rzombie1988

Something needs to be done about part-time Yokozuna's

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12 minutes ago, rzombie1988 said:

Kakuryu and Hakuho out again this basho. Between the two of them, they have completed 3 total bashos in the last year.

For what it's worth, Michinoku is already using "compete or die" type language in reference to Kakuryu's performance at November.

Hakuho still has some leeway, considering he won in March when he last completed, and withdrew in July only on pain of serious injury. 

Beyond that, nothing changes the old conclusion that as fans we each have different standards of what "competing at the peak of the sport" means.

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Kakuryu out again. That'll be only one full basho completed this year and only 4 completed bashos in 2 years.

Hakuho is still undecided with 3 days to go which doesn't sound good. If he doesn't make it, that'll be only one full basho completed this year.

Edited by rzombie1988

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Yessir, this is all getting a bit tedious, although a wide open field arguably makes for a more exciting competition. As much as I wish it wasn’t so, the allure of these legends is rubbing off a bit as their careers get dragged out like this, IMHO. 

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I think the focus here is in the wrong place

It's all well and good saying that the Yokozuna are somehow devaluing the competition or the rank

But the reality is that they continue not to be there and continually those in a position to challenge for their rank refuse to rise to the challenge

If they both walked away from the sport tomorrow, it wouldn't change anything in terms of the timeline to getting a new Yokozuna. So with that being the case, I'm happy for whenever we get to see Hakuho again. As he rightly pointed out at the joint training, when he is able to compete on the dohyo, his numbers are still as good as anyone's.

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3 hours ago, themistyseas said:

I think the focus here is in the wrong place

It's all well and good saying that the Yokozuna are somehow devaluing the competition or the rank

But the reality is that they continue not to be there and continually those in a position to challenge for their rank refuse to rise to the challenge

If they both walked away from the sport tomorrow, it wouldn't change anything in terms of the timeline to getting a new Yokozuna. So with that being the case, I'm happy for whenever we get to see Hakuho again. As he rightly pointed out at the joint training, when he is able to compete on the dohyo, his numbers are still as good as anyone's.

Agreed. In fact, pointing out that if you remove the yokozuna, nothing changes for the sanyaku in terms of their promotion prospects is perhaps the most obvious way to show that they aren't an obstacle to the next yokozuna.

We got unlucky with our last yokozuna and ozeki promotions, as Kisenosato got terminally injured, Goeido was fading out, Takayasu had a bad streak of injuries and Tochinoshin only had enough left in the tank to get there but not stay there.

Takakeisho is limited by style and injury, even though he's probably the best yokozuna candidate of the three in terms of the mental game. Asanoyama and Shodai are probably more realistic prospects, although oddly I rate Shodai more likely to get to yokozuna before Asanoyama.

It's probably unlucky that both (foreign) yokozuna are seeking to extend their careers for non-results-related reasons, with no imminent replacement (Asanoyama having fizzled out a bit), and so the spotlight gets put on both of them at the same time. Kisenosato got nowhere near this amount and intensity of flak until the very end since Hakuho and Kakuryu could still cover for him - of course, the fact that he was the first Japanese yokozuna in a long time probably had something to do with it too.

Edited by Seiyashi
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They will soon disappear.  In the meantime, someone will eventually mature enough to warrant a yokozuna rank.  The only effect that Haku and Kaku's presence has is that one or two potential makuuchi remain in juryo for each basho.  For now, their continued presence is meaningless unless Hakuho regains his health.  Kakuryu can continue treading water until he gains his citizenship.

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3 hours ago, Seiyashi said:

Takayasu had a bad steak of injuries

That does sound bad. I'd rather have a sirloin, personally.

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12 minutes ago, just_some_guy said:

That does sound bad. I'd rather have a sirloin, personally.

Can't add a react, but take a laugh! Fixed.

Edited by Seiyashi

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3 hours ago, Seiyashi said:

It's probably unlucky that both (foreign) yokozuna are seeking to extend their careers for non-results-related reasons, with no imminent replacement (Asanoyama having fizzled out a bit), and so the spotlight gets put on both of them at the same time. Kisenosato got nowhere near this amount and intensity of flak until the very end since Hakuho and Kakuryu could still cover for him - of course, the fact that he was the first Japanese yokozuna in a long time probably had something to do with it too.

I have to disagree with the one part of your statement. A 12-3 debut followed by a 10-5 is hardly what I would call fizzling out. No one can expect anybody to be the next Taiho, Kitanoumi or Hakuho. And there are those who sat at the ozeki rank a while before eventually making it to the top. When he starts turning in Miyabiyama type performances, then I would start getting worried.

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Just now, WAKATAKE said:

I have to disagree with the one part of your statement. A 12-3 debut followed by a 10-5 is hardly what I would call fizzling out. No one can expect anybody to be the next Taiho, Kitanoumi or Hakuho. And there are those who sat at the ozeki rank a while before eventually making it to the top. When he starts turning in Miyabiyama type performances, then I would start getting worried.

Granted. Fizzed is probably a bit strong although compared to the expectations surrounding him (and which he's put on himself), those two performances aren't stellar. More worrying than the numbers is the manner in which he dropped his first three bouts last basho, IMO. He might have some way to go to fix his mental game.

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2 minutes ago, Seiyashi said:

Granted. Fizzed is probably a bit strong although compared to the expectations surrounding him (and which he's put on himself), those two performances aren't stellar. More worrying than the numbers is the manner in which he dropped his first three bouts last basho, IMO. He might have some way to go to fix his mental game.

That is true and also a reflection of our latest Japanese yokozuna. The man would be on fire but he could "fizzle" right in the home stretch. The number of times he would be ahead in the basho yet lose out to Hakuho or somebody else is up there too.

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2 minutes ago, WAKATAKE said:

That is true and also a reflection of our latest Japanese yokozuna. The man would be on fire but he could "fizzle" right in the home stretch. The number of times he would be ahead in the basho yet lose out to Hakuho or somebody else is up there too.

Yes, I think the worst thing that could happen right now is if Asanoyama becomes Kisenosato Mk II - great technical sumo, chokes like hell - especially after both current yokozuna retires. In a sense it's lucky that Shodai has stepped up to be another yokozuna potentiate, because Takakeisho has the head game but not necessarily the sumo or bodily health, and Asanoyama may not have the right head game until a while.

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20 minutes ago, Seiyashi said:

Yes, I think the worst thing that could happen right now is if Asanoyama becomes Kisenosato Mk II - great technical sumo, chokes like hell - especially after both current yokozuna retires. In a sense it's lucky that Shodai has stepped up to be another yokozuna potentiate, because Takakeisho has the head game but not necessarily the sumo or bodily health, and Asanoyama may not have the right head game until a while.

We could be looking at Shodai being a Musashimaru type, surging late while remaining relatively injury free from his rise to the top. Musashi had his ups and downs, but consistently KK'd. And did not miss a career bout until he made yokozuna, even after getting up there almost broke a kachi-koshi record that was set by Kitanoumi.

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9 minutes ago, WAKATAKE said:

but consistently KK'd

Yeah, from Maezumo to Yokozuna: 60 KK, 1 MK (at Ms11 in his 6th basho).  And in his sekitori basho, he only went 8-7 five times out of 51 up to his injury.

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26 minutes ago, Yamanashi said:

Yeah, from Maezumo to Yokozuna: 60 KK, 1 MK (at Ms11 in his 6th basho).  And in his sekitori basho, he only went 8-7 five times out of 51 up to his injury.

AND, he was terribly underrated at the time.

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40 minutes ago, rzombie1988 said:

Hakuho is officially out for the November 2020 Basho.

Not without some questions being raised over Miyagino's choice of language. More details brought to you by Kintamayama in the Preparations thread.

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This situation is a great chance for someone to make a Yokozuna run! Can someone clarify something for me - if Shodai wins the yusho now again, will he be promoted to Yokozuna or he needs two consecutive yusho's as ozeki?

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2 minutes ago, botev1921 said:

This situation is a great chance for someone to make a Yokozuna run! Can someone clarify something for me - if Shodai wins the yusho now again, will he be promoted to Yokozuna or he needs two consecutive yusho's as ozeki?

Two as ozeki. 

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