Hokuseiho - Shot at a record?

[Reonito 1,335]

57 minutes ago, pricklypomegranate said:

Guys, I just realised, with Hokuseiho at M15W and Abi at M16E, there likely could be Hokuseiho v. Abi.

Except that Abi is still suspended for one for more tournament.

[pricklypomegranate 730]

32 minutes ago, Reonito said:

Except that Abi is still suspended for one for more tournament.

Sorry, wasn't aware of that. 

51 minutes ago, Yamanashi said:

Hokuseiho looks pretty awesome physically; if he learned any throws in Mongolia, he could become a real force of Nature.

You know what would be the icing on the cake, the Mongolian style trips and sweeps. He's got legs for days. Just as long he doesn't pull off a Kakuryu 

[Seiyashi 4,071]

9 hours ago, Asashosakari said:

I would guess being a freshman year member of a university sumo club isn't all that different, so I doubt the collegiate guys need it explained what it means to be an ozumo rookie.

But then why are foreign members of university sumo clubs required to undergo this stage? That's the distinction I'm trying to point out.

[Akinomaki 39,771]

3 hours ago, Yamanashi said:

Also, nearby in the banzuke is the dreaded Oshoryu vs Shohoryu, which probably sounds more clunky in English than in Japanese.  I'm rooting for them both to make sekitori so they can battle Hoshoryu and give Morita Hiro a sprained tongue.

Hokuseiho looks pretty awesome physically; if he learned any throws in Mongolia, he could become a real force of Nature.

The throws Hokuseiho learned till age 4 and maybe a few holidays in Mongolia, won't have much effect on his natural force.

[Tigerboy1966 1,376]

With no heya conflicts I can see, it looks as though the big lad might start his January campaign against Asabenkei, a big-hoss near-veteran with a good all-round game who has been in juryo a few times. Your education starts here golden boy!

[Nantonoyama 246]

Given his banzuke position, Hokuseiho could set another record : a direct jonokuchi to juryo trip in 4 basho on his debut. He would obviously be the first to do so in the modern era. Although not the first to do so at all, since Hokutokuni, a former sekitori who fell all the way down to jonokuchi, did it in 2011, although with two massive banzuke luck occurrences (big boost from all the scandal-related intai + promoted with 5-2 at ms9)

[Seiyashi 4,071]

25 minutes ago, Nantonoyama said:

Given his banzuke position, Hokuseiho could set another record : a direct jonokuchi to juryo trip in 4 basho on his debut. He would obviously be the first to do so in the modern era. Although not the first to do so at all, since Hokutokuni, a former sekitori who fell all the way down to jonokuchi, did it in 2011, although with two massive banzuke luck occurrences (big boost from all the scandal-related intai + promoted with 5-2 at ms9)

So it means he'll break the record for fastest shin-sekitori, but will tie the record for sekitori (whether shin or sai) from jonokuchi?

[pricklypomegranate 730]

NHK did a news item on Hokuseiho. I hate to sound like a tabloid, but enclosed within is shocking footage of Dai-Yokozuna Hakuho defeated by a rather large Sandanme rikishi with questionable technique. I would throw some zabuton, but this looked straight after Hakuho's knee surgery a couple months ago - he seemed to have trouble generating any power. This might not be good look for current sekitori slate either. The rising star is ambitious and very technically perceptive, as we shall see:

"I too want to make the record [of consecutive wins from maezumo]. If I lose once, I won't make it, so I want to win 7 consecutive wins. In high school, I was taught how to cut the mawashi while holding it. However, the Yokozuna's technique is unique and different from what I was taught in high school. I had a longing for someone like that teaching me and am grateful [it materialised]. If I win the Hatsu basho, being a shin-juryo will open up a little. My dream is to be a yokozuna and I will do my best in keiko." 

Hakuho: "I believe he has the power to make makuuchi this year." 

Of course, with Hakuho's sabotage/help, Hokuseiho will likely have to wait till Haru to attempt this feat. I hope the rising star doesn't lose momentum and uses his extra time wisely... 

Edited January 7, 2021 by pricklypomegranate

[Seiyashi 4,071]

1 hour ago, pricklypomegranate said:

Of course, with Hakuho's sabotage/help, Hokuseiho will likely have to wait till Haru to attempt this feat. I hope the rising star doesn't lose momentum and uses his extra time wisely... 

On the contrary, the extra time may well help him if he develops his technique with that time. The problem is, it's definitely going to permanently put a question mark next to his record, since it's arguable that it's a 21-0, 0-0-7, then a X-0.

That said, I don't think it matters in the long run if he storms into Juryo within three more basho afterward.

[Akinomaki 39,771]

1 minute ago, Seiyashi said:

On the contrary, the extra time may well help him if he develops his technique with that time. The problem is, it's definitely going to permanently put a question mark next to his record, since it's arguable that it's a 21-0, 0-0-7, then a X-0.

That said, I don't think it matters in the long run if he storms into Juryo within three more basho afterward.

The record of wins in a row is independent from a complete kyujo in the middle.

[Seiyashi 4,071]

4 minutes ago, Akinomaki said:

The record of wins in a row is independent from a complete kyujo in the middle.

I'm willing to concede the point, although I'd argue that the record of wins from entry into sumo is so intimately tied up with rank that the kyujo will loom large. In the normal state of affairs, if anyone goes kyujo, that's back down the banzuke you go, and you won't be in the makushita joi with 28 wins.

That notwithstanding, the extra time to train is still going to be an "unfair" advantage, isn't it? That's also what I was getting at. It's impressive to get 28 wins and to the makushita joi within 6 months of entering pro sumo. Hokuseiho's record, if he does set it, is going to be over a longer time frame, and that will take some lustre off it no matter what.

[pricklypomegranate 730]

45 minutes ago, Seiyashi said:

I'm willing to concede the point, although I'd argue that the record of wins from entry into sumo is so intimately tied up with rank that the kyujo will loom large. In the normal state of affairs, if anyone goes kyujo, that's back down the banzuke you go, and you won't be in the makushita joi with 28 wins.

That notwithstanding, the extra time to train is still going to be an "unfair" advantage, isn't it? That's also what I was getting at. It's impressive to get 28 wins and to the makushita joi within 6 months of entering pro sumo. Hokuseiho's record, if he does set it, is going to be over a longer time frame, and that will take some lustre off it no matter what.

Yeah, I agree with @Akinomaki - since the kyujo is out of his control (possibly even out of Hakuho's control, it remains to be seen) he'll still get both records (consecutive wins + fastest juryo) if he make 7-0 in Haru. I think the 5 basho sekitori rise will make up for the lost lustre. I don't think any informed and reasonable observer will hold it against him - he had absolutely no control over what happened there and besides, his jonokuchi debut was already delayed anyways. By the logic, he should have been in banzuke-gai or at least redo maezumo again. 

Edited January 7, 2021 by pricklypomegranate

[Kaito 275]

2 hours ago, Seiyashi said:

I'm willing to concede the point, although I'd argue that the record of wins from entry into sumo is so intimately tied up with rank that the kyujo will loom large. In the normal state of affairs, if anyone goes kyujo, that's back down the banzuke you go, and you won't be in the makushita joi with 28 wins.

That notwithstanding, the extra time to train is still going to be an "unfair" advantage, isn't it? That's also what I was getting at. It's impressive to get 28 wins and to the makushita joi within 6 months of entering pro sumo. Hokuseiho's record, if he does set it, is going to be over a longer time frame, and that will take some lustre off it no matter what.

The 2 extra months should increase his chances of keeping the streak going, but it's hardly unfair. Normally the people contesting this record are university grads that have had several extra years to train and mature physically before going pro. If he were to go 7-0 next basho, I think it'd be the most impressive start to a career ever, and by a lot.

[Yamanashi 3,724]

I don't see why there should be an asterisk next to his name under these circumstances.  To me a heya absence or a basho cancellation is completely outside the realm of Sumo performance.  To me, it makes no more sense than to asterisk a rikishi's performance because of the cancellation of the 2011 Osaka tournament.

[Asashosakari 18,786]

5 hours ago, Seiyashi said:

That notwithstanding, the extra time to train is still going to be an "unfair" advantage, isn't it? That's also what I was getting at. It's impressive to get 28 wins and to the makushita joi within 6 months of entering pro sumo. Hokuseiho's record, if he does set it, is going to be over a longer time frame, and that will take some lustre off it no matter what.

 

1 hour ago, Yamanashi said:

I don't see why there should be an asterisk next to his name under these circumstances.  To me a heya absence or a basho cancellation is completely outside the realm of Sumo performance.  To me, it makes no more sense than to asterisk a rikishi's performance because of the cancellation of the 2011 Osaka tournament.

Indeed, I've never seen Hokutokuni's record-setting rise from maezumo to sai-juryo getting asterisked because there was a four-month break in between tournaments at one point.

Edited January 7, 2021 by Asashosakari

[Seiyashi 4,071]

I am very convinced now and I humbly apologise for my presumption 

[WAKATAKE 2,631]

I have no issue counting any additional wins he gets in Haru if he is forced to sit out this basho. If he was injured and decided to sit out that's one thing, but this these are extraordinary circumstances beyond his control that are not allowing him to participate.

[Kaminariyuki 497]

Well, finally, it looks like we're about to find out. The extra two months of working with the top rikishi from Miyagino beya should have truly given him a shot at a run, as long as he didn't injure himself in practice.

Of course, now I wish we'd chatted more with the kid when we were at asageiko a couple of months before Hokuseiho was maezumo, but my Japanese is still awfully thin. Certainly didn't improve this past year. I wonder if heya visits will ever be possible again... We can only hope.

Banzai Hokuseiho! 

[Katooshu 3,135]

There's a good recent keiko report that another poster wrote --- in 20 or so matches Hokuseiho went just a bit better than 50-50 vs other makushita rikishi and looked solid but still with much work to do. Another zensho would surprise me, and at this rank in his 4th basho, straight from high school, I think any KK would be a nice result.

I'd like to see him vs Kitanowaka, who easily beat him in all the high school matches I saw them have vs one another. Let's see how much he's improved.

Edited March 11, 2021 by Katooshu

[Kaminariyuki 497]

1 hour ago, Katooshu said:

There's good recent keiko report that another poster wrote --- in 20 or so matches Hokuseiho went just a bit better than 50-50 vs other makushita rikishi and looked solid but still with much work to do. Another zensho would surprise me, and at this rank in his 4th basho, straight from high school, I think any KK would be a nice result.

I'd like to see him vs Kitanowaka, who easily beat him in all the high school matches I saw them have vs one another. Let's see how much he's improved.

Thanks, I hadn't seen that other post. the forum is large and my attention is sporadic. I completely agree with your analysis. A KK would be impressive enough, but I'd like to be surprised by a straight run to juryo.

[pricklypomegranate 730]

New information about Hokuseiho was revealed during the Hakuho documentary which aired today at 1530 JST. If I come across a copy, I will update the post here. Apparently, he had a mental block whilst training in Tottori Johoku, and thus quit and went back to Hokkaido. However, convinced of his talent, Hakuho persuaded him to go back after meeting him at a jungyo there. Really makes you wonder about all the talent that could have made it, had they someone like Hakuho to intervene and motivate them. As Miyagino-oyakata has shown with Hakuho, if even one generational talent could be saved, sumo history would change forever. Miyagino-beya certainly has a penchant for chance meetings. 

Edited March 13, 2021 by pricklypomegranate

[orandashoho 720]

That should convince anyone who has still doubts about Hakuho's quality as Oyakata and shisho.

[rhyen 1,809]

10 hours ago, pricklypomegranate said:

New information about Hokuseiho was revealed during the Hakuho documentary which aired today at 1530 JST. If I come across a copy, I will update the post here. Apparently, he had a mental block whilst training in Tottori Johoku, and thus quit and went back to Hokkaido. However, convinced of his talent, Hakuho persuaded him to go back after meeting him at a jungyo there. Really makes you wonder about all the talent that could have made it, had they someone like Hakuho to intervene and motivate them. As Miyagino-oyakata has shown with Hakuho, if even one generational talent could be saved, sumo history would change forever. Miyagino-beya certainly has a penchant for chance meetings. 

https://www.bilibili.com/video/BV15N411Q7s6

[WAKATAKE 2,631]

6 hours ago, orandashoho said:

That should convince anyone who has still doubts about Hakuho's quality as Oyakata and shisho.

Hakuho without a mage is going to take some getting used to looking at

[rhyen 1,809]

2 hours ago, WAKATAKE said:

Hakuho without a mage is going to take some getting used to looking at

How about a mullet?