Akinomaki

Non-K-November basho 2020 Discussion (spoiler space)

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OMG, the site is back!  Two days of tournament action to catch up on!  Two Ozeki gone, leaving "chibi tank" Takakeisho to mop up.  But will he?  So far, so good.  But it definitely looks like Terunofuji will have something to say about that.  He went into beast mode today, lifting Hokutofuji like a bag of potatoes (rice, if you prefer) with one hand!  His left outside grip is stronger than anyone I've seen.

But I want to address the troubling side of this tournament (other than all the big names going kyujo).  Enho is struggling, and struggling hard.  As Ross Mihara aptly put it, he's "a little man in a big slump."  Despite being a devoted Enho fan, I am on the verge of accepting that the competition has figured out exactly how to deal with him.  They've rendered his tactics completely ineffective.

This is the first time he has started a tournament with five (!) straight losses.  And last tournament was nothing to brag about, with four straight opening losses.  He is in a dark place right now.  The fact that opponents are defeating him with little trouble must be playing havoc on his mental toughness.  Losing confidence is just one recipe for failure.

I suspect that Hakuho will want to fight in the next tournament (Jan 2021), and he'd probably prefer to have both Enho and Ishiura in the Top Division so that they can serve on his dohyoiri ring entering team.  Ishiura is fighting well enough that he may just make it back up to the Top Division in January.  Enho, on the other hand, looks as though he is at risk of dropping down into the Juryo Division.  What do forum members think is the minimum number of wins Enho needs to stay in the Makuuchi Top Division?

The situation looks pretty grim.  (That took a lot for me to say. :'-()

Edited by Amamaniac
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Day 3 rikishi talk:

Terunofuji 3-0: "I was able to go about it calmly. I'm not thinking of the yusho."

Takakeishou, also 3-0, the first time he had a perfect three win start since he became Ozeki: "Whatever position I find myself in, I have to believe in what I'm doing.. It's not good that I found myself in a belt situation.. You can't always do the sumo you plan. It's not that easy. Still, i was able to  use all my power. Asanoyama has gone kyujo, but all I can do is give it my all. It has nothing to do with me. Yusho? I have to do what I plan, and if I don't, it means I am weak. I want to do sumo I won't regret!"
 
Shoudai winning again, but again not convincingly, and seems to have injured his ankle: "That was close.. I really do want to win by attacking, but..I pushed him to the edge but needed that extra step or two that I wasn't able to take and I just stopped. I want to be able to attack all the way. I did fall awkwardly at the end. for now, I can walk as usual so I'm OK. I feel I will need to check out my condition tomorrow."
 
Ura, second loss in Juryo: "I couldn't do any sumo at all. I was totally overmatched. All i can do is give it my all. I'd like to gambarize, hoping that the results will follow.."
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Day 4 rikishi talk:

Juryo Ura, winning today and is now 2-2: "That was good. I've been getting blown away at the tachiai lately and that has hurt my confidence. I was able to do my pushing and that brought my confidence back. It's still day 4 though so I can't say much. Stamina-wise it's a bit difficult (he hasn't gone 15 days for a long time) but I'm able to keep up my rhythm so I'm able to maintain my condition quite easily."

 
Terunofuji, 4-0: "I'm just piling up those wins one by one.."
 
Hakkaku rijicho on Shoudai seemingly being injured and  grimacing like an old lady: "He has become an Ozeki so he has to go with his feelings. Whatever happens, injury or whatever, if you're out there, don't make those pathetic faces. Tomorrow? He should do his own tachiai and not lose mentally!"
 
Chiyonokuni, returning to Makuuchi and starting with a 4-0 record: "He got close up and that wasn't good, but at least i was able to move quickly after that.  I'm still slow. My sumo is slow.. I'm just thinking about the bout before me. A day, one bout. I am not conscious of my winning streak."
 
Takakeishou is 4-0, beating Ounoshou today in a well fought match: "I didn't have a specific plan, I just went with the flow. I'm just concentrated and doing my best. Shoudai injured? It has nothing to do with me. I want to do spirited sumo. I'm not thinking of my opponent's condition. I just want to do sumo I won't regret. Today is behind us, so I'll go all out and gambarize tomorrow as well!"
 
 Daieishou, beating Shoudai today: "I thought thinking about his injury would be discourteous to him, so i banished the thought from my mind. Only he knows how painful it is for him. If I do my own sumo, the results will follow."
 
Takanoshou, beating Wakatakakage who made a henka attempt and evening his record at 2-2: "I'm feeling comfortable. I will gambarize tomorrow as if it's day 1!"
 
Kiribayama, beating Mitakeumi: "I'm trying to do my own sumo before my opponent does his..'
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39 minutes ago, Amamaniac said:

What do forum members think is the minimum number of wins Enho needs to stay in the Makuuchi Top Division?

6 should almost guarantee it bar really bad banzuke luck. Only a few 6-win rikishi at M11 have gone down to juryo with the most recent in 1988: http://sumodb.sumogames.de/Query.aspx?show_form=0&form1_rank=m11&form2_rank=j&offset=50.

That said, I don't see him getting 6 in this state, I'm sorry.

Did the forum have to take the souls of Asanoyama and Shodai to come back from kyujo itself? Tipping Takakeisho to either win it or take it to a playoff. His sumo has been damned solid this basho, and for all his lack of a yotsu component to his sumo, he's surprisingly competent when caught on the belt. (sukuinage v Mitakeumi last year, tsukiotoshi against Kiribayama on day 3).

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4 minutes ago, Seiyashi said:

6 should almost guarantee it bar really bad banzuke luck. Only a few 6-win rikishi at M11 have gone down to juryo with the most recent in 1988: http://sumodb.sumogames.de/Query.aspx?show_form=0&form1_rank=m11&form2_rank=j&offset=50.

That said, I don't see him getting 6 in this state, I'm sorry.

If that's the case, perhaps it's not too early to ask who Hakuho will call upon next tournament to fill Enho's role as either dew sweeper or sword carrier...  I'd put some spare change in my pocket on Terutsuyoshi getting the nod.

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1 minute ago, Amamaniac said:
9 minutes ago, Seiyashi said:

6 should almost guarantee it bar really bad banzuke luck. Only a few 6-win rikishi at M11 have gone down to juryo with the most recent in 1988: http://sumodb.sumogames.de/Query.aspx?show_form=0&form1_rank=m11&form2_rank=j&offset=50.

That said, I don't see him getting 6 in this state, I'm sorry.

If that's the case, perhaps it's not too early to ask who Hakuho will call upon next tournament to fill Enho's role as either dew sweeper or sword carrier...  I'd put some spare change in my pocket on Terutsuyoshi getting the nod.

Probably the likely candidate, yes. He filled in for Ishiura earlier this year after that little incident of a bust-up after practice too. The problem is if Ishiura doesn't come back from Juryo - then Kaisei may have to be activated as well, provided he himself doesn't fall to Juryo either.

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Rikishi talk day 5:

Ura from Juryo, on his incredible izori today: "It just happened- I was surprised myself.. I'm glad the technique appeared.." he said. He has a new keshomawashi that says "technique" on it..

Takakeishou, five straight wins. "I planned on concentrating and doing my own sumo perfectly. If I can do my own offence I will be able to do sumo I won't regret, was my thinking. Everyone around me gone? During a basho, I am concentrating on my own sumo only. I have no wish to think about others, but there is nothing you can do about people getting injured."
 
Lowest ranked Shimanoumi has 5 straight wins as well: Did not answer their calls..
 
Shoudai kyujo, first time in his pro career. 
Edagawa oyakata, ex-Aogiyama: "He is in pain, but he also said he was scared. I think he wants to return at some point this basho, but I don't want him to do anything unreasonable.."
Hakkaku rijicho: "As a new Ozeki there was a feeling of a new start so I'm pretty sure he's devastated. He can still walk so he should be grateful for that. He has to become stronger and beat his opponents before he has to resort to saving himself  at the edge at the last minute. What's most important is becoming healthy again. He feels as an Ozeki that he has to win, so this is an injury as a result of him going all out.. It is what it is, it really is. It's important for the remaining rikishi to show good sumo."
Isegahama, head of judging department: "There is the fact that there is nothing you can do if you get injured, but it's really deplorable that so many joi are out. Usually, it's important to do enough training to avoid injuries.."
Kitanofuji, sharp-tongued TV commentator: "The expectations from him were high. Asanoyama went kyujo and they grew even higher. But when i think of it, his sumo was all over the place from day 1.You don't go kyujo because it hurts. I don't want him to rest because of that. I expected him to battle Asanoyama for the yusho. It's really disappointing for the sumo world as well.."
Shibatayama PR man: "It's difficult when a top rikishi goes kyujo, however unintentionally. Tickets were sold. I just want them all to gambarize!!
 
Terunofuji, beating Hokutofuji for his 5th straight win, throwing him down with a vengeance and causing him to bounce: "Didn't my opponent jump at me? The basho isn't over yet. I'm taking care of my knees by keeping them warm and not letting the inside part or the outside part get cold. I wish Shoudai well and am looking forward to meeting him on the dohyo next basho!"
 
Mitakeumi' beating his two-year University junior Wakatakakage: "We're on a different level. That was one bout i did not want to lose and i was able to show the difference between our positions.."
 
Takanoshou, beating Kiribayama despite the thrashings and going 3-2 in his first sekiwake basho; "I hope to pile up the wins with this fighting spirit.'
 
Chiyonokuni going 5-0, his best start ever, by beating Sadanoumi: "I'm not thinking of that in particular. I'm gambarizing a bout a day!"
 
Takarafuji, getting his 4th win by handing Endou his first loss: "Not bad. I'm able to do good sumo, and hope not to get injured.."
Edited by Kintamayama
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19 minutes ago, Kintamayama said:

Hakkaku rijicho: "As a new Ozeki there was a feeling is of a new start so I'm pretty sure he's devastated. He can still walk so he should be grateful for that. He has to become stronger and beat his opponents before he has to resort to saving himself  at the edge at the last minute. What's most important is becoming healthy again. He feels as an Ozeki that he has to win, so this is an injury as a result of him going all out.. It is what it is, it really is. It's important for the remaining rikishi to show good sumo."

Isegahama, head of judging department: "There is the fact that there is nothing you can do if you get injured, but it's really deplorable that so many joi are out. Usually, it's important to do enough training to avoid injuries.."
Kitanofuji, sharp-tongued TV commentator: "The expectations from him were high. Asanoyama went kyujo and they grew even higher. But when i think of it, his sumo was all over the place from day 1.You don't go kyujo because it hurts. I don't want him to rest because of that. I expected him to battle Asanoyama for the yusho. It's really disappointing for the sumo world as well.."
Shibatayama PR man: "It's difficult when a top rikishi goes kyujo, however unintentionally. Tickets were sold. I just want them all to gambarize!!
Spoiler

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Edited by Benihana

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Yay! The forum is back. I’ve been at such a loss I went to the gym. Twice. I did watch the sumo highlights while using the treadmill though, so I killed two birds.

Anyway, the basho. Sucks that Asanoyama and Shodai are both out and we’ll likely have two kadoban Ozeki in January. Terunofuji might just join them at the rank though if he carries on in beast mode and sweeps his way to a zensho yusho. He looks unstoppable right now. The way he threw Hokutofuji today was frightening.

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On 08/11/2020 at 13:09, Shinobi Steve said:

I could be reading too much into it, but it sure looked like Asanoyama spent a lot of time looking at his right arm afterwards. 

I’ve been waiting days to pat myself on the back for noticing this. Thanks to whoever got the forum back up and gave me the chance to quote myself for attention!

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Four top guys out. The virus is to be blamed. Will the rikishies be among the first group of people to have the vaccine?

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3 minutes ago, Dapeng said:

Four top guys out. The virus is to be blamed. Will the rikishies be among the first group of people to have the vaccine?

?????????????????????????

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2 hours ago, Seiyashi said:

6 should almost guarantee it bar really bad banzuke luck. Only a few 6-win rikishi at M11 have gone down to juryo with the most recent in 1988: http://sumodb.sumogames.de/Query.aspx?show_form=0&form1_rank=m11&form2_rank=j&offset=50.

The size of the division was smaller back then. With the current size of makuuchi I think he has a good chance with 5 wins, like M11e Shimanoumi and Chiyotairyu in the last two basho. 

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2 hours ago, Kintamayama said:

Chiyonokuni going 5-0, his best start ever, by beating Sadanoumi: "I'm not thinking of that in particular. I'm gambarizing a bout a day!"

Winning streak: 16 and counting!

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Yay we're back! Huge thanks to the admins and rescue team :-)

I was suspecting that the forum crash had something to do with Ryuden bouncing :-D

Ura sweet moves! Chiyonokuni is back! Shimanoumi on track for another M17 yusho! Whoa!

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13 minutes ago, Kashunowaka said:

The size of the division was smaller back then. With the current size of makuuchi I think he has a good chance with 5 wins, like M11e Shimanoumi and Chiyotairyu in the last two basho. 

Yeah, I certainly hope so. It's still a bit too early to call, but there seem to be 4 hard-charging promotees in Juryo at the moment and not enough demotion candidates. He has got to go 5 and pray fairly hard, or 6 and be almost certainly safe.

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5 hours ago, code_number3 said:

That izori!

 

5 hours ago, code_number3 said:

Starting watching sumo and follow SUmoforum in 2018, now I can see the wonderful Ura

Ura definitely is a showman when it comes to unusual kimarite techniques.  Compared to Terutsuyoshi who puts on a show with his huge shiomaki salt throw every day, Ura is the exact opposite, choosing to sprinkle just a few grains of salt in his shiomaki.  But then he entertains fans with his sumo brilliance instead.

There was not a single instance of izori back in July, and only one instance at the Jonidan level back in March.  

And for Ura to execute it against a Juryo opponent demonstrates the level of his skill (not to mention his strength and flexibility)!  If my limited Japanese language skills served me, the Japanese commentary on NHK mentioned that it has been 27 years since izori was executed at the Juryo level in tournament competition.

#earlyunspecifiedwinterholidaypresent

Edited by Amamaniac
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5 wins and Enho stays up. Guaranteed. 

I am not generally a fan of slappy sumo, but Takakeisho has solid technique. He also has hinkaku in spades. I am beginning to think I would like to see him as Yokozuna. 

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URA SUMO IS BACK with a rare kimarite. Akiseyama wins another barn burner and is 3-2 at J1. Takakeisho in cruise control. Even with a yusho, I dought he will get the nod for the rope with the 2 Yokozuna and Ozeki out but just my thoughts. Okimoumi and Hokotofuji look jacked, looks like more iron pumping with the virus restrictions. Let see if Terinofuji can stay healthy. 

Edited by Philioyamfugi
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31 minutes ago, Amamaniac said:

And for Ura to execute it against a Juryo opponent demonstrates the level of his skill (not to mention his strength and flexibility)!  If my limited Japanese language skills served me, the Japanese commentary on NHK mentioned that it has been 27 years since izori was executed at the Juryo level in tournament competition.

More trivia - Murray Johnson on the English stream said that the last person to execute it in Juryo was ex-Tomonohana, who was the ringside judge when Ura pulled his off.

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4 minutes ago, Philioyamfugi said:

Akiseyama wins another barn burner and is 3-2 at J1.

Glad you mentioned him! :-)  While his muscle tone leaves something to be desired, my admiration for this guy has been growing.  My first thoughts were that if he keeps fighting the way he has been fighting in the last few tournaments, and gets his kachikoshi, he will break into the top Division!  Hooray for him. 

Little did I know that he actually reached the Top Division back in March of 2016, but it was a very short and rather embarrassing stay.  Not sure how to characterise him.  A veteran (13 years in the ring)?  An iron man (never went kyujo)?  I just like the way he seems to stay calm and collected.  Similar to Hakuho and Kakuryu, he's 35 years old.  Curious to see (a) if he makes it back up to the Top Division, and (b) if so, how long he will remain.  Maybe we will be able to characterise him as the type of late bloomer who fights his best sumo in the twighlight years of active career.

 

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22 minutes ago, Seiyashi said:

More trivia - Murray Johnson on the English stream said that the last person to execute it in Juryo was ex-Tomonohana, who was the ringside judge when Ura pulled his off.

 

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2 hours ago, Kashunowaka said:

The size of the division was smaller back then. With the current size of makuuchi I think he has a good chance with 5 wins, like M11e Shimanoumi and Chiyotairyu in the last two basho. 

Chiyotairyu got some impressive wins among his 5, though.

EDIT: Nevermind, I thought he beat an ozeki or a sekiwake but it was only Onosho (still a good win, but not as impressive as I remembered).

Edited by Bombur

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4 minutes ago, Bombur said:

Chiyotairyu got some impressive wins among his 5, though.

EDIT: Nevermind, I thought he beat an ozeki or a sekiwake but it was only Onosho (still a good win, but not as impressive as I remembered).

Chiyotairyu has been nowhere near the joi for at least a year, if not longer. He did, however, in Aki 2018, post a kinboshi amongst his 5 wins at M2w.

Edited by Seiyashi

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2 hours ago, hakutorizakura said:

Shimanoumi on track for another M17 yusho! Whoa!

If he really wins, they should remove that M17 spot, like the 13th floor in hotels, just for different reasons...I´ll be having had enough then...

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