Kintamayama 44,399 Posted November 23, 2020 (edited) The YDC (Yokozuna Deliberation Council, a group (usually aged) of sumo aficionados of high ranking in their respective fields, appointed by the Kyokai to oversee the Yokozunae and their actions on and off the dohyo) convened today and came up with a real stern warning to the Yokozunae - "caution", which is worse than what Kisenosato got back then for missing eight bashos. The second harshest reprimand, only better than "Intai recommendation", and worse than "encouragement", which is what Kisenosato got. It's the first time this warning was issued. "They are kyujo a lot so a "caution" was needed to stir things up. We hope they will prepare themselves well for the next basho. Out of the last 12 bashos, there were only four where they both appeared. Two thirds of the time, they have been out." After last basho, the YDC deliberated if they should issue an "encouragement" but didn't in the end. "We expected both of them to enter, but both went kyujo. We can't say they fulfilled their duties as Yokozunae. We may have issued a sterner warning than usual, but we wish to urge the Yokozunae to be fully aware of their situation. Both of them going kyujo together seems to show that they don't understand the importance of their duties and the situation they have got themselves into. In the end, it's up to them. We cannot force them, but there are Yokozunae and their not appearing for the basho cannot go on for long.." As for a more serious warning, they will see what the results in January will be and decide then. Bottom line- they can't actually do anything about it, but they can buzz around the Kyokai's ears. Edited November 23, 2020 by Kintamayama 6 5 1 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jakusotsu 5,817 Posted November 23, 2020 33 minutes ago, Kintamayama said: Bottom line- they can't actually do anything about it, but they can buzz around the Kyokai's ears. Replace "Kyokai" with "Forum", and a certain controversial member comes to mind... 1 2 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gurowake 3,932 Posted November 23, 2020 Uh, nothing about Takakeisho? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Seiyashi 4,071 Posted November 23, 2020 1 hour ago, Gurowake said: Uh, nothing about Takakeisho? Going by Isegahama's statement yesterday, there's no hint of a promotion for Takakeisho this basho, especially not after "only" a 12-3 JY and 13-2 Y in very soft bashos. The shimpanbu probably didn't see fit to put it on the YDC's agenda, and in any case the YDC cares little for ozeki until they are actually about to get the rope. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Churaumi 728 Posted November 23, 2020 I did see something on Twitter about Isegahama saying a yusho with strong sumo next tournament will be enough. I think it was Herutto's tweet. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kintamayama 44,399 Posted November 23, 2020 1 hour ago, Churaumi said: I did see something on Twitter about Isegahama saying a yusho with strong sumo next tournament will be enough. I think it was Herutto's tweet. I quoted him on the rikishi talk thread yesterday. His words were "If it will be a low level yusho, questions may arise.." 2 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rzombie1988 157 Posted November 23, 2020 (edited) I believe both Hakuho and Kakuryu should wrestle or step down. It is just too much of an advantage to be able to take months off and heal up while others have to wrestle six 15 match tournaments a year and get punished hard if they get injured doing it. I believe Shaq could maybe come back for one night and have a 20 point game if he trained hard for it. But I don't believe he would be able to hold up for a full season. I believe the same with Kakuryu and Hakuho. ---- And unless we are extending the Yokozuna process again, Takakeisho should get the rope as he hit the same requirements Kakuryu and Kisenosato did, though obviously there's reasons to be concerned due to his lesser early year. Edited November 23, 2020 by rzombie1988 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Hakuryuho 334 Posted November 23, 2020 (edited) 15 minutes ago, rzombie1988 said: I believe both Hakuho and Kakuryu should wrestle or step down. It is just too much of an advantage to be able to take months off and heal up while others have to wrestle six 15 match tournaments a year and get punished hard if they get injured doing it. Didn't we already have this discussion a few months back? Being able to sit out bashos is not an advantage, it's a hard-earned privilege granted only to those at the very top of the sport. Hakuho and Kakuryu are able to have this "advantage" because of their rank, but they had to get there first. They had to be in every basho, fight all 15 days, otherwise they wouldn't have fulfilled the requirement of 33 wins over 3 bashos to get promoted to Ozeki and the equivalent of two yusho in a row to get to Yokozuna. If a rikishi wants to take a few months off he can do so! He just has to go through all the stages required for becoming a Yokozuna, just like every other Yokozuna had to do so before him. Edited November 23, 2020 by Hakuryuho 6 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rzombie1988 157 Posted November 23, 2020 (edited) 2 hours ago, Hakuryuho said: Didn't we already have this discussion a few months back? Being able to sit out bashos is not an advantage, it's a hard-earned privilege granted only to those at the very top of the sport. Hakuho and Kakuryu are able to have this "advantage" because of their rank, but they had to get there first. They had to be in every basho, fight all 15 days, otherwise they wouldn't have fulfilled the requirement of 33 wins over 3 bashos to get promoted to Ozeki and the equivalent of two yusho in a row to get to Yokozuna. If a rikishi wants to take a few months off he can do so! He just has to go through all the stages required for becoming a Yokozuna, just like every other Yokozuna had to do so before him. Yes we did and I still feel the same way. If I'm Kagayaki, I'd prefer to have Hakuho's 23 matches this year or Kakuryu's 13 matches this year over the 65 matches he had. That's up to 52 extra chances of getting injured plus all the fatigue and wear and tear that comes with a sumo match. That's a major advantage. And as a fan, I want to see the Yokozuna competing in every tournament. In my ideal world, there would be match completion requirements per 2 years for Yokozuna(we'll just stick with Yokozuna for this topic). Obviously, it's not reality, but it's something I would like to see. Hopefully the JSA/YDC forces their hand. Edited November 23, 2020 by rzombie1988 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Rocks 1,807 Posted November 23, 2020 2 hours ago, Hakuryuho said: Didn't we already have this discussion a few months back? Being able to sit out bashos is not an advantage, it's a hard-earned privilege granted only to those at the very top of the sport. Hakuho and Kakuryu are able to have this "advantage" because of their rank, but they had to get there first. They had to be in every basho, fight all 15 days, otherwise they wouldn't have fulfilled the requirement of 33 wins over 3 bashos to get promoted to Ozeki and the equivalent of two yusho in a row to get to Yokozuna. If a rikishi wants to take a few months off he can do so! He just has to go through all the stages required for becoming a Yokozuna, just like every other Yokozuna had to do so before him. I don't disgree with you but I don't know why you would say it isn't an advantage or even put that in quotes. Even if well earned it is none the less a great advantage. There are other things which balance this though. Yokozuna can't be demoted and come back. They must retire. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Atenzan 1,074 Posted November 23, 2020 9 hours ago, Kintamayama said: came up with a real stern warning to the Yokozunae - "caution", which is worse than what Kisenosato got back then for missing eight bashos. 4 hours ago, Kintamayama said: "If it will be a low level yusho, questions may arise.." Man, who pissed in their cornflakes? Has the YDC ever been this strict? Putting Hakuhou, who is at least as good as anyone while active and having won a yusho as recently as March, at the same level of caution as Kakuryuu? More dramatically, hinting that consecutive yushos at ozeki isn't necessarily enough to merit a promotion? I can't make head or tail of this, but one thing is clear- sympathy for Konishiki's whingeing is about to run drier than ever. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Eikokurai 3,433 Posted November 23, 2020 (edited) 5 hours ago, rzombie1988 said: And unless we are extending the Yokozuna process again, Takakeisho should get the rope as he hit the same requirements Kakuryu and Kisenosato did Nah. Not even close. Kakuryu’s promotion was a tiny bit softer than some but still came off the back of two 14-1 basho in which the only obstacle to his winning a playoff in the first was Hakuho in his prime. It was as good a ‘yusho equivalent’ as you’ll ever see. Kisenosato meanwhile had a history of 12 jun-yusho (11 as Ozeki) and a 31-basho streak at Ozeki which included only one makekoshi (a mere 7-8) and 23 double-digit kachikoshi. Takakeisho is off to a solid start but hasn’t yet equalled Kakuryu and Kisenosato’s achievements. Edited November 23, 2020 by Eikokurai 3 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Rocks 1,807 Posted November 24, 2020 4 hours ago, Atenzan said: Man, who pissed in their cornflakes? Has the YDC ever been this strict? Putting Hakuhou, who is at least as good as anyone while active and having won a yusho as recently as March, at the same level of caution as Kakuryuu? More dramatically, hinting that consecutive yushos at ozeki isn't necessarily enough to merit a promotion? I can't make head or tail of this, but one thing is clear- sympathy for Konishiki's whingeing is about to run drier than ever. I think both are aimed at Kakuryu and spreading it out is so it doesn't seem that way. Not singling him out so it doesn't seem personal. The only thing I think they care about with Hakuho is that he tries to show up when no other Yokozuna will be present. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pricklypomegranate 730 Posted November 24, 2020 (edited) Source: https://www.nikkansports.com/battle/sumo/news/202011240000605.html?utm_source=twitter&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=nikkansports_ogp So, Miyagino has acknowledged that both he and Hakuho have received the caution. "We have received the resolution by the Committee and are taking it seriously. Both teacher and student will strive to fulfil Yokozuna responsibilities." replied the long-suffering oyakata. Good luck Hakuho, but I have full confidence he will escape the blade this time. Kakuryu is the one that I am more concerned about. I hope he and his oyakata put out a statement soon and wish him even greater luck. Edited November 24, 2020 by pricklypomegranate 1 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Koorifuu 886 Posted November 24, 2020 Is the YDC working together with Japan's Ministry of Justice to absolutely prevent Kakuryu from getting those citizenship papers, or what? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Seiyashi 4,071 Posted November 24, 2020 (edited) 52 minutes ago, pricklypomegranate said: Source: https://www.nikkansports.com/battle/sumo/news/202011240000605.html?utm_source=twitter&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=nikkansports_ogp So, Miyagino has acknowledged that both he and Hakuho have received the caution. "We have received the resolution by the Committee and are taking it seriously. Both teacher and student will strive to fulfil Yokozuna responsibilities." replied the long-suffering oyakata. Good luck Hakuho, but I have full confidence he will escape the blade this time. Kakuryu is the one that I am more concerned about. I hope he and his oyakata put out a statement soon and wish him even greater luck. 白鵬と鶴竜「注意」は適正か 横審に疑問の声 稀勢の里は8場所連続休場でも「激励」止まり - zakzak:夕刊フジ公式サイト Crossing the streams a little, but @pricklypomegranate you're not the only one who questions the YDC's double standards. That said, not like there's a snowball's chance in hell of the YDC backpedalling though. And fan support alone won't get Kakuryu through his hump, unless Kiribayama fights Kakuryu's bouts for him wearing a fat suit and a mask. Edited November 24, 2020 by Seiyashi 1 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kintamayama 44,399 Posted November 24, 2020 3 hours ago, Seiyashi said: 白鵬と鶴竜「注意」は適正か 横審に疑問の声 稀勢の里は8場所連続休場でも「激励」止まり - zakzak:夕刊フジ公式サイト Crossing the streams a little, but @pricklypomegranate you're not the only one who questions the YDC's double standards. That said, not like there's a snowball's chance in hell of the YDC backpedalling though. And fan support alone won't get Kakuryu through his hump, unless Kiribayama fights Kakuryu's bouts for him wearing a fat suit and a mask. Yuukan Fuji is a famous tabloid rag yellow paper, always looking for sensations. I wouldn't trust their sumo reporting as far as I can throw Tobizaru. 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kintamayama 44,399 Posted November 24, 2020 4 hours ago, pricklypomegranate said: Source: https://www.nikkansports.com/battle/sumo/news/202011240000605.html?utm_source=twitter&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=nikkansports_ogp So, Miyagino has acknowledged that both he and Hakuho have received the caution. "We have received the resolution by the Committee and are taking it seriously. Both teacher and student will strive to fulfil Yokozuna responsibilities." replied the long-suffering oyakata. Good luck Hakuho, but I have full confidence he will escape the blade this time. Kakuryu is the one that I am more concerned about. I hope he and his oyakata put out a statement soon and wish him even greater luck. The article also noted that Chairman Yano fell short of specifically demanding they enter January. A "heavy punishment" may come about after next basho, depending on their results. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Swami 245 Posted November 24, 2020 Kakuryu definitely needs to retire if he can't get through the first week in January, Hakuho is running out of leeway as well. If both Yokozuna were to retire in January, it might actually spur one of the hopefuls to seal a promotion run, much like 1992 after the retirement of all four Yokozuna, and Konishiki's promotion attempt failed, eventually Akebono emerged with two consecutive yusho. Swami Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Hakuhonofan 334 Posted November 24, 2020 (edited) One thing I can say is, Hakuho knows his body very well. If he doesn't think he is in optimal condition to finish the 15 days, he will not enter and risk reinjury. The bashos he dropped in the middle were because he felt he could, but got reinjured fighting. Edited November 24, 2020 by Hakuhonofan Misspelling Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Akinomaki 39,901 Posted November 24, 2020 18 hours ago, Atenzan said: 23 hours ago, Kintamayama said: "If it will be a low level yusho, questions may arise.." Man, who pissed in their cornflakes? Has the YDC ever been this strict? Putting Hakuhou, who is at least as good as anyone while active and having won a yusho as recently as March, at the same level of caution as Kakuryuu? More dramatically, hinting that consecutive yushos at ozeki isn't necessarily enough to merit a promotion? I can't make head or tail of this, but one thing is clear- sympathy for Konishiki's whingeing is about to run drier than ever. YDC chief Yano is innocent in the case of the Takakeisho comment - that was Isegahama. On 23/11/2020 at 16:56, Gurowake said: Uh, nothing about Takakeisho? Of course the YDC/Yano also had something to say about Takakeisho, the papers simply all rushed to the yokozuna bashing first. Sponichi reported the comments on Takakeisho: "He was splendid, overflowing with immense vigor. We highly value that he together with Terunofuji brought (the basho to) a climax, while the yokozuna were absent." And about the yokozuna run: "I want him to gambarize the same as this basho" 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jakusotsu 5,817 Posted November 24, 2020 I fear we'll have the very same discussion about Hakuho next year after the Olympics were postponed once again... 2 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Mightyduck 67 Posted November 24, 2020 On 23/11/2020 at 23:21, Atenzan said: Man, who pissed in their cornflakes? Has the YDC ever been this strict? Putting Hakuhou, who is at least as good as anyone while active and having won a yusho as recently as March, at the same level of caution as Kakuryuu? More dramatically, hinting that consecutive yushos at ozeki isn't necessarily enough to merit a promotion? I can't make head or tail of this, but one thing is clear- sympathy for Konishiki's whingeing is about to run drier than ever. They could be slightly annoyed that hak destroyed everyone at the group practices, then dropped out without a 'new' injury. 4 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Halian 7 Posted November 25, 2020 Both yokozuna have a very pressing need to shit or get off the pot, and I see a line for the bathroom. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rzombie1988 157 Posted November 25, 2020 (edited) On 23/11/2020 at 18:21, Atenzan said: Man, who pissed in their cornflakes? Has the YDC ever been this strict? Putting Hakuhou, who is at least as good as anyone while active and having won a yusho as recently as March, at the same level of caution as Kakuryuu? More dramatically, hinting that consecutive yushos at ozeki isn't necessarily enough to merit a promotion? I can't make head or tail of this, but one thing is clear- sympathy for Konishiki's whingeing is about to run drier than ever. I have no doubt that like a Tim Duncan could return for one night or a small stretch of games and do very well. I have a lot of doubts on whether he could do that for 82 games. I think that Hakuho can win one basho after many months off, but I'm doubting whether he can do that if he had to wrestle every match. Now the problem here is that while anyone under Ozeki has to not only wrestle but do well in 65-90 matches each year. Kakuryu only had to wrestle 16 times this year and Hakuho only had to wrestle 32 times this year. It's a major advantage to only have to wrestle a 1/5th to 1/2 of the matches other people do. It's a lot less wear and tear and it's a lot less chances for injuries. It sucks for the fans who don't get to see the top ranked wrestlers wrestle. It sucks for the promoters who have to convince people to buy tickets and sponsorships for an event where the two most important people might not even show up. It sucks for the wrestlers who can't get kinboshi, can't make the headlines for grabbing a big win over a Yok and can't get better by wrestling against better talent. Edited November 25, 2020 by rzombie1988 3 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites