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2021 "Kozumo" Hatsu Basho discussion thread

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4 hours ago, Asashosakari said:

You're free to feel that way, but I'm afraid you'll likely come to find out that your position isn't shared by the people with relevant influence on the matter, Isegahama's predictable saber-rattling notwithstanding. Of course nobody's going to tell Takakeisho, "Yeah, sure, just aim for a 12-3 yusho with a playoff win over Kiribayama or something." The stated expectations are always higher than what will end up being considered acceptable when all is said and done.

But why? If he gets a 12-win yusho here, he'll have gone 12-13-12 with two titles and one runner-up. If that's sufficient to be - by quite some margin (!) - the best active rikishi in the current mini-era, what justification is there for requiring 14 or 15 wins? Yokozuna (rikishi in general, really) aren't measured by all their predecessors, they're measured by their own competition.

4 hours ago, Kashunowaka said:

If there was a requirement that you had to defeat a yokozuna to become one, Akebono would never have become yokozuna in 1993 since there were no yokozuna at the time. You cannot select who you fight, and you can only defeat those who participate.

I understand that of course, one needn't defeat a Yokozuna to become one themselves. How else in Yokozuna-less periods could another arise? Being in fighting shape when the basho arrives is a fundamental part of being a rikishi and both Yokozunas are currently unable to fulfil this responsibility due to their age/circumstances. I certainly don't blame Takakeisho for lacking one strong source of opposition during this critical juncture of his career. I fully agree with you that particularly Yokozuna (and those on tsuna runs) are measured by their competition, whatever of it is available. However, that is precisely why I feel that a 15-0, 14-1 or at least a very good 13-2 (maybe loss to Ozeki/Sanyaku) should be Takakeisho's barrier to entry. Even though he incurs totally no fault for the weakened slate of opponents, the level of competition has arguably decreased. To me at least, having any less than a solid 13-2 with this slate of opponents, in this period of unprecedented parity, compromises the quality of his tsuna run, even if it is consecutive. Yes, I understand that is it rather unprecedented to not promote a Yokozuna with two consecutive yusho, but we live in unprecedented times. Such a slate of opponents has never happened on a tsuna run, at least to my knowledge. The rules for Yokozuna promotion are not set in stone. 

Of course, there are other elements to consider, such as the significance of having a yokozuna on the banzuke, having a Japanese yokozuna, heralding the new age especially in this time of crisis. Taking these into account, he will likely be promoted - whether I like it or not. I fully understand that my opinion doesn't cause any real impact. Nevertheless, I am very appreciative and lucky to witness a potentially successful tsuna run of a great rising star just 1 year into watching sumo. They are quite rare, from my recent understanding. 

Can we all at least agree that if Takakeisho goes yusho-doten, he should not be promoted? 

Thanks @Kintamayama for clarifying the comments. 

Edited by pricklypomegranate

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I think the only way Takakeisho doesn't get promoted on a playoff loss is if its a low number of wins, or he loses to Asanoyama or Shodai since they would now be on rope runs (maaaybe a loss to Shodai is OK).

 

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To post in the polls? Or until the basho gets cancelled due to covid? :-)

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We should name this thread to the "Kozumo" Hatsu 2021 thread based on this post here

 

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2 hours ago, WAKATAKE said:

We should name this thread to the "Kozumo" Hatsu 2021 thread based on this post here

 

Done! 

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Shohozan henkaed his first match of the basho? Against Churanoumi? He must not feel good about his chances this basho.

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I was overjoyed when I saw Ikioi win, but that tumble off the dohyo was quite worrying. Ura demonstrated fantastic straightforward, forward-facing sumo - I hope he keeps this up over the 15 days. Jokoryu messed up the tachiai and was in an awkward angle and so almost immediately lost. I feel bad that Oho's had a terrible welcome to sekitorihood, but hope he can swallow this down and achieve KK this basho. 

Seeing the number of rikishi kyuko on the lighted boards really brought it home for me - that's gotta be a kyujo record. 

Edited by pricklypomegranate
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Onosho completely pwned Takayasu. Ugly.

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I guess Shodai's ankle is okay. He took Hokutofuji's best charge and he couldn't even back Shodai up a step.

Tough loss for Asanoyama.

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Man I am so sad that Hakuho wasn't able to compete this honbasho. He would've easily won no doubt about that

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Nice win for Mitakeumi.  Looked like Takakeisho was going to push him out but he got around on him.

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Wakanohana has predicted Shodai for the yusho. Run! Hide! Save yourselves! (Laughing...)

Edited by pricklypomegranate
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53 minutes ago, Rocks said:

Onosho completely pwned Takayasu. Ugly.

To Onosho’s credit, that was a helluva tachiaii. Like a freaking cannonball.

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2 hours ago, Rocks said:

Shohozan henkaed his first match of the basho? Against Churanoumi? He must not feel good about his chances this basho.

Seeing Shohozan in Juryo is just plain weird. Henka attempt on day one even weirder.

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4 minutes ago, since_94 said:

To Onosho’s credit, that was a helluva tachiaii. Like a freaking cannonball.

Yup, he practically mugged poor Takayasu.

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Bad start to the Yokozuna run, it will be interesting to see how Takakeisho deals with the early setback. It feels kind of weird watching tbh. 

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Hoktofuji is no fool but Shodai dealt with him easily - he looked good. Surprised that Takayasu was taken to the cleaners by Onosho as Takayasu has got his mojo back recently, perhaps he'll get himself together. Not surprised by Asanoyama, mentally I reckon he's shot at this level, he needs to get his head straight, the pressure just seems too much for him. Mita did the old 'let Takakeisho wear himself out' trick and was able to soak up the blows. Good to see Ura totally demolish a talented Kotoyuki, that will give Ura a bit of confidence going into this basho (however long it lasts).

Day 1 - Terunofuji and Shodai looking handy. Asanoyama and Takakeisho looking shaky.

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1 hour ago, pricklypomegranate said:

Wakanohana has predicted Shodai for the yusho. Run! Hide! Save yourselves! (Laughing...)

I think, after day 1, I’m ready to go along with that prediction as well. I didn’t expect 2/3 Ozeki to lose this early. 
 

All of my favorites, with the exception of the Georgian Giant, lost today. Rough day for my fandom. 

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23 minutes ago, Karasukurai said:

Hoktofuji is no fool but Shodai dealt with him easily - he looked good. Surprised that Takayasu was taken to the cleaners by Onosho as Takayasu has got his mojo back recently, perhaps he'll get himself together. Not surprised by Asanoyama, mentally I reckon he's shot at this level, he needs to get his head straight, the pressure just seems too much for him. Mita did the old 'let Takakeisho wear himself out' trick and was able to soak up the blows. Good to see Ura totally demolish a talented Kotoyuki, that will give Ura a bit of confidence going into this basho (however long it lasts).

Day 1 - Terunofuji and Shodai looking handy. Asanoyama and Takakeisho looking shaky.

Out of reacts but concur. Shodai had a very tough customer today but took it fantastically, Takakeisho got played by a relatively more soberly smart Mitakeumi, and I have no idea what the dickens Asanoyama was doing today. The worst of it is that he looked like he gave up before he even actually got to the bales. To be fair to him, he's also the one most likely to be suffering ring rust amongst the active sanyaku.

If he goes on at this rate I rather he fail to clear kadoban and come back with better motivation and experience. He's not impressed very much after his shin-ozeki basho. One could say it's due to the weight of expectation, but that comes with the territory.

3 minutes ago, Shinobi Steve said:

All of my favorites, with the exception of the Georgian Giant, lost today. Rough day for my fandom. 

Speaking of Tochinoshin, colour me impressed with his super deliberate yori-dismantling of Tamawashi. It seems the pivot from his old style is complete and Tochinoshin is very successfully adopting an inexorable, forward style with his strength.

Edited by Seiyashi
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Wild and wacky day, I hope Takayasu doesn't lose too much confidence from that bout, it was one hell of a tachiai by Onosho, combined with a loss of footing. I was really pinning all my hopes on my boy (Takayasu) continuing the first-time yusho winner Hatsu trend!

Terunofuji looked like a beast again, and Shodai was spectacular. Mitakeumi once again playing spoiler to Takakeisho's hopes, hopefully he bounces back tomorrow. 

Midorifuji looked good in his debut, Tochinoshin seems to (touch wood) have figured out how to do effective sumo even with his knees.

There could be some good storylines coming out of this basho yet, even though I still think it won't see 15 days and should never have gone ahead.

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The tail-end of Kisenosato's career should have taught us that impressive form in training isn't worth a rat's ass once the real stuff starts, but I fell for it again and thought that Takayasu was going to be the man this time.

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1 hour ago, Tigerboy1966 said:

The tail-end of Kisenosato's career should have taught us that impressive form in training isn't worth a rat's ass once the real stuff starts, but I fell for it again and thought that Takayasu was going to be the man this time.

To be fair, Takayasu wasn't and isn't in as bad shape as Kisenosato was back then, and Onosho really brought it today. If Takayasu gets smoked by, say, Kiribayama, then yes something doesn't quite add up.

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Was kinda shocking to see the big  crowd, but let's hope for the best. Nice to see Kagayaki stay on his feet, his foot work is improving IMO. Akiseyama with another barn burner win, his balance with that ridiculous body is great. Murray Johnson was remarking on Takakeisho's gassing out so quickly, he can use some cardio training. 

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