Non-K-November basho 2020 Discussion (spoiler space)

[Seiyashi 4,068]

13 minutes ago, Tochinofuji said:

I have seen a couple in my time, and only started watching in 2008/2009.  I can recall Harumafuji/Ama (as he probably was) having one, and from ST daily logs it appears there was a Takayasu - Shohozan one in Natsu 2014, and Tokitenku - Hakuho one in Haru 2013.

Thanks for the detailed notes - I've dug up the bouts in case anyone else is interested.

Takayasu - Shohozan: this was a real barn burner; I can see what Kintamayama was talking about.

Tokitenku - Hakuho: Bit more sedate.

 

[Highway 46]

Would they not save Terunofuji - Takakeisho for the final day? Definitely feels like that would be the basho decider right now, they are towering above all others in performance. Though then again with so many injuries you fear are we even going to see this clash.

 

[ryafuji 806]

A komusubi pretty much has to face all the sanyaku in the first week. That's why it's such a hard rank.

[WAKATAKE 2,614]

If they go the traditional format the latest Terunofuji would see K’sho is day 14. Remember that Takanosho is K’sho stablemate 

[Seiyashi 4,068]

11 minutes ago, ryafuji said:

A komusubi pretty much has to face all the sanyaku in the first week. That's why it's such a hard rank.

That seems to be the conventional wisdom, but looking at July's torikumi, it seems to have been the M1s who did the sanyaku tour in the first week. That logic continues to hold up this basho with M1E Kiribayama done with the entire sanyaku while the two komusubi have had half their matches with the sanyaku and half with the joi. I don't know if it's a sea change in the way the schedulers draw up the torikumi, or the result of a very depleted sanyaku this basho, but it seems the net effect is to add +1 to +2 to everyone's ranks for the purposes of comparing to older torikumi.

3 minutes ago, WAKATAKE said:

If they go the traditional format the latest Terunofuji would see K’sho is day 14. Remember that Takanosho is K’sho stablemate 

Terunofuji and Mitakeumi are the highest-ranked opponents that Takakeisho can face, since Takakeisho has already fought Takayasu and cannot fight Takanosho. It means Takakeisho will be reaping heads through the joi from Okinoumi tomorrow down to Tamawashi on day 13. If both Ts maintain their lead and Mitakeumi fizzles again, it's not inconceivable that they will give Takakeisho Mitakeumi on day 14, and save the musubi no ichiban on senshuraku for the title decider. But that's also possible if they drop bouts and Mitakeumi stays one behind, because they seem to like having eliminators on Day 14 with bouts on senshuraku potentially resulting in playoff forces.

Edited November 13, 2020 by Seiyashi

[Amamaniac 2,078]

6 hours ago, Eikokurai said:

6 hours ago, Amamaniac said:

does a last-ditch squat to fend off the oncoming attack

Which is about the last thing he should be doing given the injury he’s recovering from was in his knees and occurred in pretty much the same way (if memory serves).

What I love about this Forum is that experienced sumo watchers like yourself provide insights and memories that help spark further inquiry.  And the internet at large provides useful reference material.

How Ura injured his knee was the point of departure.  Next step: check the database to see exactly when Ura went kyujo and hopped on the down elevator.  Next step: check YouTube for videos from the September 2017 tournament.

To my surprise and delight, many things came full circle in that line of inquiry.  (1) Ura got injured on day 2 of the last tournament that Yokozuna Harumafuji won a yusho.  Probably not that meaningful for most, but as a self-professed maniac, it was significant for me.  (2) Guess who was a shin-nyumaku rookie in that tournament: Asanoyama!  OMG.  And (3) guess who was fighting Ura when he got injured?  None other than ... Takakeisho!  Double OMG.

In short, thanks for the nudge to look into that, Eikokurai. 

If Forum members want to view the bout in question, start watching at the 7:54 mark.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K8o5BrNg-SA

P.S., Your memory did indeed serve.

[Amamaniac 2,078]

2 hours ago, Seiyashi said:

Tokitenku - Hakuho: Bit more sedate.

It seems to me that the gyoji wanted to stop the bout, just as Kimura Motoki did today.

But Hakuho – the boss that he was – took control of the situation.  Tokitenku did appear to be egging the Yokozuna on, ever so slightly.  Hakuho wasn't having it.  Tokitenku made two other fatal mistakes in that one: he had both fists down at the shikirisen, and he brought his chest up to take Hakuho's charge.  Mutual consent fulfilled, I suppose.

[Seiyashi 4,068]

I guess jikanmae are a lot rarer nowadays with the unspoken requirement that fists need to be down at the shikirisen, since it's a lot harder to be construed as ready. I can see them just happening all over the place with the old-style upright tachiai where they just basically rammed into each other from a standing position.

Edited November 13, 2020 by Seiyashi

[Kintamayama 44,251]

2 hours ago, Seiyashi said:

Takayasu - Shohozan: this was a real barn burner; I can see what Kintamayama was talking about.

 

The funny thing about that one is that the commentators were totally unaware of it happening. The guy even says "it's time" when it obviously isn't , looking at the gyoji. Nowhere has the word "jikanmae " been used.

[Amamaniac 2,078]

On Abema TV, a viewer texted in with the line: "oshiri furifuri taimu" お尻ふりふりタイム just prior to the Ryuden tachi-ai.  Pardon my French, but one might translate that as "bum bouncing time".  Even though the Forum tends to avoid posting in Japanese, this phrase may just catch on.  And it works in both Japanese and English. 

[Kintamayama 44,251]

More Day 6 rikishi talk:

Shimanoumi, first loss: "No big deal. All I can do is go about it seriously every day."

Houshouryuu, winning his first three and now losing his next three: "I was able to get my first step in and grab his mawashi, but my initial charge was not good enough. I will refresh my state of mind and start again!"

Tochinoshin, superhuman uwatenage: "I did all I could not to lose my overhand left grip. If I can get that outside grip I can do sumo.."

Takarafuji, winning and going 5-1, Tobizaru missing the leg kick: " My opponent attempted a kick and lost his balance, and it felt that he just collapsed as a result.."

Said Tobizaru: "It felt like my foot accidentally went out on its own.. My body has gradually begun to move well , so I hope to attack relentlessly from here on."

Takayasu , stops his losing streak at three: "I'd like to seriously concentrate and do my own sumo all the way. I will gambarize so I can win on day 7 with good content sumo."

Wakatakakage, only one win so far, and even that was a fusensho freebie: "I wish to concentrate daily on each bout without thinking about that and when it's all over, I'll start thinking about that .."

 

Edited November 13, 2020 by Kintamayama

[Sakura 1,462]

1 hour ago, Seiyashi said:

or the result of a very depleted sanyaku this basho,

It's because of this. Takakeisho himself only has to face Mitakeumi and Terunofuji in the Sanyaku. They try to have equal amounts of Sanyaku matchups spread about the tournament, with any imbalances pushed toward the end. Of course, withdrawals change the calculations and adjustments are made throughout the basho. 

Terunofuji's light schedule is caused by the fact that he's currently the fourth highest ranked active rikishi on the banzuke.

[Kintamayama 44,251]

I did remember correctly..

http://www.sumoforum.net/forums/topic/14130-kitazakura-jikan-mae/

[Onibushou 61]

I seem to recall Tokitenku being asked post-match about that jikan mae, and stating something along the lines of 'I didn't feel I was any more likely to lose an early start than a normal one.' Just getting the loss out of the way, I suppose. If nothing else its a neat bit of trivia for him.

[dada78641 884]

1 hour ago, Amamaniac said:

On Abema TV, a viewer texted in with the line: "oshiri furifuri taimu" お尻ふりふりタイム just prior to the Ryuden tachi-ai.  Pardon my French, but one might translate that as "bum bouncing time".  Even though the Forum tends to avoid posting in Japanese, this phrase may just catch on.  And it works in both Japanese and English. 

More like bum shaking time (booty shaking time?) but yes, that's close enough

[yohcun 393]

1 hour ago, Amamaniac said:

On Abema TV, a viewer texted in with the line: "oshiri furifuri taimu" お尻ふりふりタイム just prior to the Ryuden tachi-ai.  Pardon my French, but one might translate that as "bum bouncing time".  Even though the Forum tends to avoid posting in Japanese, this phrase may just catch on.  And it works in both Japanese and English. 

That's a lot less french than the nickname I'd mentally given it. The cat puke.

[Eikokurai 3,433]

Giku-san has called it a day. :(

A real legend of modern sumo.

[Kurikara 28]

39 minutes ago, Eikokurai said:

Giku-san has called it a day. :(

A real legend of modern sumo.

Sad to see him go. Still miss those back stretches.

[Kaninoyama 1,660]

10 hours ago, Joaoiyama said:

Did no one see Akua's matta?

According to the NHK announcer, he thought that time was up, and even thought he remembered taking the towel beforehand. 

[Kaninoyama 1,660]

55 minutes ago, Eikokurai said:

Giku-san has called it a day. :(

A real legend of modern sumo.

Sad, but not unexpected, and probably the right thing for him to do at this juncture of his career. 

[robnplunder 974]

I wish 'giku well.   He was a Japanese hero when he won the yusho.  

[pricklypomegranate 730]

Wow! I just realised that the website was back up and missed some major news!

[About Kotoshogiku] It was not unexpected, but I am still sad to see Kotoshogiku go. With this November basho, it's my 1 year anniversary following sumo. Yet, I still understand the gravity of Kotoshogiku's achievements. He only ever won 1 yusho, but that yusho meant the world to Japanese rikishi. He will be sorely missed and I am sure he will make a good oyakata in the future. All hail Hidenoyama oyakata!!!

[Ura!] I think he will stay in Juryo, but his Makuuchi return might be some time yet. His sumo doesn't look Terunofuji return kind of convincing... 

[Enho?] Looks like my prediction that Enho will sink to Juryo is coming through, but I share Murray's opinion that if he gets 5 wins he still can stay afloat in Makuuchi. Did anybody read Mainoumi's perspective on the issue? I don't agree with Mainoumi sometimes, but it was very nice to see Enho's hero show solidarity and empathy for his current slump. Indeed, I share his opinion that Enho has no appropriate training partners - Hakuho is too strong, and Ishiura is not representative of what he will face. I hope that Hakuho finds some average sized deshi - he really needs to diversify. More than getting back to at least his 98kg weight, Enho needs to regain his confidence and his sumo sense. It would be so sad to see him drop off. Please make it happen, Master White. 

[Ozekis?] I hate this but I did call Asanoyama's kyujo and fully expected Shodai to go too after seeing that match against Daieisho. It's completely devastating - Takasago's last basho and Shodai's shin-Ozeki debut. I still think that either Terunofuji and Takakeisho will win this. I am always happy to see someone put a dent with the YDC, but also quite dismayed to see that it had to come at the Ozekis' expense. 

[Jan 2021] ...is probably going to be highest stakes basho I am probably going to see in awhile. Yokozunas fighting for their career. Terunofuji fighting for Ozeki return (if he does well this basho) or Takakeisho on Yokozuna run. We will see... 

[Other news] Naya is looking very strong and will definitely be a sekitori next Jan unless there is divine intervention.  Though they are still many contenders, Shishi and Hokuseiho might be on a collision course once again - I hope that the latter can beat Jokoryu's record, though it's a long shot still. Speaking of Jokoryu, he's looking very strong in Juryo and I hope he clinches a comeback Juryo yusho. 

Edited November 14, 2020 by pricklypomegranate

[WAKATAKE 2,614]

14 minutes ago, pricklypomegranate said:

[About Kotoshogiku] It was not unexpected, but I am still sad to see Kotoshogiku go. With this November basho, it's my 1 year anniversary following sumo. Yet, I still understand the gravity of Kotoshogiku's achievements. He only ever won 1 yusho, but that yusho meant the world to Japanese rikishi. He will be sorely missed and I am sure he will make a good oyakata in the future. All hail Hidenoyama oyakata!!!

Looking at the current kabu list of the NSK I would not be surprised if Kotoshogiku is picked as the next Sadogatake. His career achievements would definitely give him the advantage.

[Asojima 2,870]

31 minutes ago, WAKATAKE said:

Looking at the current kabu list of the NSK I would not be surprised if Kotoshogiku is picked as the next Sadogatake. His career achievements would definitely give him the advantage.

The current Sadagotake still has about 13 years to go before retirement.  Kotoshogiku might eventually acquire the kabu, but if he wants to be a shisho, he will have to start elsewhere.  In 13 years, there may well be another Koto.....  in line for the kabu.

Edited November 14, 2020 by Asojima

[just_some_guy 248]

3 hours ago, dada78641 said:

More like bum shaking time (booty shaking time?) but yes, that's close enough

Speaking of, has Ryuden given anything quote-wise as to why he's been twerking on the dohyo? It seems to be bringing him luck. Perhaps it causes his opponents' minds to wander...