Non-K-November basho 2020 Discussion (spoiler space)

[Seiyashi 4,068]

44 minutes ago, Benevolance said:

1 hour ago, lackmaker said:

I still tend to root for Mitakeumi. Extended stays in junior sanyaku are no easy feat, much to be admired.

Too true! I bet if you ask people to name the most admirable rikishi of this era, nine out of ten name Goeidou! 

It's not his performance that irks me, it's his fairly constant mouthing off and then failing to walk the talk that irritates me. I believe Kintamayama-san earlier this basho posted the interview of Mitakeumi that said he "aimed to impact the yusho race" or words to that effect when already 2 losses behind. And then there's the "I want to make ozeki" every so often and then the failure to actually make it. You'd think he'd learn and not say as much once he failed to make good the third or fourth time, especially since his peers don't seem to have any trouble doing so.

It'd be completely in character for him to "impact" the yusho race by beating Takakeisho tomorrow, except when he can't actually win the yusho himself.

Edited November 20, 2020 by Seiyashi

[Amamaniac 2,078]

12 minutes ago, Seiyashi said:

It'd be completely in character for him to "impact" the yusho race by beating Takakeisho tomorrow, except when he can't actually win the yusho himself.

Every so often, he has to give his mother and her band of Mitakeumi supporters something ... to cheer about.  

But now that he seems to have stalled in "junior" Sanyaku, even his mother doesn't seem to be making appearances at the Kokugikan during official tournaments.  It's rough when your own mother gives up on you. 

[Seiyashi 4,068]

4 minutes ago, Amamaniac said:

Every so often, he has to give his mother and her band of Mitakeumi supporters something ... to cheer about.  

But now that he seems to have stalled in "junior" Sanyaku, even his mother doesn't seem to be making appearances at the Kokugikan during official tournaments.  It's rough when your own mother gives up on you. 

I wonder which way the relationship goes, actually - whether he's performing worse than usual (back to back 8-7s is a bit much even for him) because he has no support, or there's no support because he's performing badly.

[Jabbamaru 166]

Little Sato now is all-might Ozeki Takakeisho. And that makes me fear for the sport. Down with the 1 gaijin per heya thing...Bring the mongolians! Bring the "Russians"! Bring the hawaians! Ozumo is needing! No more Maeg17 yushos for Buda's sake!

[Yubinhaad 11,499]

It seems that back on Day 7, Shohoryu accidentally clipped Shikimori Inosuke's gunbai with the bow while performing the yumitori-shiki.

[Kotomiyama 161]

Great kekaeshi from Tobizaru today.

I wonder why it is not seen more often. It seems like a really effective kimarite against slow and big oponents and yet only a handful are attempted each tournament. 

[Kintamayama 44,186]

More day 13 chatter:

Tobizaru, doing that ketaguri and beating Takayasu heartily: "My body suddenly moved.."

Takakeishou, sole leader after beating Shimanoumi. In January he faced then lowest ranker and eventual yusho winner Tokushouryuu and lost to him. "I was weak. I did not fulfill my Ozeki obligations. In the end, he who is stronger wins. I didn't feel anything special today, facing the lowest ranked opponent. I want to fulfill everybody's expectations.  I'm the one mounting the dohyo. I wish to gambarize fully!"

Ura, fifth loss in Juryo: "I failed.. I will gambarize for the next two days with the intention to win. I think my heyamate Shimanoumi  is doing incredibly well!"

Tamawashi, shoving Kagayaki out quickly, ending his three bout losing streak: "It was really good today. I want to do my own sumo for the two remaining days."

Takanoshou, beating Mitakeumi: "When all you think about is doing your sumo till the end, it results in that quality.. I hope to win doing my own sumo."

 

Spoiler

Man, this is soooooo BOOOOORING..

 

[Asashosakari 18,650]

9 hours ago, Seiyashi said:

Yes, but here's the important part - the important part of Hakuho's dominance which you've rightly listed is stuff you can't physically see - the mentality of having an opponent know he's defeated before he even fights. If fans want to see an ozeki "dominate" the opponent, well, unless an opponent is so unprepared against Takakeisho that they allow two blasts to the chest, we're never going to see that kind of thing with Takakeisho. Especially when he seems to have decided that he would fight a bit more upright and defensive than go all out and get slapped down. It's working by the numbers which is the big thing in a yusho. Can he do both numbers and visual dominance? Not with smart opposition he won't.

The thing is, if there's no utterly dominant dai-yokozuna around, you don't need that whole package. Musashimaru ended up winning a heck of a lot of yusho just by being the last man standing of the 1990s big guns and putting up 12 to 13 wins basho after basho from 1999 to 2002, and IMHO without ever really having instilled any fear factor in his opponents or looking like he's unbeatable to fans. Health aside, Takakeisho's career prospects are very much in the hands of everybody else, whether it be Asanoyama's sumo maturing to the heights people expect him capable of, or somebody completely new taking the sumo world by storm.

[Eikokurai 3,433]

1 hour ago, Kotomiyama said:

Great kekaeshi from Tobizaru today.

I wonder why it is not seen more often. It seems like a really effective kimarite against slow and big oponents and yet only a handful are attempted each tournament. 

I guess because to attempt a sweep you have to take your own leg off the floor which makes you unstable and thus vulnerable to a shove. Also, the normal defensive stance (legs behind, leaning forward, arms out) means the distance from your legs to your opponent’s is often a fair stretch. Sweeps only really become viable once you’ve either gotten to the side or have completely separated and have the speed and agility to ‘raid’ your aite’s personal space and get away again before he grabs a hold of you. Trips are more feasible (and more common) as they can be applied in close quarters, e.g. in a chest-to-chest yorikiri struggle where both men are upright, you can hook a leg around a knee relatively easily.

Edited November 20, 2020 by Eikokurai

[Kaninoyama 1,649]

12 hours ago, Seregost said:

I'm not a fan, but I think Takakeisho has been fighting great this tournament. Most of his wins have been fast and clear, except maybe today and the last second rescue in the tawara against Kiribiyama. If he had to go zensho convincingly, he would be Hakuho.

This. I don't get the Takakeisho hate. He's been putting on an oshi clinic this basho. 

[Kaioshoryu 62]

23 minutes ago, Kaninoyama said:

This. I don't get the Takakeisho hate. He's been putting on an oshi clinic this basho. 

FWIV, I'm a big fan of Takakeisho and really hopes he clinches the yusho with a decisive win over Terunofuji. Ideal winning method would be a big, fat henka, but Taka doesn't dabble in those. Teru, on the other hand....

[Seregost 119]

36 minutes ago, Eikokurai said:

I guess because to attempt a sweep you have to take your own leg off the floor which makes you unstable and thus vulnerable to a shove. Also, the normal defensive stance (legs behind, leaning forward, arms out) means the distance from your legs to your opponent’s is often a fair stretch. Sweeps only really become viable once you’ve either gotten to the side or have completely separated and have the speed and agility to ‘raid’ your aite’s personal space and get away again before he grabs a hold of you. Trips are more feasible (and more common) as they can be applied in close quarters, e.g. in a chest-to-chest yorikiri struggle where both men are upright, you can hook a leg around a knee relatively easily.

Remember a missed leg trip has recently taken out a Yokozuna for almost three basho

[Yamanashi 3,671]

4 hours ago, lackmaker said:

No one claims either are the most admirable but lets not diminish the achievements of those who have outperformed so many of their contemporaries. Unless we can only really cheer the champions.

For rikishi with HD in this century and highest rank = Sekiwake:

Shikona       # basho at S       # basho at K

Mitakeumi        14                         7

Tochiozan         11                      15

Tamawashi         8                        5

Myogiryu             8                        5

Ichinojo               8                        2

(sorry for the spacing; I can't get the table to load)

[bettega 422]

Goeido was 15 Sekiwake and  4 Komosubi before Ozeki

[Seiyashi 4,068]

5 hours ago, Kaioshoryu said:

FWIV, I'm a big fan of Takakeisho and really hopes he clinches the yusho with a decisive win over Terunofuji. Ideal winning method would be a big, fat henka, but Taka doesn't dabble in those. Teru, on the other hand....

The good news is, after the reaction to his last henka, I don't think he'll dare to pull one off in the musubi. 

Edited November 21, 2020 by Seiyashi

[Gurowake 3,872]

8 hours ago, Kotomiyama said:

Great kekaeshi from Tobizaru today.

I wonder why it is not seen more often. It seems like a really effective kimarite against slow and big oponents and yet only a handful are attempted each tournament. 

Leg sweeps are very unstable if you can't put your hand to the ground to anchor yourself.  Not being able to do that makes you insanely vulnerable.

[robnplunder 974]

Was that another Izori by Ura?   Nice!

[WAKATAKE 2,613]

23 minutes ago, Seiyashi said:

The good news is, after the reaction to his last henka, I don't think he'll dare to pull one off in the musubi. 

If Teru were to try a henka in the musubi, the NSK would question his qualifications for the return to ozeki if he is considered. And of course that henka is etched in the minds of many. I saw it live and definitely felt like the crowd.

[WAKATAKE 2,613]

6 minutes ago, robnplunder said:

Was that another Izori by Ura?   Nice!

Apparently it's being called "ushiromotare"

[robnplunder 974]

Midorifuji maintains his sole yusho lead.  The little guy has got skills.  He may "stick" in Makuuchi.  

 

[Thorbjarn 214]

I really like Chiyotairyus Kinnikuman kesho mawashi. 

Stoked for today's bouts. 

I think the flag Takakeisho catches is a little unfair and unwarranted. I strongly prefer Yotsu to Oshi, but he is still very young and when healthy seems to be able to get double digit kks, so his accomplishments should not be diminishes. His bad results as Ozeki came when he was injured, it seemed. I don't see him as a future Yokozuna, but a) time will tell and b) not every Ozeki is. If Takakeisho can be a contender who is in the Yusho race during the last two days, that is also a great feat. 

I don't have the knowledge a lot of you do, but I do have a feeling looking for the "next Hakuho" would be a futile task. There will be no one with the same aura ever in sumo (going out on a limp here). 

[Akinomaki 39,497]

Ishiura did a very good Enho impersonation - as the typical Enho of this basho

[yohcun 393]

Akiseyama all but seals the most unlikely makuuchi promotion in a long time*. This basho has now peaked as far as I'm concerned.
 

*except maybe that one guy, Teru-whatev'r.

Edited November 21, 2020 by yohcun

[Thorbjarn 214]

4 minutes ago, Akinomaki said:

Ishiura did a very good Enho impersonation - as the typical Enho of this basho

... which is not something one should go for... Poor Enho...

I'm also happy for Akiseyama, he just seems to be a likeable dude

[Eikokurai 3,433]

5 minutes ago, yohcun said:

Akiseyama all but seals makuuchi promotion in a long time*. This basho has now peaked as far as I'm concerned.
 

*except maybe that one guy, Teru-whatev'r.

Come January it will be a little shy of five years since his one 4-11 makekoshi appearance at M16. I’m sure he’ll be hoping to get the coveted M17 spot this time.