Akinomaki

Non-K-November basho 2020 Discussion (spoiler space)

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31 minutes ago, Eikokurai said:

Indeed. I assume a certain level of sumo knowledge among members of the forum.

reading your initial comment, i was in doubt

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1 minute ago, Gernobono said:

reading your initial comment, i was in doubt

Maybe if he had had less than 100 posts...

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2 minutes ago, Gernobono said:

reading your initial comment, i was in doubt

Sure. I can see how you’d read it that way. I’m a relatively old sumo hand though (Haru 2007 was my first basho proper, though I watched highlights on C4 in the UK in the 90s) and I’ve been cluttering up the sumo forum with my BS musings since 2018. I’ve been a fan of Chiyonokuni for a long time (inasmuch as I’m a “fan” of rikishi). :-)

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17 hours ago, Seiyashi said:

Jokes aside, is there something about being last-ranked in makuuchi - never mind the particular number - that seems to inspire its occupier more than his surroundings?

Do or die, I suppose. They have zero zabuton to fall back on at that rank so only kachikoshi will save them from a return to juryo. Also possibly that they’re fighting the weakest guys in Makuuchi so if they themselves are better than that, they can take advantage to put up big numbers that will not only spare them demotion but catapult them far enough up the banzuke that next basho they don’t need to look over their shoulder at all.

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Ura got a swell of attention yesterday with his izori victory over Kyokushuho, and deservedly so.  Like most fans, I am delighted to see him back up in the sekitori ranks, and am hoping to see his return to the Top Division.  But...

At J13e, Ura is not devouring his opponents as handily as probably even he had hoped.  In fact, he is 3-3 after six days.  At least two of his three losses (maybe even all three) were reminiscent of the majority of Enho's losses: he gets cornered on the bales (yeah, I know, the ring has no corners), does a last-ditch squat to fend off the oncoming attack, and then gets shoved down on his posterior.  It's like seeing two very different wrestlers suffer from the same tactical error.  No other current sekitori seem to be getting caught in the same position with equal regularity.

Ura may be "back up" in the sekitori ranks, but he has to learn not to "back up".  2¢ submitted.

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Takakeisho is looking great and so many people said his 14kg weight increase to 183kg would hinder him greatly, 12-3 in September and this 6-0 start in November prove them wrong. 

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12 minutes ago, Amamaniac said:

does a last-ditch squat to fend off the oncoming attack

Which is about the last thing he should be doing given the injury he’s recovering from was in his knees and occurred in pretty much the same way (if memory serves).

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All the key players and key train wrecks have been duly accounted for, so perhaps it is time to look at some of the less remarkable wrestlers in the Top Division.

Today, the most remarkable bout involving less remarkable wrestlers was that between Akua and Sadanoumi.  Both men were 1-4, i.e., less than remarkable.  Akua is the only Top Division rookie this tournament, and seems to be struggling against the Makuuchi Men.  Sadanoumi, however, is underperforming, and could possibly be hiding an injury.

What made their bout so remarkable was that Akua got so caught up in nerves and focusing on winning that he charged at the second shikiri instead of waiting to wipe down with his facecloth.  Rookie mistake, right?  Welllllll...

I'm sure someone will correct me, but this rarely ever happens in the Top Division.  In fact, both men were confused as to what they should do next.  They treated the situation like a false start and went back to try again.  Luckily Kimura Motoki, the gyoji, had his wits about him, and he quickly told both wrestlers to head straight to their final corners.

I'm just miffed that the bout got paused.  The unwritten rule is that wrestlers don't technically need to go through all the motions.  If there is mutual consent, then wrestlers can "get into it" as early as they want.  For years now, I've been waiting to see something like that happen.  Today, Akua came close to fulfilling my dream.  Too bad Sadanoumi wasn't on the same page.  Where's the mutual consent when you want it? (Hitthewall...)

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Quote

(yeah, I know, the ring has no corners)

Factually inexact, because of the toku-dawaras :-P .

Edited by Bombur
Smiley
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Rikishi talk day 6:

Terunofuji, 6-0, beating compatriot Kiribayama who he faced for the first time: "He's not someone who comes rushing out at you, so I planned on remaining calm, and grabbing his mawashi. I am not aware of anything special (the crowd loved his tsuri-yori). I have to accumulate those wins daily so I have to do the best I can on a daily basis. "

Takakeishou, six wins, beating Kagayaki: "I was thinking whatever happens, I have to concentrate. I would like to continue to concentrate tomorrow. I am thinking only about today  (and not about the kyujo rikishi). It's important to think about how I will be able to do my own sumo."

Chiyonokuni, 6 straight wins, beating Enhou today: "I wanted to take my time to see what he may be up to. I'm not thinking about being the only undefeated rank and filer. I want to aim upwards but all I can do is face the bouts a day at a time."

Mitakeumi, beating Okinoumi: "I did my best to not let him grab my mawashi I was able to do sumo by just bending my knees. I'm in good shape and just hope to pile up those wins. I want my presence to be felt."

Shimanoumi, first loss of the basho, to Ichinojou: "I should have hit harder at the tachiai. I need to do good sumo before I get grabbed.."

Ounoshou, beating Daieishou and getting his first "real" win this basho: "I was able to put a lot of pressure on him. The quality was good. This will lead to tomorrow."

Takarafuji, fifth win, beating Tobizaru in their first ever meeting: "I've never faced him, even in training, so I kept my distance from him. I was able to take the incentive and that was good."

Edited by Kintamayama
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21 minutes ago, Amamaniac said:

All the key players and key train wrecks have been duly accounted for, so perhaps it is time to look at some of the less remarkable wrestlers in the Top Division.

Today, the most remarkable bout involving less remarkable wrestlers was that between Akua and Sadanoumi.  Both men were 1-4, i.e., less than remarkable.  Akua is the only Top Division rookie this tournament, and seems to be struggling against the Makuuchi Men.  Sadanoumi, however, is underperforming, and could possibly be hiding an injury.

What made their bout so remarkable was that Akua got so caught up in nerves and focusing on winning that he charged at the second shikiri instead of waiting to wipe down with his facecloth.  Rookie mistake, right?  Welllllll...

I'm sure someone will correct me, but this rarely ever happens in the Top Division.  In fact, both men were confused as to what they should do next.  They treated the situation like a false start and went back to try again.  Luckily Kimura Motoki, the gyoji, had his wits about him, and he quickly told both wrestlers to head straight to their final corners.

I'm just miffed that the bout got paused.  The unwritten rule is that wrestlers don't technically need to go through all the motions.  If there is mutual consent, then wrestlers can "get into it" as early as they want.  For years now, I've been waiting to see something like that happen.  Today, Akua came close to fulfilling my dream.  Too bad Sadanoumi wasn't on the same page.  Where's the mutual consent when you want it? (Hitthewall...)

Sadanoumi was hardly ready though, his fists were still hovering over the shikiri. And after all that, Akua managed to matta again because his fists weren't down, and got a second talking to from the gyoji.

I read that Kitazakura used to do something similar by encouraging his opponent to go even before the timing was up. On the other side though, I don't see why you'd ever agree and do so; it's your psychological advantage if you delay and do it on your timing, not theirs, and the more riled up your opponent gets waiting for you, the better.

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31 minutes ago, Kintamayama said:

Mitakeumi, beating Okinoumi: "I did my best to not let him grab my mawashi I was able to do sumo by just bending my knees. I'm in good shape and just hope to pile up those wins. I want my presence to be felt."

Sounds almost like a guy who has already given up on his yusho chances...

He may, however, get his wish if he upsets either or both of the higher-ranked frontrunners.  He has yet to face Terunofuji or Takakeisho.  But it will take Mitakeumi more than just bending his knees to beat the likes of those two aforementioned men.

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Just now, Amamaniac said:

Sounds almost like a guy who has already given up on his yusho chances...

He may, however, get his wish if he upsets either or both of the higher-ranked frontrunners.  He has yet to face Terunofuji or Takakeisho.  But it will take Mitakeumi more than just bending his knees to beat the likes of those two aforementioned men.

He's got Hokutofuji tomorrow who is also on 4-2, and looking in decent shape. If he drops that one as well, his yusho chances are in the bin especially if both Terunofuji and Takakeisho continue winning. The way both Ts are fighting this tournament, I don't think Mitakeumi's going to beat them short of injury.

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46 minutes ago, Bombur said:

Well, factually inexact, because of the toku-dawaras :P .

I tried to avoid getting corrected for saying "gets cornered", and forgot to take into account that someone would point out the presence of the special bales!

When will I ever learn?  Sigh...

Spoiler

More sighs and some sobbing.

 

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50 minutes ago, Seiyashi said:

I read that Kitazakura used to do something similar by encouraging his opponent to go even before the timing was up. On the other side though, I don't see why you'd ever agree and do so; it's your psychological advantage if you delay and do it on your timing, not theirs, and the more riled up your opponent gets waiting for you, the better.

I just listened to Murray Johnson's commentary on NHK, and he indicated that egging opponents to go early was a little more common in the 1990s, and Takatoriki had a rep for that.  Still, I'd like to see a case of "jikanmae" just to witness a very rare occurrence and to confirm for myself that sumo conventions don't have to be adhered to.

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With 4 losses in a row, 1-5 Kotoshogiku for these 4 days in a row now also refuses to give interviews o  - at the PC terminal, where rikishi should stop after the bout to answer questions by the media.

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4 minutes ago, Akinomaki said:

With 4 losses in a row, 1-5 Kotoshogiku for these 4 days in a row now also refuses to give interviews o  - at the PC terminal, where rikishi should stop after the bout to answer questions by the media.

That's fairly bad form. Ajigawa was on the ozekis' case last basho when they pulled the same stunt. Not sure whether he'll give a grizzled, lower-ranked veteran a pass for that.

Edited by Seiyashi

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That was good sumo from Mitakeumi today. It's nice to see him rounding out his game. He really is so talented, but...well, Mitakeumi's gonna Mitakeumi. 

Terunofuji is just such a monster. Wow. I mean, he looks like an ozeki, for sure. But I don't think anything short of a miracle will let his knees hold together long enough to reclaim the rank. Even so, I'll be cheering for him to do it. What a triumphant story that would be.

Chiyonokuni looking sharp, despite having so much tape on his shoulder that it's bullet-proof. He is back with a vengeance and I love it.

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1 hour ago, Amamaniac said:

I just listened to Murray Johnson's commentary on NHK, and he indicated that egging opponents to go early was a little more common in the 1990s, and Takatoriki had a rep for that.  Still, I'd like to see a case of "jikanmae" just to witness a very rare occurrence and to confirm for myself that sumo conventions don't have to be adhered to.

During the 70's, makuuchi jikanmae would occur a few times in almost ever basho.  In the early 2000's, Kitazakura was well known for trying to egg his opponents into a jikanmae.  He was occasionally successful.

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A real jikanmae is as exciting as an ipponzeoi. It doesn't give anyone any advantage-you just look at your opponent, he gets you, and both of you go for it before time. It pumps up the adrenalin and makes for more excitement. I've seen it- it is fun. It's exciting. It's unconventional. It's a welcome change. 

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2 hours ago, Amamaniac said:

Sounds almost like a guy who has already given up on his yusho chances...

He may, however, get his wish if he upsets either or both of the higher-ranked frontrunners.  He has yet to face Terunofuji or Takakeisho.  But it will take Mitakeumi more than just bending his knees to beat the likes of those two aforementioned men.

"I want my presence to be felt" is a souped up "I shall gambarize". It means "I want to do good so people will be talking about me. " As for the yusho chances, on the contrary, it means that from his POV he is in the very eye of the yusho race, and will now show everyone where the fish pisses from (Hebrew idiom, meaning "who's the boss"). 

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5 minutes ago, Kintamayama said:

A real jikanmae is as exciting as an ipponzeoi. It doesn't give anyone any advantage-you just look at your opponent, he gets you, and both of you go for it before time. It pumps up the adrenalin and makes for more excitement. I've seen it- it is fun. It's exciting. It's unconventional. It's a welcome change. 

When was the last jikanmae in makuuchi?

 

1 minute ago, Kintamayama said:

As for the yusho chances, on the contrary, it means that from his POV he is in the very eye of the yusho race, and will now show everyone where the fish pisses from (Hebrew idiom, meaning "who's the boss"). 

Odd to be in the eye of the race when already two losses off the pace.

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5 minutes ago, Seiyashi said:

When was the last jikanmae in makuuchi?

 

Odd to be in the eye of the race when already two losses off the pace.

Last Jikanmae I remember was Kitazakura  maybe ten years ago. As for eye of the race, I'm pretty sure Mitakeumi thinks he is and two paces back on day 6 is nothing. He still has to face both leaders, they have to face each other, etc. Maybe it's not realistic, but I feel he  truly thinks he has a chance, otherwise why want "his presence to be felt"? Going 10-5 won't do that. Come from behind yusho? Would. No? Presence will definitely be felt, presents will be felt too.

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1 hour ago, Seiyashi said:

When was the last jikanmae in makuuchi?

 

Odd to be in the eye of the race when already two losses off the pace.

I have seen a couple in my time, and only started watching in 2008/2009.  I can recall Harumafuji/Ama (as he probably was) having one, and from ST daily logs it appears there was a Takayasu - Shohozan one in Natsu 2014, and Tokitenku - Hakuho one in Haru 2013.

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