Non-K-November basho 2020 Discussion (spoiler space)

[DominiKaze 11]

This was a great Tourney! Im still learning alot, but watching these guys was awesome. I think i am developing some favorites too. Tochinoshin fighting his opponents, his injuries, father time, how can I not cheer for that? Tobizaru makes me wanna put on a mawashi myself, he looks like he is having a blast! Hokotofuji and Takarafuji put in some work too! and that last and second to last match?! The mental toughness of Takakeisho like a baseball pitcher having to shrug off getting a home run hit off you and go right back to it. The power of Terunofuji is scary, i can imagine what he would be like if he never injured his knees. What a way to close out the year, I cant wait for the next one.

[Kaioshoryu 62]

Extremely happy about Takakeisho's yusho. I might have a different taste in sumo than a lot of others on the forum, I prefer his style over Terunofuji's. In fact, I like more the rikishi who is smaller in stature, compared to behemoths like Terunofuji, Ichinojo or indeed Baruto looking back a bit. Congrats Taka, and good look for your tsuna run!

[Koorifuu 886]

Ex-Bushuyama survives to stay as Kasugayama-oyakata for another couple of months.

[code_number3 694]

NHK's Sunday Sports November Basho review on 1st 13 minutes

https://jshow.tv/sunsat201122.html

Edited November 22, 2020 by code_number3

[dada78641 884]

I propose that Sumo Forum makes a new award for each basho, called the Sent To Get Bento Award (or just the Bento Award?). Given out to the rikishi sent the furthest into the audience as a result of being shoved out.

The first award should go to Ishiura after his trip today, I think. Unless someone remembers a better one.

Tobizaru also got sent pretty far.

Also, for purposes of posterity, the two players in this basho's big finale:

And Takakeisho's second tournament victory:

[Yamanashi 3,728]

5 minutes ago, dada78641 said:

I propose that Sumo Forum makes a new award for each basho, called the Sent To Get Bento Award (or just the Bento Award?). Given out to the rikishi sent the furthest into the audience as a result of being shoved out.

Kotoyuki, sitting kyujo:  "Dammit, that should have been me!  Just wait until I get back up there!"

[Sue 483]

9 minutes ago, dada78641 said:

I propose that Sumo Forum makes a new award for each basho, called the Sent To Get Bento Award (or just the Bento Award?). Given out to the rikishi sent the furthest into the audience as a result of being shoved out.

The first award should go to Ishiura after his trip today, I think. Unless someone remembers a better one.

(Good job to YY for salvaging a 6-9 after the awful start he got off to, by the way.)

Yutakayama went all the way out the hanamichi a few days ago.

(Good job to YY for salvaging a 6-9 after that awful start he got off to, by the way.)

Edited November 22, 2020 by Sue

[code_number3 694]

29 minutes ago, dada78641 said:

I propose that Sumo Forum makes a new award for each basho, called the Sent To Get Bento Award (or just the Bento Award?). Given out to the rikishi sent the furthest into the audience as a result of being shoved out.

My vote is for Endo vs Tochinoshin. Maybe not far, but the ending was funny enough

o o o

[Yamanashi 3,728]

55 minutes ago, code_number3 said:

My vote is for Endo vs Tochinoshin. Maybe not far, but the ending was funny enough

o o o

Maybe that's the winner of a different award: the "grilled aji".

[rzombie1988 157]

So even though I don't agree with people getting the Yokozuna title without two straight wins, it appears Takakeisho should be the next Yokozuna under Kakuryu and Kisenosato standards.

Remember when Kakuryu got the rope? He won the tournament then the next one after, he lost a playoff to Hakuho? Well, it seems like Terunofuji would be in the position if he wins the next one, unless they try to punish him for his lesser rank.

Edited November 22, 2020 by rzombie1988

[Seiyashi 4,071]

3 minutes ago, rzombie1988 said:

So even though I don't agree with people getting the Yokozuna title without two straight wins, it appears Takakeisho should be the next Yokozuna under Kakuryu and Kisenosato standards.

Remember when Kakuryu got the rope? He won the tournament then the next one after, he lost a playoff to Hakuho? Well, it seems like Terunofuji would be in the position if he wins the next one, unless they try to punish him for his lesser rank.

Don't worry, Isegahama oyakata agrees with you. And there's no "punishing" Terunofuji for his lesser rank; he's simply ineligible for rope promotion unless and until he reascends to ozeki.

Edited November 22, 2020 by Seiyashi

[Yamanashi 3,728]

18 minutes ago, Seiyashi said:

Don't worry, Isegahama oyakata agrees with you. And there's no "punishing" Terunofuji for his lesser rank; he's simply ineligible for rope promotion unless and until he reascends to ozeki.

Since Miyagiyama (records unclear), every Yokozuna spent at least the previous two basho as an Ozeki.

[rzombie1988 157]

1 hour ago, Yamanashi said:

Since Miyagiyama (records unclear), every Yokozuna spent at least the previous two basho as an Ozeki.

He'll have the numbers for Ozeki. Just really depends on how hard they are going to be on his rank levels in a possible Ozeki and Yokozuna run.

The system just punishes legitimate injuries hard, and I'd like to see some kind of adjustment so it doesn't do that anymore. Maybe some kind of set-up where if you are a Tochinoshin or a Terunofuji type, you can take one long period of time off straight without breaks and without pay, but when you do come back, there is no leniency.

Edited November 22, 2020 by rzombie1988

[WAKATAKE 2,631]

I have to say that the field definitely did not disappoint for this basho, even without the yokozuna and two of the ozeki. Takakeisho stood up at the right time and he finally got that prize. Terunofuji in trying to get back to where he fell from is showing that he means serious business, which I think is a good push for Takakeisho and even Asanoyama and Shodai. Hopefully this begins the next big rivalry for the next sumo era.

Takanosho did decent in his sekiwake debut, as did Takayasu fighting to stay in sanyaku. Mita disappointed but he could remain in sanyaku with that last minute rally. Daiesho and Hokutofuji could be out of luck. 

Kudos to Shimanoumi, Ryuden the twerker, Takarafuji and Chiyonokuni for keeping it interesting, especially with Chiyonokuni being rewarded for his efforts having had to come back from career ending injuries.

It looks like a lot of the younger generation certainly had wakeup calls to show that they are not at the level of many of the veteran rikishi who have been at the top for a while (even the younger joi experienced rikishi). Kiribayama, Wakatakakage, Tobizaru, Kotonowaka and Hoshoryu still have a ways to go. Kotoshoho did impress but we'll have to see how he goes about the next basho too.

Best wishes to Enho, he's going to have to go back and do some brainstorming about how he wants to shape his sumo game for 2021. Hello to Midorifuji, hopefully you don't get a smacking to open up the new year. Akiseyama is back, could he be the surprise veteran yusho winner for next year?

Looking forward to see who will be pushing to make a strong campaign in Juryo to make Makuuchi for March. Ura, Jokoryu are back but how far will they go? Welcome to sekitori-hood, Mr. Naya. 

Salute to Kotoshogiku for fighting it out to the end, now enjoy your new career as an oyakata, you certainly deserve it!

Now to some articles:

Takakeisho is officially on a tsuna run, according to Isegahama. "Of course if he yushos, we have to bring the conservation up. However he has to get the yusho the next time or it won't happen. Also, a low level yusho will not look good either." Says the Judging Chief.

https://www.nikkansports.com/battle/sumo/news/202011220000863.html

Terunofuji seems to be back on an ozeki run as stated by his shisho, although whether that 8 win kyujo is included is craftily left out. "The 13 wins will be important going forward" Isegahama says.

https://www.nikkansports.com/battle/sumo/news/202011220000915.html

[Kintamayama 44,354]

Final day rikishi talk:

 

Takakeishou, yusho: "I'm really happy about how things turned out. Since becoming Ozeki, not many good things happened to me and I was thinking I needed to take a mental step forward.. Yokozuna run? If I will be strong, I will win, if I be weak, I be losing. I'd like  to do my best and face myself. I couldn't do this alone. I owe a lot to my oyakata, the okamisan and everyone else who was there for me during the difficult times. All I did was my best, wanting to show the fans some good sumo. That's all I was thinking about during the fifteen days." He also had the most wins of the calendar year, 51 wins.

 

Chiyonokuni, kanto-sho (fighting spirit prize): "In spite of my recurring injuries I was able to calmly do my sumo, which is good. I want to become stronger. I want to build my body so that I don't get injured, and rise to sanyaku!"

 

Shimanoumi, kanto-sho: "I wanted to win that musubi no ichiban bout and get a prize. I now am confident that if I stick to my own sumo I can win."

 

Terunofuji, gino-sho (technique prize) : "I think I was able to go about it calmly this basho. The thirteen wins will connect to the next basho. I have become a bit better.."

 

Juryo Fujiazuma, going 0-15: "I just couldn't get anything going for fifteen days. I can't end it like this. I'll be doing my best to make a comeback!" His whole heya (Tamanoi) was absent from last basho due to the virus and this was their return basho.

 

Takayasu, getting his kachikoshi on the last day, beating Tamawashi: "In the end, I got into a good position and managed to move forward and win. I had a lot of bouts with good quality sumo this basho. I'm glad I was able to make an effort to return to the top ranks and win."

 

Isegahama chief of the judging department on a possible Takakeishou tsuna run : "He has to win the yusho, or else it's not good.. If it will be a low level yusho, questions may arise.."

 

Veteran favorite Ikioi has been struggling in Juryo (ranked at eight, going 5-10) getting three straight makekoshi and standing perilously on the edge of sekitorihood. He doesn't go kyujo so he's a walking set of broken bones.  "Everyone of us has an injury.. I did the best l could do in my current condition, and that was the result. I want to heal myself and look to the future. At my age, I don't intend to give up. Life has its bumps.."

 

Juryo Ura losing on the final day, ending with an excellent 9-6 in his Juryo return basho: "It's really frustrating. I wanted to win on the last day. I intended to go about it so that I won't get pushed to the edge but my legs did not follow. I have to look at this again. Still, I'm relieved I got through the basho safely. Frustrating, but I will train hard and gambarize. I will be concentrating on healing my knees as well."

[rzombie1988 157]

Just some thoughts:

Overall, this was not a strong basho talent wise. Both Yok's were out and two of three Ozeki were out. If there are diamonds in the rough out there, this was the tournament to shine in.

Hakuho and Kakuryu shouldn't be allowed to miss any more tournaments. It's been too many and it's too much of an advantage to get these long vacations while everyone else beats each other up.

I'm actually a little disappointed with Terunofuji's run. He was getting these numbers with stronger fields and really should won this. You can tell his balance is not that great right now and he is a lot more beatable than he used to be. After all this time, I doubt whether that's going to get any better.

Big credit to Takakeisho for possibly getting a Yokozuna run out of this. If there was ever a basho to show up, this was it. His November-July numbers were not Yokozuna level though and if those return, he's going to regret this promotion. I like is confidence and attitude, but I don't think he really is better than Terunofuji.

Asanoyama got unlucky with the injuries. This was a bad tournament to miss for someone like him.

Takayasu and Mitakeumi had really disappointing tournaments and maybe in another timeline, Takayasu is where Takakeisho is right now. "Whatever happened to Takayasu?" feels like a possible headline soon.

 

 

Edited November 22, 2020 by rzombie1988

[sahaven111 172]

14 hours ago, Jakusotsu said:

Does the Ozeki outlook become any more trivial whether Takakeisho is called Yokozuna or Yokozuna-Ozeki?

Let's say, hypothetically... that Hakuho and Kakuryu retired next basho, Takakeisho was promoted, and both Asanoyama and Shodai are demoted, in that instance, There would only be 1 yokozuna, and no ozeki (of course this won't happen because 1. If Terunofuji were to get double digits in this scenario, he would be promoted or 2. If both Hakuho and Kakuryu were retiring, they would reject one's intai papers so they could have 2 Yokozuna-Ozeki.)

[dada78641 884]

3 hours ago, Sue said:

Yutakayama went all the way out the hanamichi a few days ago.

If you mean against Ichinojo, I think he went as far back as Ishiura did (right up to the first row of box seats) but the camera didn't get a shot of exactly how far he went. First shot was when he was already walking back. If you mean his match against Chiyonokuni he didn't go quite as far.

Also, yes, I was definitely thinking of Kotoyuki being the Bento Yokozuna

[Dwale 419]

8 hours ago, Amamaniac said:

I, for one, seriously hope that Enho will regroup after this painful November lesson, and will shoot back up to the Makuuchi Division straight away.  But the Top Division is starting to see a wealth of small men in its ranks.  Going forward, Enho will have his job cut out for him if he wants to succeed.

I think he'll be ok. He can use his time down in juryo to regroup, and, ideally, come back reinvigorated. 

[rzombie1988 157]

23 minutes ago, Dwale said:

I think he'll be ok. He can use his time down in juryo to regroup, and, ideally, come back reinvigorated. 

Enho's too small. He has to work twice as hard as others do and in the end, he's probably just going to get injured when Aoiyama lands on him. We've seen the same thing happen with people like Ura, Ishiura and Takanoyama. Great wrestlers, but there's only so much they can do.

It's a shame but size really matters in sumo.

Edited November 22, 2020 by rzombie1988

[robnplunder 974]

23 minutes ago, Dwale said:

I think he'll be ok. He can use his time down in juryo to regroup, and, ideally, come back reinvigorated. 

I hope he does but the fact that he has sumo style & body size that will be prone to injury won't change unless he takes a page out of Midorifuji's book.  Enho seems to be on the same path of Ura on his first run to Makuuchi and injuries.

[Bombur 50]

Yaaaaaaaaaaay, Takakeisho for the win ! I have been rooting for him since January, glad he finally got it, and what a win! Great performance by Terunofuji too, but Taka went Hamsterzilla to face the Kayju in the playoff!

[Rocks 1,807]

Well, I only caught the last few days but a great finish with playoffs in Juryo and Makuuchi.

Both winners got forced to the playofff and then came back to win having learned from their mistake in the first match.

Midorifuji being less anxious and keeping his balance to avoid the slap down and Takakeisho putting his head down and giving it his all.

To beat Terunofuji Takakeisho needs his hardest push and that comes when he puts his head down. He kept it up in the first match to try to watch what Terunofuji would do.

That was a mistake.

Congrats to both, well deserved. And great to see Terunofuji tearing it up again.

As for January I think, barring injury, Terunofuji is a lock for re-promotion to Ozeki after.

Despite what Isegahama says I think any Yusho gets Takakeisho the rope. He's more than consistent enough to not dishonor the rank. I think Isegahama may be hedging a bit out of consideration for Kakuryu.

Speaking of the Yoks, obviously both need to show up in January. Hankuho can pull out during if he needs to but not Kakuryu. I don't think he needs to win but I think he will need finish or the calls for intai will start.  1 finish, even if it is a Jun Yusho, in a year and a half just isn't going to cut it.

 

Edited November 22, 2020 by Rocks

[Dwale 419]

Enho will probably end up injured, sure. Just like 99% of rikishi do. He is small, he does have to work harder to get the same result a bigger man would. All true.

That's why people like him.

[Bombur 50]

Also, can we talk about how Ichinojo came back from a 2-7 record an won out? As someone put it on Natto's chanel on day 14, if only someone could just make him believe he had 7 losses on every day of the basho, he'd be a monster and no one else might ever win a yusho!