's not so much the weight but the height. Terutsuyoshi is nearly 120kg but I wouldn't consider him even an average-sized rikishi. 

What do you think has brought the sudden influx of "small" rikishi (<175 cm)? A lull in the sumo standard, or simply rikishi getting more intelligent? 

I think it needs to be weight, not height that defines "smallness." Otherwise, Takakeisho, who is the same height as Ura, is also small despite weighing 180+ kilos. The retired Takanoyama is another example. He was 185 cm, tall for a rikishi, but under 100 kilos throughout his career. 

As for the influx of smaller rikishi, I really don't know why. Maybe because in this oshi-dominant era, their quickness and agility gives them an advantage, whereas they'd be at a disadvantage if they were facing mainly larger yotsu adversaries?

But I do know I enjoy their presence, and having a wide variety of sizes and styles of rikishi in general. 

[Yamanashi 3,689]

26 minutes ago, Kaninoyama said:

As for the influx of smaller rikishi, I really don't know why. Maybe because in this oshi-dominant era, their quickness and agility gives them an advantage, whereas they'd be at a disadvantage if they were facing mainly larger yotsu adversaries?

You're probably right, but it's strange that (in this oshi-dominant era) Takakeisho is pooh-poohed by many because he's exclusively oshi.  Every new rikishi wants to become the next Yokozuna, but Yokozuna almost never come across as Oshi specialists.  In fact, when Takakeisho meets Terunofuji or Hakuho, etc., Hiro or Murray explain that he can't let them get his mawashi.  It reminds me of a nature documentary about mongooses vs cobras: "The cobra strikes and strikes, but he's tiring himself out ... now the mongoose approaches and grabs the snake, and it's all over. Later, the mongoose returns to his den to digest his well-won kensho."

Edited January 13, 2021 by Yamanashi
parenthetical phrase, of course

[Koorifuu 860]

It'd only have been more Mitakeumi-like if he bulldozed an ozeki BEFORE looking terribly lost against a joijin, and not the other way around.

[Yamanashi 3,689]

35 minutes ago, Koorifuu said:

It'd only have been more Mitakeumi-like if he bulldozed an ozeki BEFORE looking terribly lost against a joijin, and not the other way around.

Analyzing Mitakeumi is like listening to static and thinking you detect a melody.

[pricklypomegranate 730]

1 hour ago, Kaninoyama said:

I think it needs to be weight, not height that defines "smallness." Otherwise, Takakeisho, who is the same height as Ura, is also small despite weighing 180+ kilos. The retired Takanoyama is another example. He was 185 cm, tall for a rikishi, but under 100 kilos throughout his career. 

As for the influx of smaller rikishi, I really don't know why. Maybe because in this oshi-dominant era, their quickness and agility gives them an advantage, whereas they'd be at a disadvantage if they were facing mainly larger yotsu adversaries?

But I do know I enjoy their presence, and having a wide variety of sizes and styles of rikishi in general. 

It never occurred to me that Takakeisho was so short. I concede that you are on to something about weight but I think height is also very important. I would say that a "small" rikishi would be one who is substantially shorter (>10-15cm) and lighter (>20-30 kg) than the average. And of course, it's a spectrum. You have Enho, who is very short and slight to rikishi who are in the middle (i.e. Ishiura/Midorifuji) and larger "small" rikishi (i.e. Terutsuyoshi, Tobizaru, Ura). Other than an oshi-dominant era, I think it's that, ironically, many rikishi are so large these days that their agility and dexterity is often compromised, thus giving openings to small, quick rikishi. While I don't think that oshi rikishi are necessarily less skilled, their sumo is definitely less technical and their lack of knowledge or at least experience about these specific details also give openings to pixies (and other rikishi too). It's very rare to see a primarily yotsu-rikishi (i.e. Asanoyama, Tochinishin) and dual-purpose rikishi these days (i.e. Hakuho, Shodai, Mitakeumi, etc.) 

[robnplunder 974]

1 hour ago, pricklypomegranate said:

It never occurred to me that Takakeisho was so short. 

This reminds me of a song by Randy Newman, Short People - "They got little arms."   Takakeisho made the best of his stature, his short arms, legs, ...  

[WAKATAKE 2,624]

Stats on Daieisho's triple crown against the ozeki.

- Only the third hiramaku since the showa era to open up his basho 3-0 against all ozeki opponents. The other two are Wakanosato and Hokutofuji
- Daieisho is the 18th hiramaku overall to have a 3 match win streak against ozeki during any time of the basho

https://www.nikkansports.com/battle/sumo/news/202101120000887.html

[robnplunder 974]

43 minutes ago, WAKATAKE said:

Stats on Daieisho's triple crown against the ozeki.

- Only the third hiramaku since the showa era to open up his basho 3-0 against all ozeki opponents. The other two are Wakanosato and Hokutofuji
- Daieisho is the 18th hiramaku overall to have a 3 match win streak against ozeki during any time of the basho

https://www.nikkansports.com/battle/sumo/news/202101120000887.html

It is not so surprising given how consistent Daieisho has been on top of joi, sanyuku ranks.  Although I don't see him making it to Ozeki, it is good to see someone holding on to his form so long.  That is a rarity in this game.  

[Eikokurai 3,433]

Daieisho is showing the sanyaku how it’s done this basho. Four faced. Four taken down. Shame he won’t get the chance to win himself a kinboshi!

[code_number3 694]

Takakeisho: from tsuna run to no kensho money

[robnplunder 974]

1 hour ago, Eikokurai said:

Daieisho is showing the sanyaku how it’s done this basho. Four faced. Four taken down. Shame he won’t get the chance to win himself a kinboshi!

Daieisho will be happy with the yusho.