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Yubinhaad

Rikishi Status - 2020 Aki Basho

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1 hour ago, Seiyashi said:

At least Kiribayama has a very reasonable record to date, unlike Kotoshogiku or Ishiura. Even one more win will maintain his position for the next basho, and 2 will even see him move up.

I know where you're coming from, but I don't know that I'd bracket the two of them. While Ishiura looked awful today, I'd at least say he has a chance at getting the (4? 5?) wins required to stay in the division or at least limit his drop with some of the sumo he's displayed, and can understand why he entered.

I think Kotoshogiku may look at this as: if he's going to be relegated to Juryo either way, and longstanding precedent would suggest as a former Ozeki then go intai (Terunofuji excepted), he'd rather go out on the dohyo than on the sidelines.

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30 minutes ago, themistyseas said:

I know where you're coming from, but I don't know that I'd bracket the two of them. While Ishiura looked awful today, I'd at least say he has a chance at getting the (4? 5?) wins required to stay in the division or at least limit his drop with some of the sumo he's displayed, and can understand why he entered.

I think Kotoshogiku may look at this as: if he's going to be relegated to Juryo either way, and longstanding precedent would suggest as a former Ozeki then go intai (Terunofuji excepted), he'd rather go out on the dohyo than on the sidelines.

Yeah, that's for sure. I mean, Kiribayama has the "luxury" of choice here - he can afford not to come back, since even a 6-9 will leave him upwards of M10, whereas for Ishiura and Kotoshogiku, if they don't come back at all, it's almost certainly juryo for them. And for Kotoshogiku, he might not want to go to juryo for reasons of pride, so it's additionally intai. Whether any of them actually can get wins based on their condition is a different matter altogether - as you said, Ishiura has a chance, Kotoshogiku either wins it from the tachiai or not at all, and we'll just have to see what state Kiribayama is in tomorrow.

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1 hour ago, Seiyashi said:

Yeah, that's for sure. I mean, Kiribayama has the "luxury" of choice here - he can afford not to come back, since even a 6-9 will leave him upwards of M10, whereas for Ishiura and Kotoshogiku, if they don't come back at all, it's almost certainly juryo for them. And for Kotoshogiku, he might not want to go to juryo for reasons of pride, so it's additionally intai. Whether any of them actually can get wins based on their condition is a different matter altogether - as you said, Ishiura has a chance, Kotoshogiku either wins it from the tachiai or not at all, and we'll just have to see what state Kiribayama is in tomorrow.

Fully agree. Kotoshogiku put up a better fight today than I expected, but it wouldn't surprise me to see him eke out zero or one more win. I'm fully expecting an intai announcement after the basho (could also see a scenario where we get one before the end if he does get a final win). It's a subtle thing but in the last tournament and start of this tournament he had changed the angle of his tachiai, which after his return from kyujo here has been abandoned. That's part of what makes me think he's just playing this out to enjoy his last days. Also the fact that there's no hometown basho for him in front of his home fans in November this year.

I should recant what I said above at least to some extent about Ishiura. He probably isn't safe from demotion even by winning out, but 4-5 wins would land him much nearer the top of a pretty underwhelming Juryo slate with a very good shot to bounce back. Just the two puts him in need of a strong tournament next time out. IMHO If he can beat Hoshoryu into make-koshi territory tomorrow, the return from kyujo was probably worth it.

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The final round of lower division action sees one withdrawal and four late entries to the basho. Kiritsubasa won his last bout to secure his kachi-koshi but reportedly suffered some sort of leg injury in the process, and had to be taken away in the wheelchair.


Withdrawing:

Sd62e Kiritsubasa

Entering:

Jd28w Wakaryusei - goes up to Sandanme to fight 0-6 Kotomanabe on Day 13

Jk19w Dewaazuma - fights 0-6 Asashorei on Day 13

Jk21w Daigonishiki - fights 0-6 Hattorizakura on Day 13 for the second consecutive basho

Jk26e Chiyotaiko

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10 hours ago, themistyseas said:

Fully agree. Kotoshogiku put up a better fight today than I expected, but it wouldn't surprise me to see him eke out zero or one more win. I'm fully expecting an intai announcement after the basho (could also see a scenario where we get one before the end if he does get a final win). It's a subtle thing but in the last tournament and start of this tournament he had changed the angle of his tachiai, which after his return from kyujo here has been abandoned. That's part of what makes me think he's just playing this out to enjoy his last days. Also the fact that there's no hometown basho for him in front of his home fans in November this year.

I'm still hoping that we get to see the "big stretch" one more time as a farewell gesture. Would be interesting to see how well the "no cheering" ban survives that one. The coverage will probably be able to pick up me going bonkers in England.

Edited by Tigerboy1966
rephrase
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And now Chiyotairyu is out. That makes him make-koshi. Tokushoryu will get the freebie to improve to 6-7.

Edited by Reonito
added info

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Press reporting Terunofuji is also kyujo from Day 13, giving Wakatakakage a fusensho.

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3 hours ago, Tigerboy1966 said:
14 hours ago, themistyseas said:

Fully agree. Kotoshogiku put up a better fight today than I expected, but it wouldn't surprise me to see him eke out zero or one more win. I'm fully expecting an intai announcement after the basho (could also see a scenario where we get one before the end if he does get a final win). It's a subtle thing but in the last tournament and start of this tournament he had changed the angle of his tachiai, which after his return from kyujo here has been abandoned. That's part of what makes me think he's just playing this out to enjoy his last days. Also the fact that there's no hometown basho for him in front of his home fans in November this year.

I'm still hoping that we get to see the "big stretch" one more time as a farewell gesture. Would be interesting to see how well the "no cheering" ban survives that one. The coverage will probably be able to pick up me going bonkers in England.

If he does this on day 15, you know for sure intai is around the corner. It'll be a great way to go out though.

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48 minutes ago, Yubinhaad said:

Press reporting Terunofuji is also kyujo from Day 13, giving Wakatakakage a fusensho.

The kyujo is not yet officially listed on the NSK site, but if true, Terunofuji has finally learned the valuable lesson that if you have nothing to gain or lose, don't fight.  Fighting to the bitter end of every basho probably cost him his ozeki rank and started his precipitous drop.

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37 minutes ago, Asojima said:

The kyujo is not yet officially listed on the NSK site, but if true, Terunofuji has finally learned the valuable lesson that if you have nothing to gain or lose, don't fight.  Fighting to the bitter end of every basho probably cost him his ozeki rank and started his precipitous drop.

It's official now.

http://www.sumo.or.jp/EnHonbashoMain/absence/

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55 minutes ago, Asojima said:

Terunofuji has finally learned the valuable lesson that if you have nothing to gain or lose, don't fight.

Is his san'yaku promotion certain at 8-5-2? I know it's unlikely, but what if Daieisho wins out, leaving only one open slot, and Takanosho picks up 2 or 3 more wins?

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8-7 M1e has always gotten preference because a KK rikishi effectively always must be promoted, unless there's major restructuring to the ranks occurring.

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1 minute ago, Reonito said:

Is his san'yaku promotion certain at 8-5-2? I know it's unlikely, but what if Daieisho wins out, leaving only one open slot, and Takanosho picks up 2 or 3 more wins?

Certainly an interesting question. The last time an M1e with 8 wins didn't get promoted was 1969, but we probably don't have an exact precedent.

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7 minutes ago, Sakura said:

Certainly an interesting question. The last time an M1e with 8 wins didn't get promoted was 1969, but we probably don't have an exact precedent.

I guess we know that a 9-6 M1w can be merely moved over to M1e (in fact, that's exactly what happened the last 3 times the situation occurred). And no M1w with double-digit wins has failed to be promoted to san'yaku, so presumably they'd just create an extra komusubi slot if necessary.

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We can say though that there have been 7-8 sekiwake who found themselves at M1E, the last time this happened was 1992 and it was Akinoshima. Right before him however Takatoriki went 7-8 at sekiwake and got demoted to M2.

http://sumodb.sumogames.de/Query.aspx?show_form=0&form1_rank=S&form1_wins=7&form1_m=on&form2_rank=M&form2_m=on

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13 minutes ago, sahaven111 said:

Why exactly is Terunofuji kyujo? he is a very fragile rikishi, so this has me worried.

Both komusubi (and one sekiwake) are in the toilet.  No matter what happened in the final days of the basho, Terunofuji will end up as a komusubi.  Why risk further injury? Smart move.

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6 minutes ago, Asojima said:

Both komusubi (and one sekiwake) are in the toilet.  No matter what happened in the final days of the basho, Terunofuji will end up as a komusubi.  Why risk further injury? Smart move.

Exactly this. Terunofuji is looking to be the blueprint for how to properly extend a career is ozumo.

With the sumo he's being doing he'll climb back to the highest rank/s eventually. His last few years would have taught him the value of patience.

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30 minutes ago, sahaven111 said:

Why exactly is Terunofuji kyujo? he is a very fragile rikishi, so this has me worried.

He's banged up enough, like Hakuho, that you can always find something MC-worthy with his body.

In related news, Chiyotairyu is also kyujo. Some kind of inflammation on the left and injury with the right foot.

https://news.yahoo.co.jp/articles/a044c158f3513f9f1f54561170e6a25a50a1e698

Edited by Seiyashi

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7 minutes ago, Houmanumi said:

Exactly this. Terunofuji is looking to be the blueprint for how to properly extend a career is ozumo.

With the sumo he's being doing he'll climb back to the highest rank/s eventually. His last few years would have taught him the value of patience.

This Terunofuji decision to go kyujo is really smart indeed and in the future i would love to see more rikishi do kyujo for health, the long run is way more worth it and certain.

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5 minutes ago, Joaoiyama said:
21 minutes ago, Houmanumi said:

Exactly this. Terunofuji is looking to be the blueprint for how to properly extend a career is ozumo.

With the sumo he's being doing he'll climb back to the highest rank/s eventually. His last few years would have taught him the value of patience.

This Terunofuji decision to go kyujo is really smart indeed and in the future i would love to see more rikishi do kyujo for health, the long run is way more worth it and certain.

While it's a good thing for individual rikishi, I don't see the NSK/YDC being too happy about this development though. What kind of a basho would it be if half the top division, with KK, dropped out to preserve their health? 

That said, if more people do this, it might just force them to actually rethink their current (non-existent) stance on rikishi health and injury. But in the meantime, expect a firestorm or two. 

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Just now, Seiyashi said:

While it's a good thing for individual rikishi, I don't see the NSK/YDC being too happy about this development though. What kind of a basho would it be if half the top division, with KK, dropped out to preserve their health? 

That said, if more people do this, it might just force them to actually rethink their current (non-existent) stance on rikishi health and injury. But in the meantime, expect a firestorm or two. 

If rikishi do nothing about how their health is being trated by the NSK/YDC then nothing will be done for them, something has to spark the fire.

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1 hour ago, Kintamayama said:

Terunofuji's injury- Gonarthrosis-left knee.

Terunofuji like a worn-out yokozuna has enough chronic injuries to present to the medicals to go kyujo any day he likes. He may make it back to ozeki like this, but no way he makes it to yokozuna: his body won't hold for 2 yusho in a row.

By showing that he'll likely go kyujo often, the bar for re-promotion to ozeki will be raised as well.

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On 22/09/2020 at 05:08, Asojima said:

Anyone want to do the average number of makuuchi kuyjos per each of the 6 basho for say the last 10 years?  I suspect that Aki may top the list.

If I count correctly, 11 wrestlers have already missed at least one bout. It's almost 25% of the Makuuchi :-O
It leaves you wondering, because with the Covid, tournaments are less frequent, whereas it was often thought that exhibition tournaments, in particular, encouraged injuries by multiplying the fights...

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