Kaminariyuki

Hokuseiho - Shot at a record?

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3 hours ago, pricklypomegranate said:

So, yikes. The sumo spirits are really not with him, but I hope Hokuseiho might just break out of the curse

One thing in his favour is his age. Of the other men on the list, eight of them were at least 22 when they started their run. The only other teenager is the one who almost went all the way- Tochiazuma.

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5 hours ago, pricklypomegranate said:

Tsurugisho - Five consecutive make-koshi streak and not doing particularly fantastic in Juryo right now. 

To be fair, he had to be wheeled out Hatsu 2020 and dropped out of Haru 2020, thanks to that Hatsu injury which still bugs him.

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No matter the records and the curses, congratulations to Hokuseiho. Nicely done!

And, kid, you cook a pretty mean lunch, too! I think Tigerboy1966 was the first to bring him truly to my attention and the strange thing was that he's in the background of my icon, a shot I took in January of this year, visiting Miyagino Beya shortly before the end of all visits to all heya, I suspect, for a long while. Hopefully, the vaccines will work well and be widely distributed quickly and 2021 will be a friendlier year.

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When a rikishi is so much taller than their opponent they can often still get good leverage and power even when facing what would be a grip-disadvantage for most rikishi. So it may not be as much as a problem as it appears that his opponents can often get a hold inside on him, and he does seem to bend more and lean well when it's called for--as mentioned, he knows his body and how to use it effectively. Being so unusually tall, his sumo is going to look different.

That said, he is still a bit rough around the edges and slow, and I think his progress will ease up significantly from now, but that's to be expected with such a big jump up the rankings. He hasn't really faced any particularly tough tests, but at the same time there have been some solid wins in there, beating fellow good high schoolers in Ofukusawa and Nihonyanagi, a couple experienced collegiate rikishi, and a big foriegner who came with lots of fire. All opponents, who, though with limitations, are fresh and on the way up themselves. 

He made huge progress from his 2nd year in high school to his 3rd, and I expect him to keep improving for a while. He already looks more composed than I was used to seeing him as an amateur.

Edited by Katooshu
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13 hours ago, Benihana said:

To be fair, he had to be wheeled out Hatsu 2020 and dropped out of Haru 2020, thanks to that Hatsu injury which still bugs him.

I'm honestly afraid that the rest of his career will be plagued by that, just as Endo's and Jokoryu's are. Yago is another guy who's in the same boat, and I slightly suspect Yutakayama too.

Edited by Koorifuu

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Greeting Hokuseiho Sandanme yusho I noticed (via sumodb) that Mikumayama Yoshio won 2 consecutive Sandanme yushos in the year of 1929. Nowdays it is impossible to go for another yusho in Sandanme, probably. But can anybody say something about the after sumo life of that rikishi? 

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9 hours ago, Urmashiyama said:

Greeting Hokuseiho Sandanme yusho I noticed (via sumodb) that Mikumayama Yoshio won 2 consecutive Sandanme yushos in the year of 1929. Nowdays it is impossible to go for another yusho in Sandanme, probably. But can anybody say something about the after sumo life of that rikishi? 

Mikumayama had his career during the 4BPY system, which is vastly different from the 6BPY system. Yes, it is nearly impossible for a rikishi to win two Sandanme yushos consecutively because they would be promoted straight to Makushita. The only exception is if they were very very low on the banzuke (<Sd90+). I am not sure which rikishi you want more information on from the post's syntax, but if you want details on Mikumayama you're out of luck - even our sumo record on him is incomplete. However, if you want information on Hokuseiho, he is Hakuho's sixth deshi. (As far as we know, the order is Daikiho (retired), Ishiura, Enho, Toma, Senho and Hokuseiho, but he could very well have had more deshi). He also serves as Ishiura's tsukebito. He was born in Mongolia, but came to Hokkaido when he was 5. Around that time, he met Hakuho at a Korean airport, and the yokozuna invited him to join his heya when he was older. So, according to John Gunning's article, the family got into a sumo craze since then, and Hokuseiho found himself in Tottori Johoku highschool, where Ishiura's father is the principal and sumo coach. Currently, he seems to be very diligent in his daily exercises like doing >200 teppo strikes a day and training with the three Miyagino sekitori. He has very high hopes of winning the title at every level, and getting to sekitori in 6 basho. Before his three titles, Hakuho did come to advise and encourage him in the heya. It's nice to see a hands-on shisho. 

Also little known fact: Enho being from Ishikawa, seems to be the odd one out not being from Tottori Johoku, but he was in fact very familiar with Ishiura's father. That's how Hakuho got the video of his college performances and recruited him. So yes, although Ishiura does not get much press these days, it does seem that he is a very important connection to the "outside". 

Edited by pricklypomegranate
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22 minutes ago, pricklypomegranate said:

Mikumayama had his career during the 4BPY system, which is vastly different from the 6BPY system. Yes, it is nearly impossible for a rikishi to win two Sandanme yushos consecutively because they would be promoted straight to Makushita. The only exception is if they were very very low on the banzuke (<Sd90+). I am not sure which rikishi you want more information on from the post's syntax, but if you want details on Mikumayama you're out of luck - even our sumo record on him is incomplete. However, if you want information on Hokuseiho, he is Hakuho's sixth deshi. (As far as we know, the order is Daikiho (retired), Ishiura, Enho, Toma, Senho and Hokuseiho, but he could very well have had more deshi). He also serves as Ishiura's tsukebito. He was born in Mongolia, but came to Hokkaido when he was 5. Around that time, he met Hakuho at a Korean airport, and the yokozuna invited him to join his heya when he was older. So, according to John Gunning's article, the family got into a sumo craze since then, and Hokuseiho found himself in Tottori Johoku highschool, where Ishiura's father is the principal and sumo coach. Currently, he seems to be very diligent in his daily exercises like doing >200 teppo strikes a day and training with the three Miyagino sekitori. He has very high hopes of winning the title at every level, and getting to sekitori in 6 basho. Before his three titles, Hakuho did come to advise and encourage him in the heya. It's nice to see a hands-on shisho. 

Also little known fact: Enho being from Ishikawa, seems to be the odd one out not being from Tottori Johoku, but he was in fact very familiar with Ishiura's father. That's how Hakuho got the video of his college performances and recruited him. So yes, although Ishiura does not get much press these days, it does seem that he is a very important connection to the "outside". 

The most important thing to note is not just did Mikuyama have his career during the 4BPY system, his two sandanme yusho were in the immediate aftermath of the merger of Osaka sumo and Tokyo sumo. Not just was Tokyo sumo superior to Osaka sumo, they attempted a hybrid system where performance at each basho counted not for the next basho, but the basho after that. So the net effect was that they were running 2 banzuke that updated alternately, and therefore Mikuyama might have been at sandanme for 2 basho and hence had a double opportunity to win two sandanme yusho.

Thankfully that madness went away after a while.

Edited by Seiyashi
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If you go 7-0 at the bottom of Sanhanme now, you will be promoted to Makushita.  Both Oyanagi (Yutakayama) and Shiraishi did that from Sd100TD.  The lowest non-TD 7-0 in Sandanme since 1970 is Sd99w, who did get promoted to Makushita as well.  The only way not to get promoted to Makushita would be to retire first.  (That happened in 1970)

http://sumodb.sumogames.de/Query.aspx?show_form=0&amp;form1_rank=sd90-sd100&amp;form1_wins=7&amp;form1_year=1970-2020

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10 hours ago, Kaminariyuki said:

Hey, anyone know if the kid's got his chonmage yet?

Nope, he does not have his chonmage yet. Usually if a Miyagino-beya rikishi gets one, it'll be on the heya's Instagram page, and I don't see it there yet. 

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16 hours ago, John Gunning said:

129055720-10159363690270931-363445155762

No mage yet. 

Do you know anything about which heya Delgerbayar may be headed to?

Edited by Katooshu

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On 16/12/2020 at 20:19, John Gunning said:

129055720-10159363690270931-363445155762

No mage yet. 

They're getting fashionable I see

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I'm gonna go out on a limb here and say he'll be ranked somewhere around Ms15 and will lose at least once next basho—maybe twice. Those guys are no pushovers and they'll be more than happy to try and break the streak, even if it means using a henka.

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On 18/12/2020 at 07:15, dada78641 said:

I'm gonna go out on a limb here and say he'll be ranked somewhere around Ms15 and will lose at least once next basho—maybe twice. Those guys are no pushovers and they'll be more than happy to try and break the streak, even if it means using a henka.

Yes, I suspect you are correct, but since I got to see him in asakeiko before he went maezumo, I'm pulling for the kid...

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On 17/12/2020 at 15:39, Katooshu said:

Do you know anything about which heya Delgerbayar may be headed to?

Naruto, according to Nikkan Sports today.

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11 minutes ago, Kamitsuumi said:

Naruto, according to Nikkan Sports today.

There's also apparently some new(?) requirement that foreign wrestlers have a "break in" period at a heya before they can undergo the shindeshi kensa. New(?) because apparently Shishi underwent it, but we struggle to think of other, more famous, foreign recruits who have done the same. 

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1 hour ago, Seiyashi said:

There's also apparently some new(?) requirement that foreign wrestlers have a "break in" period at a heya before they can undergo the shindeshi kensa. New(?) because apparently Shishi underwent it, but we struggle to think of other, more famous, foreign recruits who have done the same. 

I do recall that Hakuho was already in Miyagino beya a couple of months before his debut in March. I am not sure if that is because the oyakata thought he was too thin, or if that policy was already instituted. If it is a new requirement well then perhaps this is the NSK's method of controlling foreigners and potentially shusshin-claimers. 

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5 minutes ago, pricklypomegranate said:

I do recall that Hakuho was already in Miyagino beya a couple of months before his debut in March. I am not sure if that is because the oyakata thought he was too thin, or if that policy was already instituted. If it is a new requirement well then perhaps this is the NSK's method of controlling foreigners and potentially shusshin-claimers. 

Not quite that far back; we're thinking of more recent arrivals like Hoshoryu. But it does indeed seem like a means of controlling foreigners, or at least ensuring that they are well suited for heya life.

It also occurred to me that it might be a means of "putting" successful foreign athletes in their place, to make it clear to them that despite their success, they are still expected to abide by the strictures of heya life. I vaguely remember that Shishi had some success in amasumo. But then the same logic should also apply to future tsukedashi entrants, and I don't see to date any news that it is being done.

Edited by Seiyashi

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I don't know exactly when it started, but it's been true for the last at least 10 years I'd say that anyone that doesn't already have the ability to work in Japan when they enter the heya sits out their first tournament.  This was true for Ichinojo, who didn't debut in Mz.  The assumption is that it takes a bit of time for them to get the work visa straightened out.  Those with Japanese permanent residence already are able to start immediately.  This is connected with the fact that he's not seen as a foreigner for the one-per-heya rule, as can be seen that he has a Hokkaido shusshin.  It's the shusshin that delineates who is considered a foreigner, so I think anyone with permanent residence before entering sumo gets treated as not-a-foreigner.  The one-per-heya rule I believe is designed to not dilute Japanese culture, so the assumption is that if someone has been in Japan long enough for permanent residence and are free to work in Japan, that they're already sufficiently Japonified.  I assume that most other Mongolians who go to high school in Japan (like Ichinojo) are only on student visas, and haven't been living in Japan all that long, and thus are foreigners even if they've been in Japan a few years more than someone coming into the country for the first time (like Osunaarashi).

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13 hours ago, Seiyashi said:

It also occurred to me that it might be a means of "putting" successful foreign athletes in their place, to make it clear to them that despite their success, they are still expected to abide by the strictures of heya life. I vaguely remember that Shishi had some success in amasumo. But then the same logic should also apply to future tsukedashi entrants, and I don't see to date any news that it is being done.

I would guess being a freshman year member of a university sumo club isn't all that different, so I doubt the collegiate guys need it explained what it means to be an ozumo rookie.
 

2 hours ago, Gurowake said:

I don't know exactly when it started, but it's been true for the last at least 10 years I'd say that anyone that doesn't already have the ability to work in Japan when they enter the heya sits out their first tournament.

That's after the shindeshi kensa, not before, so it's not connected to what Seiyashi was talking about.

Edited by Asashosakari

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15 hours ago, Seiyashi said:

There's also apparently some new(?) requirement that foreign wrestlers have a "break in" period at a heya before they can undergo the shindeshi kensa. New(?) because apparently Shishi underwent it, but we struggle to think of other, more famous, foreign recruits who have done the same. 

Apparently Roga was (one of) the first under that quite new kenshuu period requirement

On 03/02/2019 at 10:47, Akinomaki said:

研修生 kenshuusei you become in Japan e.g. as foreign student before you get to a proper one,  like kenkyusei. ...

I was astonished when with Roga, also in sumo kenshusei appeared, I haven't  seen this new system explained yet.

Edited by Akinomaki

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Guys, I just realised, with Hokuseiho at M15W and Abi at M16E, there likely could be Hokuseiho v. Abi. (Applauding...)

I suppose this is the Hokuseiho-specific thread. So place your bets how he'll perform next. How do you think he'll do? At best, I think it's a 6-1. At worst, could be 3-4. 

P.S. This is Hakuho's 99th basho in Makuuchi, and stay tuned for the rikishi-kai news. 

Edited by pricklypomegranate

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