Yarimotsu 548 Posted February 12 I stumbled across this thread while trying to see if anyone had commented on the (unrelated) Ozeki Araiwa, who the DB says was born Feb 29 1871 (not a leap year?). What an amazing read, and how sad that Cal didn't get to see his memoirs published. I wonder if @since_94 has had any chance to follow this up with Cal's relatives in more recent days? 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Tigerboy1966 1,412 Posted February 14 On 12/02/2024 at 08:50, Yarimotsu said: Feb 29 1871 (not a leap year?) If this is not just an error it's a bit of a puzzle. I was wondering if it was a combination of Japan still using the Julian calendar and a super-late Lunar new year. Another possibility is that Japan was using the Emperor's era for the calendar. Meiji 3 would have run from September 1870, which was a leap year to September 1871. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Yokozuna Hattorizakura 151 Posted February 14 On 12/02/2024 at 19:50, Yarimotsu said: I stumbled across this thread while trying to see if anyone had commented on the (unrelated) Ozeki Araiwa, who the DB says was born Feb 29 1871 (not a leap year?). What an amazing read, and how sad that Cal didn't get to see his memoirs published. I wonder if @since_94 has had any chance to follow this up with Cal's relatives in more recent days? According to JP wikipedia, he was born on April 18 1871, which was the 29th day of the second lunar month on the old kyureki calendar. No source for this info, and EN wiki says 1 March for some reason. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Tsuchinoninjin 1,261 Posted August 6 On 14/02/2024 at 07:21, Yokozuna Hattorizakura said: According to JP wikipedia, he was born on April 18 1871, which was the 29th day of the second lunar month on the old kyureki calendar. No source for this info, and EN wiki says 1 March for some reason. The only link to a source on the JP wikipedia is an old book, and strangely the date is completely different. 'Araiwa Kamenosuke, real name Yamazaki (Yamasaki on sumodb) ?Gokuzau? (doesn't make sense, stupid old readings), born on the date Meiji 5 month 10 (1872 Nov?), in [really long place name] Later in the text it says he was in Makushita at 20 years old in Meiji 24, which is maybe what the wiki is using? BUT they could have been using the convention of coming out of the womb at 1 year old and incrementing the age on the new year. Or the first date isn't his birth date and they're getting that from somewhere else. Regarding the given real name, 徳藏 ? Tokuzou? It completely doesn't match anything on wiki. https://dl.ndl.go.jp/pid/860416/1/39 If anyone wants to take a look, 廿 is 二十 by the way. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Yarimotsu 548 Posted August 6 (edited) 7 hours ago, Tsuchinoninjin said: The only link to a source on the JP wikipedia is an old book, and strangely the date is completely different. 'Araiwa Kamenosuke, real name Yamazaki (Yamasaki on sumodb) ?Gokuzau? (doesn't make sense, stupid old readings), born on the date Meiji 5 month 10 (1872 Nov?), in [really long place name] Later in the text it says he was in Makushita at 20 years old in Meiji 24, which is maybe what the wiki is using? BUT they could have been using the convention of coming out of the womb at 1 year old and incrementing the age on the new year. Or the first date isn't his birth date and they're getting that from somewhere else. Regarding the given real name, 徳藏 ? Tokuzou? It completely doesn't match anything on wiki. https://dl.ndl.go.jp/pid/860416/1/39 If anyone wants to take a look, 廿 is 二十 by the way. It took me a while to get used to the style, but I have to agree that this old book says he was born in Meiji 5's 10th month. So I'm not sure what the source on the April 18th 1771 date is but it isn't here. Meiji 5 ends on 5/12/2, after which comes 6/1/1 and standardisation to the modern calendar - it's unclear to me if this date being so close to the changeover and the book clearly being written many years after the fact increase or decrease the odds that 10th month refers to October (as opposed to November). For the given name, same deal - nowhere in the text mentions Tokusaburo with the distinct 3 kanji required for that. Perhaps confused with his father's name somehow (which appears to be Ginzaburo as best I can read that furigana). The furigana provided for the actual given name does appear to be goku(z/s)au at first glance but on comparing with other furigana in the passage, I'd be confident saying that first kanji is still toku. The second kanji should be sou/zou - and Tokuzou does appear to be a name used around that time: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tokuzō_Akiyama . Interestingly, this name can also be spelt with just the first two kanji of the supposed Tokusaburo as it is here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tokuzō_Fukuda - I'd like to see a second source closer to the date for this Araiwa correction to be called conclusive. Edit: A search for this name on the rapidly diminishing Google engine reveals one single page: https://blog.goo.ne.jp/k3tanaka_1948/e/cf9441cad7713c9b597cd299de94076e/?st=0 . Here we see Araiwa listed with this name unambiguously, and as 27 years of age in May, Meiji 31 (I haven't confirmed directly with the referenced source). Looking at some of the other names on the list and cross-referencing with sumoDB, there is wild inconsistency with some of the dates we have and some don't have dates recorded at all. All the ones I checked at least indicate that this is using the method of starting at 1 year old and incrementing at new years' day, but that would mean some other wrestlers are off by a year.. Regardless, assuming the source exists for this one then we have two Meiji-era sources telling us he was born in 1872, not 1871. Edited August 6 by Yarimotsu 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kamitsuumi 389 Posted August 7 You seem to have misread the furigana. と is this font looks a lot like ご 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
