Non-K-November basho 2020 Discussion (spoiler space)

[Amamaniac 2,078]

2 hours ago, nelimw said:

So who realistically thinks that Terunofuji will beat Takakeisho twice tomorrow? Honestly I hope he does but my mind is saying "naa that's not going to happen" 

The prospect itself is alluring, and that is the beauty of sumo tournaments.  Not only do they last 15 days, but if things are still unresolved going into the final day, fans (not to mention the wrestlers involved) are kept waiting and salivating to find out who will win.  There is usually one wrestler that most fans want to see win, but for some reason, upsets are almost as satisfying or at least memorable.

So when it comes to Terunofuji's chances of taking the title tomorrow, the odds are definitely against him winning two straight bouts against a young ball of fire with two good knees.  After all, the "former" Ozeki has yet to beat the "current and only active" Ozeki.  If by chance, Terunofuji figures out a strategy to beat the powerful pusher-thruster, Takakeisho will not let that strategy work a second time.

However, as much as most fans want to see Terunofuji succeed in his fairytale bid to reassume Ozeki status, he doesn't have to steal this championship in order to do so.  His numbers this tournament are already good enough.  My feeling is that if Terunofuji does do the seemingly impossible (i.e., beat an Ozeki twice in a row), it will be a huge slap in the face for Takakeisho who represents the next generation of sumo elite. But I doubt Terunofuji will be concerned about that.  He will definitely be in it to win it.  With his knees the way they are, he probably is well aware that he won't get many more opportunities like this, and he needs to go for it.

Yet another consideration, Terunofuji already has a title this year.  If Takakeisho wins, then we will end up with a different champion in each of this year's five tournaments.  And last, but not least, Takakeisho bringing home the Emperor's Cup will score him big points with his fiancée!  

Edited November 21, 2020 by Amamaniac

[Dwale 419]

Ok, so everyone knows the deal: Terunofuji has to beat Takakeisho twice if he wants the cup. Well, he does want the cup, but can he do it? Yeah, he absolutely can. Terunofuji has better stamina than most guys his size. He has plenty of experience at sumo's apex and, as we all know, power to spare.

 

I would still favor Takakeisho to win this, as he only needs to finish off Terunofuji the one time to seal it, so statistically speaking, the odds are pointing to him. BUT, I am not favoring him as heavily as I otherwise might. If this becomes an endurance thing, Terunofuji will take this yusho. Takakeisho's best bet is to get him out of there before that can happen.

Edited November 21, 2020 by Dwale

[Benevolance 2,453]

Point one: there is no way that banzuke luck will prevail and keep Akiseyama out of Makuuchi, is there? A kachikoshi at Juryo 1 pretty much guarantees that he'll trickle over into the top division like his boobs in a kesho mawashi? 

Point two: with how many people are going "Terunofuji could win" and outlining elaborate scenarios, I'm placing my bet that it's a short fight and Takakeisho wins easily by a slippiotoshi. Bang! He can tuck that trophy in his mawashi to impress the ladies, and the YDC swoons so hard he gets promoted to yokozuna. 

[Kaminariyuki 497]

9 minutes ago, Amamaniac said:

 Takakeisho bringing home the Emperor's Cup will score him big points with his fiancée!  

I love that, and certainly true. And, those two look so cute in their matching yukatas. I suppose it's more likely, but I'm pulling for a Terunofuji double win. And, we have some items of interest for this basho, after all!

Day 14 - an Ichinojo henka for the win. That's it, I've now seen everything.

But, even that wasn't tops for the day. Beyond Terutsuyoshi's rare kimarite to beat one of my favorite rikishi, Enho, we then have Ura, who comes down without doubt as the most dangerous sekitori with their back to you. 

[Seiyashi 4,068]

1 minute ago, Benevolance said:

Point one: there is no way that banzuke luck will prevail and keep Akiseyama out of Makuuchi, is there? A kachikoshi at Juryo 1 pretty much guarantees that he'll trickle over into the top division like his boobs in a kesho mawashi? 

Point two: with how many people are going "Terunofuji could win" and outlining elaborate scenarios, I'm placing my bet that it's a short fight and Takakeisho wins easily by a slippiotoshi. Bang! He can tuck that trophy in his mawashi to impress the ladies, and the YDC swoons so hard he gets promoted to yokozuna. 

Yeah, J1e KK pretty much means you're first in the promotion queue, and there's enough demotees from Makuuchi that means he'll get in.

I think the same. Takakeisho will take care of business in 5 seconds to start a rope run in Hatsu, which will be one hell of a basho. Don't think his last 12-3 JY is good enough: only Kagamisato, Wakanohana I and Kisenosato have been promoted with a 12-3J followed by a yusho, and Hakkaku's comments about his fighting style midway into the basho won't have helped matters.

[WAKATAKE 2,613]

8 hours ago, Akinomaki said:

Sansho prediction:

Gino-sho Terunofuji

Kanto-sho Shimanoumi

Shukun-sho: Terunofuji if he wins the tournament

Shimanoumi is a lock for the Kanto-sho. I think though that Terunofuji will also get the kanto-sho and the obvious pick for shukun-sho if he wins. I think Hokutofuji will be a candidate for the gino-sho considering that he was able to use techniques other than oshi during this basho.

[Kintamayama 44,199]

Day 14 rikishi talk:

Akua, getting his kachikoshi in his Makuuchi debut, was involved in a rear end collision with a dump truck  on the way to the KKan during the first part of the basho, causing him whiplash and lower back pains: "While  taking care of myself,  my body becomes soft occasionally.. I started winning after that. (started off 1-4..). If that dump truck would have been going faster, we wouldn't be having this conversation. I was protected by luck.. Does anyone know Kintamayama's address? I'd like to send him a carton of eggs."

Sekiwake Takanoshou, getting his kachikoshi in his Sekiwake debut: "Before the basho I thought I would be able to achieve it. Then came those three straight losses from day 7. My father and people around me told me to just do my own sumo. That turned things around for me. I was happy with my result last basho as well, but this is a different kind of happy.. This is all thanks to the training I did before the basho."

Ura, winning by ushiromotare, after  a false start: "It's not like I planned it. I didn't practice it in training. There's nothing here I can boast about.. I didn't get my hands down properly before the matta and I am reflecting upon that. I feel regretful towards my opponent.. After getting my fifth loss yesterday, I banished all yusho thoughts from my head and I will gambarize without being conscious of that." He still has a theoretical chance.

Terutsuyoshi, winning against Enhou with another rare kimarite-sotokomata, which hasn't been seen in Makuuchi since Kyokushuuzan did it in January 2005: "I was watching Enhou's bouts on video last night and noticed that he has a habit of extending his left foot. I thought if he gets in that position, this is what I would do. I was taught that in the old days, it was done with the back of the hand and not with the palm. If you use the palm, you are susceptible to get tsukiotosh'd, as your shoulder is open." 

Takakeishou, getting very close to his second yusho, beating Mitakeumi today: "All I can do is to give it my all. I only did what I have been doing for the last 14 days. As for tomorrow's faceoff with Terunofuji, even if you tell me to get stronger now, I won't get stronger now.. If you ask me what I plan to do tomorrow I can't give you a quick response. I just want to show what I have to show. It's important to concentrate and do what comes naturally. "

Kotoshouhou continues to show great sumo facing the top guys as well and gets his kachikoshi, his 12th straight, beating Takayasu today. "I am simply happy. I was told before the basho by my Oyakata that I had been pulling too much lately and that I should do forward moving sumo. In the future I will be doing forward moving sumo that puts pressure on my opponents!"

Terunofuji, beating Shimanoumi and ready for tomorrow's showdown against Takakeishou: "If I accumulate those wins daily, the results will follow.  I'm not conscious of the race coming down to the two of us. Today, all I had in mind was giving it my all. My body responded naturally." He trains a lot with weights these days with his Oyakata Isegahama. "The man is 60 years old and is still adding muscles. I'm 29 so who am I  to say anything? I can only gambarize and concentrate on tomorrow's bout. " If he gets the yusho he will be the 10th Komusubi to achieve that.

Tokushouryuu, first kachikoshi since his yusho in January, after winning seven in his last two bashos:" It's really hard getting that eighth win. I'm happy now, but there's one more bout left.."

Shimanoumi, losing to Terunofuji but putting on a good show, no chance for a yusho now: "I can't win if I let him grab my mawashi. I was a step behind him."

Hokutofuji, getting double digit wins for the first time since January: "In March I struggled without the fans in the stands, but now they are filling the stands again and it made me think that I want to show them good sumo."

 

Edited November 21, 2020 by Kintamayama

[Gurowake 3,873]

1 hour ago, Kaminariyuki said:

Day 14 - an Ichinojo henka for the win. That's it, I've now seen everything.

He had two pretty famous henkas in his Makuuchi debut, against an Ozeki and Yokozuna.  He was quite a bit lighter then though.

[Yamanashi 3,675]

1 hour ago, Kaminariyuki said:

I love that, and certainly true. And, those two look so cute in their matching yukatas. I suppose it's more likely, but I'm pulling for a Terunofuji double win. And, we have some items of interest for this basho, after all!

Day 14 - an Ichinojo henka for the win. That's it, I've now seen everything.

But, even that wasn't tops for the day. Beyond Terutsuyoshi's rare kimarite to beat one of my favorite rikishi, Enho, we then have Ura, who comes down without doubt as the most dangerous sekitori with their back to you. 

If Ura takes the Yusho, there will be an asterisk next to his name, because he backed into it. [but seriously, folks ... ]

[Tigerboy1966 1,372]

If both Takakeisho and Terunofuji fight to the best of their abilities tomorrow there is only one possible outcome, and that is a Terunofuji yusho. I have a hunch that that won't happen. Politics... But as Laurie Anderson said "When justice is gone, there's always force".

[Kaioshoryu 62]

5 hours ago, nelimw said:

So who realistically thinks that Terunofuji will beat Takakeisho twice tomorrow? Honestly I hope he does but my mind is saying "naa that's not going to happen" 

I am 100 % sure that Teru beats Taka twice tomorrow. Why? Because I'm rooting very hard for Takakeisho to take the yusho and go on a proper tsuna run. And since my ozumo hopes never comes true, Teru will win. 

[Yokozuna Hattorizakura 149]

I like how every tournament this year has gone to the final day to decide the yusho.

[Katooshu 3,079]

I think Takakeisho will get it done the first time, but would love to see a playoff 

And juryo is sure 'everyone doing not too bad, but not that good' this basho!

Edited November 21, 2020 by Katooshu

[Kaninoyama 1,650]

It's simple. If Takakeisho keeps Terunofuji off the belt, he will win. If Terunofuji is able to grab the belt twice, he will win. 

I'm personally rooting for a Takakeisho yusho and the start of a Yokozuna run. 

[Reonito 1,295]

It's a yokozuna run for Takakeisho either way, as a 13-2 playoff loss would almost certainly count as a "yusho equivalent" given the status of the current yokozuna.

[yohcun 393]

I'm not usually that into his sumo, but I'd be happy if Takakeisho takes it. I want to see him earn his reward for how well he stepped up and upheld the honor of the yoko-zeki ranks after they all crumbled away this time.

[sahaven111 167]

Who would have thought this little round guy was going to be a yokozuna candidate? that's what i figure we all love about him...

[Sakura 1,461]

10 minutes ago, sahaven111 said:

 that's what i figure we all love about him...

all? I don't love anything about him.

[Koorifuu 858]

I can't possibly be the only one who subconsciously assumed for a split-second that Tobizaru's win over Takakeisho was a kinboshi, before thinking straight about it? Somehow it had that feel.

Edited November 22, 2020 by Koorifuu

[WAKATAKE 2,613]

50 minutes ago, Reonito said:

It's a yokozuna run for Takakeisho either way, as a 13-2 playoff loss would almost certainly count as a "yusho equivalent" given the status of the current yokozuna.

The 12-3 JY also helps. However you can bet that Hatsu will HAVE to be a yusho in order for them to promote him. That's why they didn't promote Kise at all during 2016.

[Kaninoyama 1,650]

53 minutes ago, sahaven111 said:

Who would have thought this little round guy was going to be a yokozuna candidate? that's what i figure we all love about him...

A few of us have been touting him since early on. There still seems to be more nonbelievers than believers though. 

[Yamanashi 3,675]

11 minutes ago, WAKATAKE said:

The 12-3 JY also helps. However you can bet that Hatsu will HAVE to be a yusho in order for them to promote him. That's why they didn't promote Kise at all during 2016.

Considering the possibility of two Yokozuna and two Ozeki under the gun, and two or three rikishi pushing from below (Terunofuji, Hokutofuji, Wakatakakage, others?), a yusho from Takakeisho would be the easiest ticket-punch in years!

[Yamanashi 3,675]

Jeez, poor Oki, 0-15 in Juryo and now 1-6 at Ms13.  Injury?  Confidence collapse?

[Asojima 2,870]

28 minutes ago, Yamanashi said:

Considering the possibility of two Yokozuna and two Ozeki under the gun, and two or three rikishi pushing from below (Terunofuji, Hokutofuji, Wakatakakage, others?), a yusho from Takakeisho would be the easiest ticket-punch in years!

The banzuke requires 2 Ozekis.  Yokozunas are expendable.  Two or three reliable Ozekis will be needed before they can safely punch his ticket.  He may  be stuck where he is until he has a safe (or forced) exit from Ozeki.  A yokozuna can fill in as a yokozuna-ozeki, but this is not a desirable situation.

Edited November 22, 2020 by Asojima

[Reonito 1,295]

5 minutes ago, Asojima said:

The banzuke requires 2 Ozekis.  Yokozunas are expendable.  Two or three reliable Ozekis will be needed before they can safely punch his ticket.

Yokozuna can serve as Ozeki for the purposes of the banzuke, as we recently saw with Kakuryu. And were he to pull off back-to-back yusho, they couldn't not promote him, regardless of the rest of the banzuke.

Edited November 22, 2020 by Reonito