Sakura

Promotion/Demotion/Yusho Discussion Aki 2020

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19 hours ago, Tiger Tanaka said:

That being said, the long tenure of inconsistency does give me some pause as to how successful his Ozeki reign will be, especially if the Yokozuna return for one more run in 2021. 

We need to remind ourselves that the Yokozunae are not as formidable as they used to be and both being out for a while now and older, we don't know how they will match up against the up and comers. I fear Kakuryuu will not overcome his injuries, and Hakuhou will come out to play maybe twice a year until the Olympics, and I wonder how much longer he can continue his dominance when he's around and healthy. 

Edited by Kintamayama
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On 27/09/2020 at 14:54, Atenzan said:

Well, that was quick. Ozeki promotion reportedly confirmed in a special meeting. 

Wednesday, as usual. Everything always happens on a Wednesday. Juryo promotion announcement? Wednesday. 

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31 minutes ago, Kintamayama said:

Wednesday, as usual. Everything always happens on a Wednesday. Juryo promotion announcement? Wednesday. 

A possible explanation:

Sunday -- constant drinking starting after final ceremonies until early morning

Monday -- phone call asking when we can meet; "Hell, not tomorrow, my head is exploding!"; How about Wednesday?; "Yah, yah, goway byebye."

Tuesday -- "We should have met today.  Oh, what are we talking about tomorrow?"

Wednesday -- meeting

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I am strangely intrigued about whether Chiyonoumi or Naya will get promoted...consensus seems Naya despite the 2.5 ranks. I suppose depending on what happens with the Tamanoi boys they both could.

Edited by Katooshu
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Tamanoi boys handling- how about they keep them at their ranks but add  them as haridashi at that rank? Remember when Soukokurai was reinstated? Naah, they prolly wouldn't add 20 something haridashi ranks.. But it would be the fairest, no?

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21 minutes ago, Kintamayama said:

Tamanoi boys handling- how about they keep them at their ranks but add  them as haridashi at that rank? Remember when Soukokurai was reinstated? Naah, they prolly wouldn't add 20 something haridashi ranks.. But it would be the fairest, no?

Sokokurai was just put back at the last rank he would have last been (the blank spot now).  I expect (and hope) they simply do the same thing - as if kosho.

Edited by Gurowake

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1 hour ago, Kintamayama said:

Tamanoi boys handling- how about they keep them at their ranks but add  them as haridashi at that rank? Remember when Soukokurai was reinstated? Naah, they prolly wouldn't add 20 something haridashi ranks.. But it would be the fairest, no?

I'd suggested in the Tamanoi thread that they could just inflict a 7-8 makekoshi, slide everyone over a half-rank, and be done with it. The only case that might need special handling would have been Fujiazuma because it seems very unfair to dump him out of juryo from J14e for this, hence the 7-8 minimal demotion; Shiraishi would probably not want too large a demotion out of the makushita joi either. Everyone else can afford to lose a couple of ranks.

The net effect would be something similar to kosho, but I'm not sure if they want to resurrect the idea and the concept.

Edited by Seiyashi
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3 hours ago, Seiyashi said:

I'd suggested in the Tamanoi thread that they could just inflict a 7-8 makekoshi, slide everyone over a half-rank, and be done with it. The only case that might need special handling would have been Fujiazuma because it seems very unfair to dump him out of juryo from J14e for this, hence the 7-8 minimal demotion; Shiraishi would probably not want too large a demotion out of the makushita joi either. Everyone else can afford to lose a couple of ranks.

The net effect would be something similar to kosho, but I'm not sure if they want to resurrect the idea and the concept.

I get what you're saying and I don't disagree, but really you may as well do kosho. A period where a global pandemic led to a cancelled tournament and now enforced kyujo certainly qualifies as 'extraordinary times' and thus a kosho can be justified as 'extraordinary measures', and not a true resurrection of the idea/concept.

Edited by Houmanumi
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On 28/09/2020 at 00:15, Sakura said:

Mitakeumi looked lacklustre again and finishes with a mere kachi-koshi. As @Reonito says, an Ozeki promotion is possible if he pulls out 33 wins, but that means 14-1 to get to that number in November, probably quite difficult for a man who has just three double-digit winning records in 20 basho as a Sanyaku.

13-2 + yusho ought to do it as well, I reckon, which would leave him with the same as Shodai's record, just with the first two results inverted. Mitakeumi's longer track record would probably make up for Shodai's superior recent history beyond the three-basho run.

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The Kyokai board unanimously approved Shodai's promotion. The messengers delivering the good news are Kagamiyama-oyakata (former Sekiwake Tagaryu) and Tatekawa-oyakata (former Sekiwake Tosanoumi).

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Edited by Yubinhaad
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Congratulations, Shodai! Wonderful news for this grey Wednesday morning. Also last day of work before a four day weekend!

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43 minutes ago, Yubinhaad said:

The messengers delivering the good news are Kagamiyama-oyakata (former Sekiwake Tagaryu) and Tatekawa-oyakata (former Sekiwake Tosanoumi).

Strange choice of messengers, especially in status-conscious Japan: two former Sekiwakes welcome Shodai to the Ozeki Club.  Isn't there some sort of procedural rule about that??

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Is anybody aware of Shodai's acceptance phrase? I can't watch the ceremony yet as I'm at work.

EDIT: Found it: 至誠一貫, which google tells me means "In the spirit of sincerity and consistency". 

It's available here though, fyi:

 

 

 

 

Edited by Houmanumi

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So I guess the difference in rank between Chiyonoumi and Naya was just too great to justify promoting the one who won their match in Juryo.  Or they just changed their mind about that criteria, which happens often.

Also very glad to only see 4 names on that list.

Edited by Gurowake

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13 minutes ago, Houmanumi said:

Juryo Promotions are:

  • Ms1e Takagenji (4-3)
  • Ms1w Jokoryu (4-3)
  • Ms2e Chiyonoumi (4-3)
  • Ms5w Ura (6-1) 

URA! YES!!!

Knowing Takagenji's dark past, I feel pretty indifferent about his re-promotion but I hope his brother's recent win will cheer him up a little. 

I'm glad Jokoryu is back and has something to report to his little girl about. I'm very curious to see this character. 

Chiyonoumi I don't really know about. 

I'm very happy to see Ura's cherry blossom mawashi and his skills again. Same as Jokoryu as I've heard much about yet never seen him. 

No shin-juryo folks and was a little disappointed but not surprised by Naya's non-promotion. I hope he does not feel disheartened and make a more decisive case next basho. 

Looks like I have to pay attention to Juryo a lot more now... 

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23 minutes ago, pricklypomegranate said:

Knowing Takagenji's dark past, I feel pretty indifferent about his re-promotion but I hope his brother's recent win will cheer him up a little. 

I'm glad Jokoryu is back and has something to report to his little girl about. I'm very curious to see this character. 

Chiyonoumi I don't really know about. 

I'm very happy to see Ura's cherry blossom mawashi and his skills again. Same as Jokoryu as I've heard much about yet never seen him. 

No shin-juryo folks and was a little disappointed but not surprised by Naya's non-promotion. I hope he does not feel disheartened and make a more decisive case next basho. 

Looks like I have to pay attention to Juryo a lot more now... 

Takagenji was a good looking prospect a year ago.  Then, he stopped improving and got stuck in Juryo.  I don't expect much from him in the next basho,  KK would be a good result.  He would make a decent Juryo rikishi, occasionally visiting Makuuchi.

Jokoryu and Chiyonoumi will go back and forth between Juryo and Makushita.   If Ura is fully healed, he will make it back to Makuuchi.  He will yo-yo up and down the Makuuchi and Juryo divisions.  

My 2 cents.

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44 minutes ago, pricklypomegranate said:

Knowing Takagenji's dark past, I feel pretty indifferent about his re-promotion but I hope his brother's recent win will cheer him up a little.

I wasn't aware Takagenji had a dark past.

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1 hour ago, Gurowake said:

So I guess the difference in rank between Chiyonoumi and Naya was just too great to justify promoting the one who won their match in Juryo.  Or they just changed their mind about that criteria, which happens often.

Also very glad to only see 4 names on that list.

I guess I'll go update the above then... Chiyonoumi did have a win in Juryo earlier in the basho. Did that help? It was against Oki though.

EDIT: Or I'll just do it here. I had originally thought that Naya was a lock based on recent trends, but I started to have doubts and labelled him as a o? on Day 15.

Edited by Sakura
brain not functioning

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1 hour ago, Iwayama said:

I wasn't aware Takagenji had a dark past.

It’s quite a long story spread over several older threads here (some eaten by the software) but Takagenji and his twin were in Takanohanas stable. Takanohana was in the middle of trying to seriously disrupt the old guard in the kyokai on the heels of Harumafuji attacking Takanoiwa (his other Deshi ). He had a lot of outside support and one of his main talking points was eliminating behind the scenes violence and being more open about heya happenings. However it came out that Takagenji and his twin were hazing and being really not nice to other heyamates. This caused Takanohanas efforts to implode and he retired from the kyokai. I think some additional stuff happened with Takanoiwa too. 

After that Takagenji s twin beat people a couple of times (getting chances to correct his behavior) and was essentially expelled but not before hiring a lawyer and threatening to sue for reinstatement. So Takagenji was left by himself and fell pretty hard down the banzuke after all this stuff with his twin. Many people just think it’s a matter of time before he gets involved with something again as well.

i guess the silver lining of COVID happening has swept this sour story out of our recent memory.

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Here's a guess at the November Makushita joi: Daishoho, Naya, Kotodaigo, Kitaharima, Shiraishi, Terasawa, Yago, Bushozan, Chiyoarashi, Kotokuzan. Would love to hear others' thoughts.

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26 minutes ago, Tsuchinoninjin said:

It’s quite a long story spread over several older threads here (some eaten by the software) but Takagenji and his twin were in Takanohanas stable. Takanohana was in the middle of trying to seriously disrupt the old guard in the kyokai on the heels of Harumafuji attacking Takanoiwa (his other Deshi ). He had a lot of outside support and one of his main talking points was eliminating behind the scenes violence and being more open about heya happenings. However it came out that Takagenji and his twin were hazing and being really not nice to other heyamates. This caused Takanohanas efforts to implode and he retired from the kyokai. I think some additional stuff happened with Takanoiwa too. 

After that Takagenji s twin beat people a couple of times (getting chances to correct his behavior) and was essentially expelled but not before hiring a lawyer and threatening to sue for reinstatement. So Takagenji was left by himself and fell pretty hard down the banzuke after all this stuff with his twin. Many people just think it’s a matter of time before he gets involved with something again as well.

i guess the silver lining of COVID happening has swept this sour story out of our recent memory.

I thought it was more a reference to his lack of manners on the dohyo just as much as the above.

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42 minutes ago, Gurowake said:

I thought it was more a reference to his lack of manners on the dohyo just as much as the above.

Have they actually improved since the change of stable?

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1 hour ago, Reonito said:

Here's a guess at the November Makushita joi: Daishoho, Naya, Kotodaigo, Kitaharima, Shiraishi, Terasawa, Yago, Bushozan, Chiyoarashi, Kotokuzan. Would love to hear others' thoughts.

I don't have a prediction, but I am interested in the exact placement of Shiraishi

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