Promotion/Demotion/Yusho Discussion Aki 2020

[Eikokurai 3,437]

Aw, I really thought Naya was going to make it to Juryo.

[robnplunder 975]

4 hours ago, Iwayama said:

I wasn't aware Takagenji had a dark past.

I don't know of any other past.  He had a few inappropriate behaviors in the ring that was disdainful (e.g, not bowing, etc).

Edited September 30, 2020 by robnplunder

[Jakusotsu 5,995]

7 minutes ago, robnplunder said:

(e.g, not vowing, etc).

lazy index finger is a vitch

[robnplunder 975]

11 minutes ago, Jakusotsu said:

lazy index finger is a vitch

Fixed.  Thanks.  

[pricklypomegranate 730]

3 hours ago, Tsuchinoninjin said:

It’s quite a long story spread over several older threads here (some eaten by the software) but Takagenji and his twin were in Takanohanas stable. Takanohana was in the middle of trying to seriously disrupt the old guard in the kyokai on the heels of Harumafuji attacking Takanoiwa (his other Deshi ). He had a lot of outside support and one of his main talking points was eliminating behind the scenes violence and being more open about heya happenings. However it came out that Takagenji and his twin were hazing and being really not nice to other heyamates. This caused Takanohanas efforts to implode and he retired from the kyokai. I think some additional stuff happened with Takanoiwa too. 

After that Takagenji s twin beat people a couple of times (getting chances to correct his behavior) and was essentially expelled but not before hiring a lawyer and threatening to sue for reinstatement. So Takagenji was left by himself and fell pretty hard down the banzuke after all this stuff with his twin. Many people just think it’s a matter of time before he gets involved with something again as well.

i guess the silver lining of COVID happening has swept this sour story out of our recent memory.

Yup, this is exactly what I was referring to. Apparently some rikishi were shocked Takanofuji was being punished as they felt Takagenji was the worse of the two. 

[Akinomaki 40,666]

3 hours ago, Tsuchinoninjin said:

i guess the silver lining of COVID happening has swept this sour story out of our recent memory.

On the forum this went into oblivion as the first mega HF thread vanished into the void

[Akinomaki 40,666]

For your banzuke guesses

Just now, Akinomaki said:

The 28 Tamanoi kyujo rikishi all keep their banzuke ranks. Isegahama chief shimpan told it on the phone today. https://www.jiji.com/jc/article?k=2020093000929&g=spo

[Seiyashi 4,102]

3 hours ago, Sakura said:

I don't have a prediction, but I am interested in the exact placement of Shiraishi

Stays in the makushita joi.

[Otokonoyama 2,735]

12 hours ago, Yamanashi said:

Strange choice of messengers, especially in status-conscious Japan: two former Sekiwakes welcome Shodai to the Ozeki Club.  Isn't there some sort of procedural rule about that??

Not sure about that. Two NSK executives formally announce his promotion in person. Both longtime makuuchi veterans. Respected oyakata. The lowliest oyakata outranks even Hakuho. For Kisenosato's promotion to yokozuna, former sekiwake Kasugano and Takadagawa were the messengers.

[Yubinhaad 11,728]

12 hours ago, Yamanashi said:

13 hours ago, Yubinhaad said:

The messengers delivering the good news are Kagamiyama-oyakata (former Sekiwake Tagaryu) and Tatekawa-oyakata (former Sekiwake Tosanoumi).

Strange choice of messengers, especially in status-conscious Japan: two former Sekiwakes welcome Shodai to the Ozeki Club.  Isn't there some sort of procedural rule about that??

As far as I know the senior messenger is always a member of the board, in this case Kagamiyama is the one from Tokitsukaze ichimon. The only one with a higher rank among the ichimon oyakata is Michinoku (ex-Kirishima), but he's not on the board so I think it might be considered strange if an ex-Ozeki was the junior messenger here.

[Asashosakari 19,500]

2 minutes ago, Yubinhaad said:

As far as I know the senior messenger is always a member of the board, in this case Kagamiyama is the one from Tokitsukaze ichimon. The only one with a higher rank among the ichimon oyakata is Michinoku (ex-Kirishima), but he's not on the board so I think it might be considered strange if an ex-Ozeki was the junior messenger here.

If I'm not mistaken the second messenger is always one of the ichimon's members of the judging department. The riji doesn't always appear to be an ichimon representative, from what I can tell, e.g. it was Dewanoumi for both Takakeisho and Asanoyama. I suppose it couldn't have been rijicho Hakkaku for Asanoyama anyway, but Nishonoseki-ichimon surely would have had options available among their directors.

[Reonito 1,477]

9 hours ago, Sakura said:

I don't have a prediction, but I am interested in the exact placement of Shiraishi

I'd guess he'll stay where he was, strictly based on the Fujiazuma's apparent non-demotion as inferred from the number of promotions.

EDIT: Just saw the post above that everyone in the heya keeps their banzuke slot.

Edited September 30, 2020 by Reonito

[Iwayama 25]

11 hours ago, Tsuchinoninjin said:

It’s quite a long story spread over several older threads here (some eaten by the software) but Takagenji and his twin were in Takanohanas stable. Takanohana was in the middle of trying to seriously disrupt the old guard in the kyokai on the heels of Harumafuji attacking Takanoiwa (his other Deshi ). He had a lot of outside support and one of his main talking points was eliminating behind the scenes violence and being more open about heya happenings. However it came out that Takagenji and his twin were hazing and being really not nice to other heyamates. This caused Takanohanas efforts to implode and he retired from the kyokai. I think some additional stuff happened with Takanoiwa too. 

After that Takagenji s twin beat people a couple of times (getting chances to correct his behavior) and was essentially expelled but not before hiring a lawyer and threatening to sue for reinstatement. So Takagenji was left by himself and fell pretty hard down the banzuke after all this stuff with his twin. Many people just think it’s a matter of time before he gets involved with something again as well.

i guess the silver lining of COVID happening has swept this sour story out of our recent memory.

Ah, thank you! I was aware of his brother's actions, I'm disappointed Takagenji was involved in some of the hazing as well. 

[RabidJohn 1,816]

4 hours ago, Iwayama said:

I'm disappointed Takagenji was involved in some of the hazing as well. 

Do you honestly believe this kind of thing only took place when Takanohana, Takanoiwa and Takakeisho weren't in the room?

There's footage of Takanohana involved in some fairly brutal training back when he was a rikishi. It's the world he was brought up in.

Another oyakata was removed as stable master just a couple of months ago because he was still using 'the old ways'. It's endemic in sumo - and very hard for some of these old leopards to change their spots.

[RabidJohn 1,816]

18 hours ago, Houmanumi said:

 

 

Thanks for the link.

The extremely long Banzai toast pose for the cameras (starts 24:30) put me in mind of Police Squad, especially when the lady immediately behind Shodai slowly looked around as if thinking, 'Are we really still doing this?'

[Yamanashi 3,874]

@Otokonoyama, @Yubinhaad, @Asashosakari, thanks for the information.  It just struck me as strange.  Is there any such rule for announcing a Yokozuna?

[Gurowake 4,088]

On 29/09/2020 at 21:07, Yamanashi said:

Strange choice of messengers, especially in status-conscious Japan: two former Sekiwakes welcome Shodai to the Ozeki Club.  Isn't there some sort of procedural rule about that??

At the time, I commented on the fact that ex-Dejima was one of the messengers to inform Goeido of his promotion, and given that people weren't so sure about Goeido being able to stay Ozeki (and very nearly did get demoted quickly), I thought it seemed a rather odd choice to send someone who had been Ozeki for such a short period of time before demotion.

[Nantonoyama 252]

8 hours ago, Gurowake said:

At the time, I commented on the fact that ex-Dejima was one of the messengers to inform Goeido of his promotion, and given that people weren't so sure about Goeido being able to stay Ozeki (and very nearly did get demoted quickly), I thought it seemed a rather odd choice to send someone who had been Ozeki for such a short period of time before demotion.

I am not sure at after retirement, that matters that much. Just as Kaio, he is regarded as a yusho winner former ozeki.

And his ozeki stint was rather short, but not that short (2 full years, more than Tochinoshin, a bit less than Takayasu). The only thing is that it happened early in his career, which is quite a characteristic feature. Also, people (including myself) that discovered sumo in the mid-2000's only remember him as a maegashira.