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2021 "Kozumo" Hatsu Basho discussion thread

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4 hours ago, Jakusotsu said:

Reminds of the famous song "He's got legs, they know how to use them..." (Beardeddisguise...)

The perfect emoji!!

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2 hours ago, Koorifuu said:

(on a sansho-less bout)

Kensho

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4 hours ago, Gurowake said:

Hikiwake was last used in 1974, and was extremely rare even then, with the most recent previous ones being 5 in the 60s.  I think it's still quite possible there might eventually be another, but it's rather unlikely given that they'll make them take breaks and restart from the tachi-ai.

http://sumodb.sumogames.de/Query_bout.aspx?show_form=0&rowcount=2&kimarite=92&east1=on

Thanks. I fixed it. 

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Hanakaze has achieved his kachikoshi today, beating Sakura in today's jonokuchi matches to move to 4-2. He is the first active 50 year old to achieve in 116 years. The last person to do it was a person named Wakanoki in Natsu of 1905 (Wakanoki is not in the database due to the banzuke only having Juryo and above).

https://www.nikkansports.com/battle/sumo/news/202101210000416.html

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After the gunbai-sashichigae (overturn) yesterday in his overseeing the Shodai-Okinoumi match, Shikimori Inosuke made an inquiry to Hakkaku about his status and whether it will be changing going forth, which is a departure from the traditional resignation submission that the tate-gyoji usually does after an overturn. Hakkaku told him that the discussion about what they would do with him will be put on hold for the meantime. Since becoming tate-gyoji in 2019, the current Inosuke has had his decision overturned 5 times.

https://www.nikkansports.com/battle/sumo/news/202101200000764.html

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Aoiyama looking both ungainly and ungracious in a loss against a much smaller opponent in Midorifuji. Grabbing the leg was unnecessary, ineffectual and looked petulant IMO.

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10 minutes ago, Hakuryuho said:

Tokushoryu robbed

Disagree, but would have preferred to see him prevail.

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Daieisho walked a tightrope on the bales to keep his yusho hope alive. 

Edited by Kaninoyama

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35 minutes ago, Djihi said:

Daieishou pulled the hair of Meisei. 

A friend messaged me some stills of it.

20210121at022302.png

20210121at022329.png

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With Asanoyama's loss to Terunofuji, it looks like a straight shootout between Daieisho and Shodai for the yusho. True, the chasing 8-4 pack are still technically in the hunt but with three days left to pull back two wins just to level up, and it largely out of their hands, the two frontrunners are clear favourites. That said, Terunofuji's Ozeki-run remains on course, so there's still a plotline to follow there. He can probably afford one more defeat. Two more wins will put him at 23/30 and well on course for a return with double-digits in March. That hasn't had much attention this basho, with all the focus on Takekeisho's failure and Daiesho's success.

Edited by Eikokurai
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19 minutes ago, Kaito said:
1 hour ago, Djihi said:

Daieishou pulled the hair of Meisei. 

A friend messaged me some stills of it.

20210121at022302.png

With this evidence, we can make two observations:

(1) Oozumo judging has been proven fallible (once again) in this tournament.  Whether it is a matter of conducting a monoii and opting for a compromise torinaoshi rather than making a definitive call (i.e., day 11 with the Shodai v Okinoumi initial bout), or not spotting a hansoku hair-pull (i.e., day 12 with Daieisho v Meisei), the official results posted in at least two bouts are flawed.

(2) Both co-leaders are now level in terms of having benefited from the judges' poor judgement.

Karma rules.  At this point, neither co-leader can use the excuse that he lost the championship because the other lucked out from poor judging.

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33 minutes ago, Kaito said:

A friend messaged me some stills of it.

Thanks for sharing those stills.  I gave you a (big) like, but be sure to thank your friend for me. ;-)

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Let's look at rookie Midorifuji.  In his bout against Aoiyama today, the newest small man took a harite-slap beating before he managed to drop the Bulgarian bruiser down and out of the ring using katasukashi.  The under-shoulder swing down is fast becoming his signature technique, and today Midorifuji proved that it can work against just about any opponent (or perhaps I should say he has the skill to execute it against just about any opponent).

When Midorifuji broke into the Juryo Division last March, he didn't use the technique, not even once.  He did, however, use it twice in July and once in September.  Then in November, he used it to get four of his yusho-winning 10-5 record.  Thus far in his January 2021 Top Division debut, he has executed katasukashi four times, and he still has three more days to add to that total!  

NHK's broadcast has already revealed that stable master Isegahama (former Yokozuna Asahifuji) also liked to used this kimarite, and has clearly found a true disciple in Midorifuji.

I humbly submit that we dub Midorifuji the "katasukashi kid".  Just a suggestion...

Edited by Amamaniac
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1 hour ago, Kaito said:

A friend messaged me some stills of it.

Thanks for the stills too - though I am not too sure it was a hansoku - during the live feed it seemed like Daieisho grabbed the back of the head and not the mage, and in the close-ups his fists are closed but not around the mage itself. It looks to me he just raked his hands across it, not pulled it, but it's definitely very risky, especially if you are in the yusho race. It's definitely worth investigating into if I were a shimpan or a very observant rikishi. Where's Hakuho when you need him... 

But other than that, Daieisho escaped from the tawara very well, because of a good understanding of belt techniques. Meisei had the right hand grip on his mawashi. However, by lifting his arm all the way up, Meisei's grip was cut off and as a result was unable to force Daieisho out, giving the pusher-thruster room to move laterally and escape defeat. 

13 minutes ago, Amamaniac said:

I humbly submit that we dub Midorifuji the "katasukashi kid".  Just a suggestion...

It's the Isegahama Katasukashi®. However, it's a big worry of mine that his reliance on it might be exploited by higher-rankers or seasoned veterans, and he might hit a barrier like our Ashitori King Terutsuyoshi, or our dear Hineri Prince Enho. 

Edited by pricklypomegranate
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23 hours ago, pricklypomegranate said:

Thanks for the stills too - though I am not too sure it was a hansoku - during the live feed it seemed like Daieisho grabbed the back of the head and not the mage, and in the close-ups his fists are closed but not around the mage itself. It looks to me he just raked his hands across it, not pulled it, but it's definitely very risky, especially if you are in the yusho race. It's definitely worth investigating into if I were a shimpan or a very observant rikishi. Where's Hakuho when you need him... 

The photos that our fellow Forum member Kaito provided are pretty damning IMHO.  In the past, placing one's open hand on the head of one's opponent was generally deemed to fall short of a hair pull, but the point was that a wrestler doing that must not close his fingers.  In the photos provided, the fingers of Daiesho's left hand are definitely closed, and I would say there are signs of Meisei's hair being tugged.  The monoii that was called focussed on which wrestler touched out first.  Apparently, that completely distracted them from the hair pull.

Actually, I now have new-found respect for Meisei.  Often, when a hair pull occurs and a monoii is not forthcoming, a hard-done-by wrestler will jerk his head to draw attention to his mage as he walks back to his side of the ring.  Meisei did not sink to that level.  

Edited by Amamaniac

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I have to agree now that I've seen it in full. We've definitely seen those called as a hairpull in the past. Daieisho got away with one there.

It makes me wonder, has a rikishi ever called attention to his own defeat, whether a hansoku or a proper defeat like a heel out or something? For a sport so steeped in honour and respect, I can't say I recall any examples of that sort of sportsmanship in sumo. I guess they always have the excuse that they themselves don't know for sure they pulled hair or stepped out first, but there must be times when a rikishi knows they've gotten the rub of the green unfairly and kept silent about it.

Edited by Eikokurai
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1 hour ago, Amamaniac said:

Either way, I agree that a monoii should have been called, but sadly the judges were caught sleeping.

Actually, I now have new-found respect for Meisei.  Often, when a hair pull occurs and monoii is not forthcoming, a hard-done-by wrestler will jerk his head to draw attention to his mage as he walks back to his side of the ring.  Meisei did not sink to that level.  

Yes, but the gyoji was sleeping too - should have immediately stopped the bout if he thought it was a hansoku. Meisei may have lost his chance at winning the yusho, but he won the people's respect. I had no idea that wronged rikishi did that. 

55 minutes ago, Eikokurai said:

It makes me wonder, has a rikishi ever called attention to his own defeat, whether a hansoku or a proper defeat like a heel out or something? For a sport so steeped in honour and respect, I can't say I recall any examples of that sort of sportsmanship in sumo. I guess they always have the excuse that they themselves don't know for sure they pulled hair or stepped out first, but there must be times when a rikishi knows they've gotten the rub of the green unfairly and kept silent about it.

The fact that Daieisho and potentially many others got away with it does make it a very tempting prospect for desperate or unscrupulous rikishi. It's something that is difficult to catch unless you are very very observant or the act is blatant. The victim can't bring it up right after the bout itself - and they can't bring it up after for fear of public condemnation. Furthermore, outcomes can't be changed retrospectively anyways. There's very little incentive to admit or speak out should it happen. The best one can hope for is that both parties reconcile privately. 

Edited by pricklypomegranate

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21 minutes ago, pricklypomegranate said:

Yes, but the gyoji was sleeping too - should have immediately stopped the bout if he thought it was a hansoku.

It's not the duty of the gyoji to call a hansoku and they mustn't presume anything in that area, the shimpan have to decide there

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4 minutes ago, Akinomaki said:

It's not the duty of the gyoji to call a hansoku and they mustn't presume anything in that area, the shimpan have to decide there

Also, as far as I’m aware the gyoji can only stop a bout when it hasn’t actually started because of a matta, which is not technically stopping the bout. Once it’s underway it has to be fought to a completion.

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1 minute ago, Eikokurai said:

Also, as far as I’m aware the gyoji can only stop a bout when it hasn’t actually started because of a matta, which is not technically stopping the bout. Once it’s underway it has to be fought to a completion.

Loose mawash, mizu iri.

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Just now, specialweek 2 said:

Loose mawash, mizu iri.

Those are only breaks in the bout, not stoppages. The bout is always resumed and fought to completion.

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You can see he gets some hairs from under the mage, not the mage itself which was disheveled a few seconds before.. It looks like his fingers got entangled in the hair. A few years back they decided to reword the hairpull rule to basically say that it will be called only if it directly affected the outcome of the bout. Did it? Looks like it.  Also, wasn't Meisei's hair shinitai at this point?

When i do the videos and see something out of the ordinary i usually give it a few replays. Saw it in real time and didn't think it was.  Now I'm not sure. BTW, the monoii had nothing to do with the alleged hairpull, in case anyone was  wondering. 

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19 hours ago, pricklypomegranate said:

Hikiwake is given when no clear winner can be discerned after an extremely long bout, despite efforts to reset it, such as multiple water breaks or torinaoshi. The last time was in 1974 September in M10w Mienoumi v. M6e Futagodake

I was curious to see what this looks like so I ran a search. There's a video here (starts at 1m17s):

You can also see the 引分 scroll. I'm sure they still have that somewhere, and I wonder if they'd be able to find it in time if it were to be needed again.

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