Kaioshoryu 63 Posted November 14, 2020 5 hours ago, Swami said: The end to a long and distinguished career, here's hoping Kotoshogiku becomes successful in this new stage of his career. Changing of the guard very much under way, the two Yokozuna must surely be amongst the next to retire (along with Shohozan and Ikioi,). But equally somebody, Takakeisho, Asanoyama, Takanosho, needs to make a concerted drive for further promotion. Perhaps the leader of the new guard hasn't put in an appearance yet, who knows? Swami Hokuseiho is the next great one. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kishinoyama 595 Posted November 14, 2020 (edited) 1 hour ago, Kaioshoryu said: Hokuseiho is the next great one. He does look good but I want to see how he does in upper Makushita. He will be facing many veterans when he gets there. EDIT: Sorry for continuing the conversation.... Edited November 14, 2020 by Kishinoyama Added off topic emoji and text.... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
WAKATAKE 2,656 Posted November 15, 2020 (edited) Some stats from Nikkan about Kotoshogiku retiring: https://www.nikkansports.com/battle/sumo/news/202011150000073.html - Had the highest number of bouts among active rikishi at 1496 (far from 10th place though) - Had the highest number of makuuchi bouts among active rikishi at 1332, 6th overall - 92 basho in makuuchi, was 2nd among active wrestlers (after Hakuho) and 7th overall. His 91 consecutive basho in makuuchi tie him for 4th place - At 828 career wins was 2nd highest among active wrestlers (after Hakuho) - 718 makuuchi wins which puts him in 6th place overall - Got 3 kinboshi from Harumafuji, Kisenosato and Hakuho after he fell down from ozeki Edited November 16, 2020 by WAKATAKE 3 3 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kotomiyama 172 Posted November 15, 2020 Not among my favourites, but I reckon I always wanted him to win after he lost his ozeki rank. He kept on fighting and he even managed to get three kinboshi. Respect. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Akinomaki 40,501 Posted November 15, 2020 (edited) Kotoshogiku retired officially as of today, had his intai press conference and turned into Hidenoyama-oyakata. o o o o The NSK usually posts the full video several days/weeks later, for now a message to the fans from the new oyakata Edited November 15, 2020 by Akinomaki 3 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Yubinhaad 11,696 Posted November 15, 2020 Sad to hear the news, but he's been an outstanding servant of ozumo (and a mainstay of Yubinhaad-beya for eighteen years), he's earned his blue jacket and a chair in the hanamichi to rest on. His yusho was a highlight of the decade for me. 2 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jakusotsu 5,969 Posted November 16, 2020 In my lazy mind he will always be the new guy from Sadogatake with the same mischievous smile as my former apprentice. (...at least the latter is stil working with me...) Farewell, Shoki! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Shinobi Steve 146 Posted November 16, 2020 I've only been watching sumo since 2013. No matter what was happening in the world, I could always rely on Kotoshogiku grabbing a belt and bumping an opponent out of the dohyo at least once every other month. I'm really glad he did the stretch one last time. 3 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Zannah 49 Posted November 16, 2020 Had to digest the news for couple days. He was one of the first guys I started to remember & recognize, when I started following sumo. I will greatly miss his "humpty-dumpty- pushing-you-out-of-the-ring" -style of sumo. Wishing all the best success to his new career as oyakata. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
cyclonicleo 19 Posted November 17, 2020 Genuinely saddened by this, but I hope retirement allows him to move on to the next phase in his life. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jabbamaru 166 Posted November 18, 2020 Sayonara Gikusan Without your gaburigaburigaburiyori ozumo will not be the same. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rzombie1988 159 Posted November 18, 2020 (edited) He was a limited guy who really got a lot further than he should have. His Ozeki run was pretty bad with him never really being in the mix to win. I don't think he was ever the best Ozeki at any given time. Even Goeido was arguably better than him and Goeido was never really that impressive either. Edited November 18, 2020 by rzombie1988 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Yamanashi 3,840 Posted November 18, 2020 A remembrance from Kotooshu on his Ameba blog: https://ameblo.jp/kotooshu-naruto/entry-12638177041.html 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Benevolance 2,501 Posted November 18, 2020 17 hours ago, rzombie1988 said: His Ozeki run was pretty bad with him never really being in the mix to win. The yusho was decided on the final day. And he beat Hakuho en route to stay within 1 loss. And, to be fair, nobody who wasn't named Hakuho was ever really in the mix to win during those years. In the year that Kotoshogiku was promoted, Hakuho lost a total of 9 matches out of 90, and two of those losses were to the Geek. Practically god-like*. *For some lesser definitions of godly. Results may vary. Consult your physician if warts develop. 4 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kishinoyama 595 Posted November 19, 2020 19 hours ago, rzombie1988 said: He was a limited guy who really got a lot further than he should have. His Ozeki run was pretty bad with him never really being in the mix to win. I don't think he was ever the best Ozeki at any given time. Even Goeido was arguably better than him and Goeido was never really that impressive either. Actually he went 10-5, 11-4 and 12-3 in his ozeki run. In the last tournament of the ozeki run, he lost to Baruto on the last day or he would have been in a playoff with Hakuho. He had won his match against Hakuho on day 13, so he was definitely in the mix to win that tournament. Honestly, I never really liked his style but he was more than qualified to get promoted to ozeki and one word you never heard mentioned when it came to Kotoshogiku was yaocho. The guy was straight as an arrow when it came to trying to win every time he was on the dohyo. I have confidence that he will instill that same winning attitude on those he is able to train, if given a chance to do so. 4 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Tsuchinoninjin 1,269 Posted November 19, 2020 14 hours ago, Kishinoyama said: Actually he went 10-5, 11-4 and 12-3 in his ozeki run. In the last tournament of the ozeki run, he lost to Baruto on the last day or he would have been in a playoff with Hakuho. He had won his match against Hakuho on day 13, so he was definitely in the mix to win that tournament. Honestly, I never really liked his style but he was more than qualified to get promoted to ozeki and one word you never heard mentioned when it came to Kotoshogiku was yaocho. The guy was straight as an arrow when it came to trying to win every time he was on the dohyo. I have confidence that he will instill that same winning attitude on those he is able to train, if given a chance to do so. The few training videos I've seen with Kotoshogiku, it seems he is really active with the youngsters and does his best to train them. Looking forward to see how he does as a coach/oyakata. Anyway, I'm sure rzombie is debating with himself if Hakuho has really done enough in his career to warrant a sekiwake title or not. 3 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rzombie1988 159 Posted November 20, 2020 (edited) On 18/11/2020 at 20:09, Kishinoyama said: Actually he went 10-5, 11-4 and 12-3 in his ozeki run. In the last tournament of the ozeki run, he lost to Baruto on the last day or he would have been in a playoff with Hakuho. He had won his match against Hakuho on day 13, so he was definitely in the mix to win that tournament. He had one Jun-Yusho and one Yusho in 32 tournaments as an Ozeki. Add another one on the list if you want. Does that really make him that much more impressive? He only reached 33 wins in 3 tournaments once as an Ozeki. I don't find that very impressive either. If we looked through Ozekis who never made Yokozuna - He was not better than Kaio, Chiyotaikai, Terunofuji, Takanonami, Kirishima, Hokutenyu, Konishiki or Tochiazuma. He was better than Kotooshu, Dejima, Miyabiyama, Asashio and Musoyama, who no one would say were great Ozeki. Baruto was better, but if you want to discount him due to his record, fine. Kotomitsuki was more competitive, just not as an Ozeki, strangely. Goeido, who I also wasn't impressed with had 2 Jun-Yusho's and one Yusho in 33 tournaments as an Ozeki. Edited November 20, 2020 by rzombie1988 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Seiyashi 4,087 Posted November 20, 2020 19 minutes ago, rzombie1988 said: Goeido, who I also wasn't impressed with had 2 Jun-Yusho's and one Yusho in 33 tournaments as an Ozeki It takes a lot to impress you... 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kishinoyama 595 Posted November 20, 2020 13 minutes ago, rzombie1988 said: ........... He was an Ozeki for five and a half years. Some people would think that was pretty impressive by itself but my comment was in regards to your comment about Kotoshogiku not being in the mix to win. You seem to have missed that point so I will say it again. In the last tournament of his Ozeki run he was 12-3. He lost on the last day to Baruto or he would have been in a playoff with Hakuho. That is what I call being in the mix to win. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rzombie1988 159 Posted November 20, 2020 3 minutes ago, Seiyashi said: It takes a lot to impress you... What is Ozeki to you? To me, Ozeki are the people almost good enough to be Yokozuna, but just can't get there. Whether it be due to injuries, inconsistency or just other people being better. I think Ozeki should be able to hit 10 wins 4-5 times out of 6 tournaments, especially since they get two chances to maintain rank if they go makekoshi. I think they should be able to win a title once in a while and should atleast have a bunch of Jun-Yusho's to their name. I don't think Ozeki's should be like Kaio, who late in his career barely hit 8 wins for years. That doesn't really bring honor or respect to the rank. It makes it almost look like cheating. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rzombie1988 159 Posted November 20, 2020 (edited) 42 minutes ago, Kishinoyama said: He was an Ozeki for five and a half years. Some people would think that was pretty impressive by itself but my comment was in regards to your comment about Kotoshogiku not being in the mix to win. You seem to have missed that point so I will say it again. In the last tournament of his Ozeki run he was 12-3. He lost on the last day to Baruto or he would have been in a playoff with Hakuho. That is what I call being in the mix to win. Longevity is what it is. You can't really train for someone falling on you at a weird angle or landing hard on a fall. Accidents just happen. Even in like basketball or football or other sports, I've never valued longevity awards as much as others due to the lack of control. As I said, if I give you another one, does that really make him that much of a better Ozeki? I don't think so. He's still going to be a middle to lower end of the pack Ozeki. Edited November 20, 2020 by rzombie1988 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rzombie1988 159 Posted November 20, 2020 (edited) On 18/11/2020 at 18:17, Benevolance said: The yusho was decided on the final day. And he beat Hakuho en route to stay within 1 loss. And, to be fair, nobody who wasn't named Hakuho was ever really in the mix to win during those years. In the year that Kotoshogiku was promoted, Hakuho lost a total of 9 matches out of 90, and two of those losses were to the Geek. Practically god-like*. Kisenosato had 2 titles and 12 JY's. Kakuryu grabbed 6 titles and 8 JY's. Harumafuji had 9 titles and 8 JY's. Terunofuji already has 2 titles and 4 JY's. These guys figured it out when Kotoshogiku couldn't. Just as someone had to win the tournament, someone had to come in second place too and as we proved above, Koto could only manage that once. And I have a feeling that if we went through to see how many times he would have finished third, the numbers wouldn't be much better. He was just not a great Ozeki. Edited November 20, 2020 by rzombie1988 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kishinoyama 595 Posted November 21, 2020 3 hours ago, rzombie1988 said: .... Once again, you make a statement and I counter that statement with a fact. Now you have done it again. Now I am done. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Yamanashi 3,840 Posted November 21, 2020 I don't feel the bad vibes about Giku or any other Ozeki with more than ~15 basho at that level. Kotoshogiku lasted 32 basho as Ozeki, Goeido 33, Kotooshu 47. Two yusho in a row will make you Yokozuna, but two MK in a row will make you Sanyaku; it seems the latter is much more likely, especially in the Asashoryu/Hakuho eras. Kisenosato was an Ozeki for 31 basho before he became Yokozuna; he beat three Yokozuna and two Ozeki, and got a Jun-Yusho for his efforts. I don't mind that these guys don't regularly beat Yokozuna -- if they did, they'd be Yokozuna too! Oh, and the under 15 basho Ozeki were almost all victims of injuries; if they'd only made Yokozuna, maybe they'd still be holding their rank after taking five or six basho off. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites