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2021 "Kozumo" Hatsu Basho discussion thread

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42 minutes ago, Houmanumi said:

I was one who had picked a 4-man Komusubi slate with out current M1's at Komusubi. My super-speculative question is; should Daieisho get the expected 11+ here and carry that form through another two tournaments; would this score from M1 be an acceptable start of an Ozeki run? 

Sure. The bigger question might be what they'll do with his 10 wins from last time if he does enough to go up straight to sekiwake for the next tournament...

On that note, I'd like to register my outrage early if Daieisho gets 12+ wins here and only gets put at komusubi, effectively screwing him a second time since that would obviously be a sekiwake promotion if they had put him at komusubi for this basho as he deserved. (In fact, that's exactly the kind of scenario that speaks against their ultra-stingy extra slot practices, rare as it may be to actually materialize.)

Edited by Asashosakari
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12 hours ago, Seregost said:

Well, it looks clear he needs a little shove from his uncle to start fighting properly xD

I actually thought he looked good overall during his first five bouts but just kept finding himself on the losing end of close matches. I don't think he'll have a problem making KK from here on out. 

I'm going to go out on a limb and say that Hoshoryu will eventually make Ozeki, if not higher. Maybe not right away, as his body still needs to fill out, but his yotsu game and ring sense are already elite.

Plus, he has his uncle to light a fire under his oshiri whenever he starts slacking. You can't buy an advantage like that. 

Edited by Kaninoyama
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20 minutes ago, Asashosakari said:

Sure. The bigger question might be what they'll do with his 10 wins from last time if he does enough to go up straight to sekiwake for the next tournament...

They've got the excuse of the Yokozunae being out + being non-sanyaku for the last tournament; I don't know if 10 wins under those conditions would be deemed impressive enough?

But if he were to go 13+ here and beat a Yokozuna or two next tournament then yeah I guess that would change things. 

Of course, he could always go the same way as his mate Takakeisho next tournament.

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1 hour ago, Houmanumi said:

I was one who had picked a 4-man Komusubi slate with out current M1's at Komusubi. My super-speculative question is; should Daieisho get the expected 11+ here and carry that form through another two tournaments; would this score from M1 be an acceptable start of an Ozeki run? 

Yes.

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15 minutes ago, Kaninoyama said:

I actually thought he looked good overall during his first five bouts but just kept finding himself on the losing end of close matches. I don't think he'll have a problem making KK from here on out. 

I'm going to go out on a limb and say that Hoshoryu will eventually make Ozeki, if not higher. Maybe not right away, as his body still needs to fill out, but his yotsu game and ring sense are already elite.

Plus, he has his uncle to light a fire under his oshiri, whenever he starts slacking. You can't buy an advantage like that. 

I had the same thought about his early losses.

I also concur with your second point. I notice he looks bigger this tournament —thicker through the midsection, in particular—so he seems to be succeeding on putting on the weight. His skills and ring sense can’t be denied. He’s got that Mongolian wrestling bag of tricks, too—trips, leg sweeps, etc. When I was watching him locked up against  Kotonowaka on day 10, I was thinking the outcome was a foregone conclusion because despite the fact that Kotonowaka was definitely  bigger and heavier, and maybe even the stronger man, Hoshoryu was far and away the more technically skilled fighter. His mental game seems totally solid, too. Never seen him look rattled. He’s going to be a major force if he stays healthy. As an aside, I like Kotonowaka a lot and think he also has great potential, plus the pedigree.

Third point you make is also on the money.

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Agree on much of that, though I think having someone who tries to fire you up when you're struggling is the norm in sumo rather than a special advantage.

Hoshoryu is adaptable, and his throw and trip game are very good; he needs to be able to provide a bit more resistance/strength when setting those up against attacking opponents though. In many of his losses he loses ground when looking for his technique, and is pushed out or down just a split second from delivering a nice move...

Anyone know his weight at the moment? I can't say that I've noticed much of an increase since he became a sekitori. I get the impression that something like Kiribayama's frame might work for him. Haramafuji got to ozeki at roughly Hoshoryu's size, but he had the type of unusual speed that Hoshoryu doesn't and was at his best more around 140kg. And I think most likely he was just plain better than Hosh too...

Ozeki and beyond still seem a way off, but you do get the sense that he has the tools to be more than a career maegashira...

Edited by Katooshu
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18 hours ago, Amamaniac said:

Well, we now have the answer to our questions: (1) Would Takakeisho withdraw from the tournament given his poor record? A: Yes; and (2) What "excuse" would be given? A: The Ozeki allegedly injured (rolled) his left ankle on day 3 in that fierce battle with Hokutofuji.  Apparently, he didn't tell his oyakata until day 5.

For more details: https://www.nikkansports.com/battle/sumo/news/202101190000234.html

So that may be a valid excuse for Takakeisho's five losses starting from day 3, but it doesn't explain his losses on the first two days...  The losing trend and the losing form was present from day 1.  

When they replayed Asanoyama's victory yesterday (IMMSMC), Takakeisho got up from his ringside zabuton immediately after the bout, and headed down the hanamichi.  There was absolutely no sign that his ankle was bothering him.  

Compare Takakeisho's pre-withdrawal condition with that of Ura who looked to be in pain after his bout yesterday, but he came back for his bout today and Terutsuyoshi who has grimaced after almost every one of his bouts this tournament with a left bicep injury, but he keeps on toughing it out.

 

I commented some days ago his ankle looked weird/swollen, I don’t think it’s some whole cloth fabrication.

Don’t forget Takakeisho has insane pain tolerance. He tore his pec with just a grimace and I’ve seen him reset his shoulder back in the socket at least once. He’s not gonna let a rolled ankle show on his face.

Edited by Tsuchinoninjin
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Poor Hokotfuji. I love how intense his matches are, but he cant seem to catch a break.

Takarafuji is rapidly becoming a fave of mine. There is just something about him that scream blue collar work ethic/ Old fashioned toughness. 

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Standard Takarafuji win = calmly take a beating, eventually the other guy goes for the non-neck, and then the other guy finds nothing and falls over :-D

Edited by Katooshu
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Ura appeared to be healthy beating Shohozan who has MK'd 6 basho in a row.  At age 36, Shohozan's career is coming to an end.

Kotoeko beats fast fading Akiseyama.   I hope he gets KK and hang around the top division.

 

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Bow twirler Shohoryu now 6-0, with a chance to move up into the sekitori ranks with a seventh win

Edited by WAKATAKE

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Kotoshoho going 0-11 is one of the biggest surprises on this basho.  I hope the kid bounces back in the next basho. 

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Hiroshi Morita impersonates Captain Obvious, talking about Daieisho: "if he wins out he is the champion because he is the leader at the moment."

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Just now, Ichimawashi said:

Hiroshi Morita impersonates Captain Obvious, talking about Daieisho: "if he wins out he is the champion because he is the leader at the moment."

That's the yogi berra moment.

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Shodai gets the chance to level up then as Daieisho drops his second bout. The natural order is returning. Shodai yusho and a tsuna run in March?

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What an incredible sequence of events to end Day 11.  This basho may end up being decided my millimeters and microseconds. 

Edited by Kaninoyama

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10 minutes ago, Eikokurai said:

Shodai gets the chance to level up then as Daieisho drops his second bout. The natural order is returning. Shodai yusho and a tsuna run in March?

Shodai still has to face the Sayuku rikishis.   I still like Daieisho's chance at the yusho.

 

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Should have been a second torinaoshi. But the news has to air at 6, and the suspenseful basho narrative must be maintained. Business as usual.

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3 minutes ago, since_94 said:

Should have been a second torinaoshi. But the news has to air at 6, and the suspenseful basho narrative must be maintained. Business as usual.

I thought Okinoumi won the first one but lost the 2nd.

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I think there will be a lot of divergent opinions on both bouts. Better to do them over when they’re that close, IMO.

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5 hours ago, WAKATAKE said:

Bow twirler Shohoryu now 6-0, with a chance to move up into the sekitori ranks with a seventh win

There is one other Makushita wrestler with a perfect record.  They have a significant rank difference ( Ms48w versus Ms 8w), so I am not sure if they will go up against each other in their final regulation bout(s).  We could well end up with a playoff in Makushita.  My only concern is that if by some strange twist of fate, Hamayutaka ends up stealing the yusho from Shohoryu, will that influence the decision on whether or not to promote Shohoryu to Juryo?  I guess we'll see how this plays out.

Edited by Amamaniac

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As for Shodai's victory by monoii, I could have gone with an Okinoumi win in the regulation bout.  Shodai was definitely heading out and more importantly both his feet were off the ground before Okinoumi's left toes crossed the bales.  It was, however, a close call, and a torinaoshi was a reasonable decision by the judges.  In the rematch, however, even though Shodai was falling back into the corner, he made sure that his feet stayed down in, and a slight twist of his body may just have pulled Okinoumi (i.e., his right toes) out first.  I definitely saw sand from the janome flying up in the fall.  Yes, another monoii would probably have been the best decision, but NHK (i.e., NHK news) is paying the bills!

The sad thing is that Shikimori Inosuke gets another gunbai sashichigae, and will have to submit his resignation once again.  Talk about a cat having nine lives!  How many "lives" has this "cat" lost now?  Something tells me he has sold his tanto short sword, and replaced the blade with bamboo...

Edited by Amamaniac
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2 hours ago, robnplunder said:

Kotoshoho going 0-11 is one of the biggest surprises on this basho.  I hope the kid bounces back in the next basho. 

I agree that it's very surprising to see. He can bounce back though. Onosho recovered well from his 0-13 start back in July. 

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