2021 "Kozumo" Hatsu Basho discussion thread

[Yamanashi 3,725]

21 minutes ago, Asashosakari said:

On that note, I wonder how much overlap there is between fans who claimed that all these absences would make a mockery of the basho, and fans who are demanding that injured rikishi should be allowed penalty-free absences all the time...

a lot.

[Akinomaki 39,790]

3 hours ago, Gurowake said:

So I'm guessing Wakanohana wasn't doing those yusho predictions in Hakuho's heyday?  Or was he just not wanting to be obvious back then and was trying to make a prediction that other people wouldn't be making?  Certainly over the past couple years, especially when Hakuho has been absent, it's understandable to never be accurate given how many different winners there have been, but 5-10 years ago, Hakuho was an extremely safe and obvious pick.

Abema started that feature (Waka weekends) July 2019 http://www.sumoforum.net/forums/topic/37379-abema-tv-all-sumo-live/?page=9&tab=comments#comment-394047

[Reonito 1,335]

2 hours ago, lackmaker said:

How unusual is it for all junior sanyaku to get a minimum of 9 wins?

Pretty unusual, though it did happen this past July. (Edit: it's more unusual than the query suggests, as some of those instances had 4 junior sanyaku with 9+ wins, but there were extra slots.)

Edited January 24, 2021 by Reonito

[Koorifuu 886]

3 hours ago, Gurowake said:

This was his return to Makuuchi after being suspended for a tournament for gambling (with many others) and falling to Juryo.  He had already been Sekiwake and had a few joi KKs, so a 12-3 from M14e was not particularly notable.  The same could be said, though to a far lesser extent, for the two Kasugano-beya ones.  Sansho tend to be awarded more for breaking expectations than doing well for what rank you're at.

That was a double punishment: for Goeido, Toyonoshima & Miyabiyama, but especially for the whole of juryo - who proceeded to get helplessly pummeled for those 15 days. Those three guys got 35 wins out of 39, if we exclude their bouts against each other.

Edited January 24, 2021 by Koorifuu

[Jakusotsu 5,815]

4 hours ago, Kashunowaka said:

It's a good thing that this bout was essentially meaningless.

Not *quite*. Long-time leader Nekonishiki would have won the Tipspiel Yusho with Shodai.

[Asashosakari 18,786]

I foresee high GTB scores - the new banzuke basically writes itself until M11.

[808morgan 805]

2 hours ago, Shinobi Steve said:

Congratulations to Daieisho!

I’m incredibly happy to be a member of this forum. Prior to day 1 of the basho, there was a tremendous amount of doom and gloom in other online communities. I think we can all agree that we were thoroughly entertained for the past 15 days. It was far from the sham basho that many outside of this forum were predicting. 

Yeah in general I think the mice will play while the cats away, I expected some very spirited effort because many felt they had a chance. 

[Kashunowaka 300]

44 minutes ago, Jakusotsu said:

Not *quite*. Long-time leader Nekonishiki would have won the Tipspiel Yusho with Shodai.

Mea culpa!

[Reonito 1,335]

43 minutes ago, Asashosakari said:

I foresee high GTB scores - the new banzuke basically writes itself until M11.

I've encountered some puzzlers a little higher than that.

[Reonito 1,335]

59 minutes ago, Asashosakari said:

I foresee high GTB scores - the new banzuke basically writes itself until M11.

I'm really glad we're not playing GTJB—assuming the absent guys are frozen, there are 5 other rikishi who really belong in the top 10 slots, and 3 slots in which to put them.

[Gurowake 3,922]

On 17/01/2021 at 10:00, Gurowake said:

The youngsters in Makushita (which I define as those less than 20.5 years old at least Ms15, less than 20 years old at least Ms30, less than 19.5 at least Ms45, and less than 19 at least Ms60, looking only at the month and assuming they hit their (half) birthdays after the basho) are all doing reasonably well.  Note how far above that age curve that Yoshii and Otsuji are.

Kitanowaka: Born November 2000, ranked Ms11 - 3-1

Yoshii: Born August 2003, ranked Ms26 - 2-2

Tochikamiyama: Born January 2001, ranked Ms20 - 2-2

Anzai: Born August 2002, ranked Ms45 - 3-1

Mudoho: Born September 2001, ranked Ms43 - 2-2

Otsuji: Born October 2003, ranked Ms59 - 3-1

There's also Hokuseiho, Born November 2001, ranked Ms15, not participating due to Covid.

Finishing records:

Kitanowaka - 4-3, will end up around ms7

Yoshii - 4-3, ms20

Tochikamiyama - forget I mentioned him 2-5, ms35

Anzai - 4-3, ms37

Mudoho - 5-2, ms27

Otsuji - 5-2, ms40

I'm glad only one was jinxed by me mentioning them.

[Gurowake 3,922]

10 hours ago, Amamaniac said:

I've scanned the list of Top Division champions in the modern 6-annual-tournaments era, and this is the first time that there have been six different champions in a row (including two makujiri winners).  This further cements the fact that oozumo is in a (not-quite-post-Hakuho) transition era

I think you missed Kyushu 1990 - Hatsu 1992.  You may have thought 2 rikishi in the set {Konishiki, Kotonishiki, Kotofuji} were the same, but there were 8 different winners in a row.  That was definitely a transitional period between the dominance of Chiyonofuji and the rise of Takanohana and Akebono.  Takanohana's first was near the end of that run, and Akebono's first was soon after.

(Unless the "Makujiri" was supposed to qualify it, but obviously Makujiri Yusho are far more rare, and getting 2 of them in a short span is way more mind-blowing than 6 different winners in a row. ) 

There's also currently 9 different winners in the past 10 tournaments and 10 in the past 12.

 

[Tigerboy1966 1,376]

29 minutes ago, Reonito said:

I'm really glad we're not playing GTJB—assuming the absent guys are frozen, there are 5 other rikishi who really belong in the top 10 slots, and 3 slots in which to put them

There may be some kicking and screaming about where Ura lands on the banzuke. But if the ranks are frozen...

[Reonito 1,335]

6 minutes ago, Tigerboy1966 said:

There may be some kicking and screaming about where Ura lands on the banzuke. But if the ranks are frozen...

I mean, J7 isn't horrible, and far from what I think will be the worst banzuke luck.

[Tigerboy1966 1,376]

55 minutes ago, Reonito said:

I've encountered some puzzlers a little higher than that.

Me too. I have some hugely improbable promotions on my provisional list. Shimanoumi at m3???

[since_94 650]

Jonidan winner 15 East Nogami looks like a monster. Massive trapezius muscles. Definitely one to watch, and I'll suspect we'll be watching him in prime time soon.

Daishomaru and Hidenoumi both had very good results 11-4 in Juryo. Are those career bests at that level for them? I suspect so.

Pity about Akiseyama and Kotonowaka both missing out on the sansho that were conditional, but them's the breaks. They both fought really well, especially Kotonowaka.

Tochinoshin didn't bring much this tournament. See how far his 4-11 drops him from M4.

Surprised to see Onosho dominate Hoshoryu as he did on Day 15. Both fighters impressed this tournament and finish very respectably on 9-6.

Kotoshoho got VERY lucky to squeek out a second victory against Sadanoumi. I thought he lost. By a wide margin.

The makushita kettei-sen was awesome to watch. With Jonidan and Jonokuchi tacked on, that was a whole bunch of bonus excitement on day 15.

Very happy about Terunofuji being on an(other) Ozeki run.

Wondering about Ikioi's future plans.

All in all, a great tournament, I'd say. Lots of long bouts, some rare kimarite. No one got sick. A minor miracle in itself.

Can't wait for March.

 

[Tsuchinoninjin 1,248]

Daieisho! A lot of people smarter than me on the forum had him tabbed as the dark horse the past year or so, so its not a HUGE surprise, but a welcome one indeed.

[Yamanashi 3,725]

21 minutes ago, since_94 said:

Kotoshoho got VERY lucky to squeek out a second victory against Sadanoumi. I thought he lost. By a wide margin.

There's no doubt Sadanoumi put his foot down, but ... if Kotoshoho wasn't a "dead body" in that case, who was?

On that point, it clearly would have been advantageous for Sadanoumi to simply hang on and ride the larger man down to the floor, maybe popping Kotoshoho's head off on collision, but would that look any better than a concussed rikishi flopping around on the dohyo?

[Tsuchinoninjin 1,248]

5 hours ago, 808morgan said:

Yeah in general I think the mice will play while the cats away, I expected some very spirited effort because many felt they had a chance. 

Who are the mice and who are the cats? I can't tell any more

Quote

There's no doubt Sadanoumi put his foot down, but ... if Kotoshoho wasn't a "dead body" in that case, who was?

You could tell Kotoshoho was really trying to pull Sadanoumi past him, I was actually a little surprised it was isamiashi - I really felt Kotoshoho forced that step to happen.

Edited January 25, 2021 by Tsuchinoninjin

[Morty 1,480]

8 hours ago, Shinobi Steve said:

 

I’m incredibly happy to be a member of this forum. Prior to day 1 of the basho, there was a tremendous amount of doom and gloom in other online communities. I think we can all agree that we were thoroughly entertained for the past 15 days. It was far from the sham basho that many outside of this forum were predicting. 

I totally agree. This forum is one of the best and most respectful places on the whole internet. Nobody goes ad hominem, there is no flaming, everyone treats each other well. Well done to all the forum members for being a thoroughly decent bunch of human beings - kudos!

[WAKATAKE 2,631]

50 minutes ago, Morty said:

I totally agree. This forum is one of the best and most respectful places on the whole internet. Nobody goes ad hominem, there is no flaming, everyone treats each other well. Well done to all the forum members for being a thoroughly decent bunch of human beings - kudos!

There was an anime forum I used to belong to a while ago and was very active in over there. They are still one of the top anime news sites, but they let politics enter into the community and that basically alienated people like myself. It's been ten years since I left. I love this forum and it's probably the only one that I remain an active member throughout, mainly because the community leadership dedicates to sticking to what this forum is all about.

[Koorifuu 886]

Ex-Bushuyama lets the Kasugayama kabu go in 5... 4... 3...

[lackmaker 432]

1 hour ago, Tsuchinoninjin said:

Daieisho! A lot of people smarter than me on the forum had him tabbed as the dark horse the past year or so, so its not a HUGE surprise, but a welcome one indeed.

It would be fair to recognise that on more than one occasion Kintamayama mentioned Daieisho had the look of someone who had the potential to move up.

[Yamanashi 3,725]

2 hours ago, Koorifuu said:

Ex-Bushuyama lets the Kasugayama kabu go in 5... 4... 3...

Then what, chat up Okinoumi?

[Jakusotsu 5,815]

Regarding the Makushita playoff, wouldn't it be more "fair" to have the two lowest ranked do the pre-elimination bout instead of drawing lots? Ozumo is all about hierarchy after all.