Kintamayama

September (Aki) Basho- offical thread (yay..)

Recommended Posts

I will have to respectfully disagree with those who believe Takakeisho's only hope of sneaking into promotion to sumo's highest rank is with both Yokozuna sidelined, and that he is basically a one-dimensional overachiever. 

I see it the other way. An Ozeki easily talented enough to make it but who has been sidetracked recently by injuries. 

A healthy Takakeisho eventually achieves sumo's highest rank--whether or not there are Yokozuna present. 

 

  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 minutes ago, Kaninoyama said:

I will have to respectfully disagree with those who believe Takakeisho's only hope of sneaking into promotion to sumo's highest rank is with both Yokozuna sidelined, and that he is basically a one-dimensional overachiever. 

I see it the other way. An Ozeki easily talented enough to make it but who has been sidetracked recently by injuries. 

A healthy Takakeisho eventually achieves sumo's highest rank--whether or not there are Yokozuna present. 

 

It’s a meaningless argument anyway. You become Yokozuna by being better than your peers. If your peers no longer include a couple of aging Yokozuna, it doesn’t matter if they weren’t around. It’s like arguing Hakuho’s records don’t mean much because he rarely, if ever, had to fight anyone better than him. He had an easy ride by always fighting guys lower down the banzuke.

  • Like 5
  • Haha 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
10 minutes ago, Eikokurai said:

It’s a meaningless argument anyway. You become Yokozuna by being better than your peers. If your peers no longer include a couple of aging Yokozuna, it doesn’t matter if they weren’t around. It’s like arguing Hakuho’s records don’t mean much because he rarely, if ever, had to fight anyone better than him. He had an easy ride by always fighting guys lower down the banzuke.

Yes, I agree. It's interesting to put Hakuho up against TakaWakaAkebonofuji, but that's merely for fun.  In spite of the eternal nature of Sumo, the externals have changed – rikishi and the society around them have changed.  Even training methods have changed.  That's also part of the fun.  But you are Yokozuna because you consistently frustrate the ambitions of the Sanyaku.  You get to be Ozeki because even if you don't often win Yusho you consistently perform at a high level.  Everyone else is trying to get to Sekiwake and take their shot.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Kaninoyama said:

I will have to respectfully disagree with those who believe Takakeisho's only hope of sneaking into promotion to sumo's highest rank is with both Yokozuna sidelined, and that he is basically a one-dimensional overachiever. 

I see it the other way. An Ozeki easily talented enough to make it but who has been sidetracked recently by injuries. 

A healthy Takakeisho eventually achieves sumo's highest rank--whether or not there are Yokozuna present. 

 

If that's in response to my post that's certainly not what I meant (but I see how it came off that way).

I'm a big fan of his - and a big part of that is because he overachieves. He's smaller, not as well-rounded, but his heart/mental game make him unstoppable and he puts the work in. I'll never stop admiring him for that and I certainly hope he gets it.

100% agreed on the final sentence too. Healthy, peak Takakeisho was looking like the strongest competitor in the division, Yokozuna included.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Eikokurai said:

It’s a meaningless argument anyway. You become Yokozuna by being better than your peers. If your peers no longer include a couple of aging Yokozuna, it doesn’t matter if they weren’t around. It’s like arguing Hakuho’s records don’t mean much because he rarely, if ever, had to fight anyone better than him. He had an easy ride by always fighting guys lower down the banzuke.

I already reacted, but I agree with and appreciate this post so much that I also needed to quote and recognise it here. Well said.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
40 minutes ago, Houmanumi said:

If that's in response to my post that's certainly not what I meant (but I see how it came off that way).

I'm a big fan of his - and a big part of that is because he overachieves. He's smaller, not as well-rounded, but his heart/mental game make him unstoppable and he puts the work in. I'll never stop admiring him for that and I certainly hope he gets it.

100% agreed on the final sentence too. Healthy, peak Takakeisho was looking like the strongest competitor in the division, Yokozuna included.

Wasn't in response to your post specifically. Just the overall narrative about Takakeisho that has been ongoing since his name was still Sato. He was a child sumo prodigy, and has won at every level. He's not where he is by accident. 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
9 minutes ago, Houmanumi said:

Looks like Kotoshogiku will be kyujo from today, giving Chiyotairyu the fusen win.

Relevant story: https://news.yahoo.co.jp/articles/bc8b2df93f2199ee643718889f52dd982439ab5c

Quoting myself may seem odd but it just hit me, barring a successful comeback this basho he'll certainly drop to Juryo. Have we seen the last of the Geek? 

Damn shame if so. He's a sentimental favourite of mine and I imagine to many here.

  • Like 1
  • Sad 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The extra weight is looking good on  Takakeisho. Shodia and Mita looking on the verge of Ozeki again. The top getting depleted of the old guard its their time. Terusuyoshi my favorite lil guy can do it all with attitude to boot. Terinofuji, Asonoyama, Hoktofuji disappointing so far. Really sone great matches. Akiseyama wins a barn burner and 2:0 as is Chionukuni. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
59 minutes ago, Houmanumi said:

Quoting myself may seem odd but it just hit me, barring a successful comeback this basho he'll certainly drop to Juryo. Have we seen the last of the Geek? 

Damn shame if so. He's a sentimental favourite of mine and I imagine to many here.

He's underappreciated. He broke the 10-year dry spell of a Japanese-born yusho, which for a time was akin to the 4-minute mile barrier. After he did it others followed, but someone had to be the first, and he was the one who stepped up and got the job done. 

I hope we haven't seen the last of him just yet.

 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
52 minutes ago, Kaninoyama said:

He's underappreciated. He broke the 10-year dry spell of a Japanese-born yusho, which for a time was akin to the 4-minute mile barrier. After he did it others followed, but someone had to be the first, and he was the one who stepped up and got the job done. 

I hope we haven't seen the last of him just yet.

 

Or, for a rikishi, the 4-minute 100m dash.

  • Like 1
  • Haha 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 hours ago, Jakusotsu said:

It certainly wasn't Akebono's zone of comfort, but then again, he was the epitome of humongous.

Of course his best weapon was his thrusting. But his yotsu-zumo improved over the years, and in the end yorikiri was his most common winning kimarite as a yokozuna.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hokutofuji off to a rough start. No shame in losing to either of the guys he’s faced so far, but if he is going to reach his potential then he’s got to start winning these matches. I still think he’ll pull out a KK like he so often does with a strong second week. But I’d really like to see him consistently staying up in the ranks and joining our next Ozeki speculations. 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

So the real test for Takakeisho will be to see if he still remains helpless if someone manages to grab a hold of his belt. I was quite excited for his sukuinage against Mitakeumi a while back, because it signalled that he's capable of more than just oshidashi. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 hours ago, Eikokurai said:
5 hours ago, Kaninoyama said:

I will have to respectfully disagree with those who believe Takakeisho's only hope of sneaking into promotion to sumo's highest rank is with both Yokozuna sidelined, and that he is basically a one-dimensional overachiever. 

I see it the other way. An Ozeki easily talented enough to make it but who has been sidetracked recently by injuries. 

A healthy Takakeisho eventually achieves sumo's highest rank--whether or not there are Yokozuna present. 

 

It’s a meaningless argument anyway. You become Yokozuna by being better than your peers. If your peers no longer include a couple of aging Yokozuna, it doesn’t matter if they weren’t around. It’s like arguing Hakuho’s records don’t mean much because he rarely, if ever, had to fight anyone better than him. He had an easy ride by always fighting guys lower down the banzuke.

I sort of meant to say that with his sanyaku rivals preoccupied with their own thoughts of promotion and with the yokozuna out, he pretty much looks like the best performer on that end of the banzuke with no pressure on him externally to make it. It's true that if the yokozuna aren't up to scratch, they don't matter anyway. But all in, now is his best chance of making it because the stars are all aligned for him right now; give him a bit more and injuries, rivalries, etc will make it a lot harder than it needs to be right now. A lot of luck factors into promotions that we don't see.

In terms of dimensionality, you'll have to give him credit for trying some degree of yotsu (like his sukuinage against Mitakeumi), but it's interesting that his oshi gets run down where arguably Asanoyama and Daieisho are pretty much as one-dimensional and/or predictable in their sumo. It might be just bias against oshi as the simple type of sumo, but again on the other hand the fact that Takakeisho has made it this far with just that sumo means in his hands, it's not a weapon to be underestimated. But it's also super dependent on his ability to generate force, which his injuries have shown that it's super vulnerable  when injured.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
43 minutes ago, Katsunorifuji said:

Hokutofuji off to a rough start. No shame in losing to either of the guys he’s faced so far, but if he is going to reach his potential then he’s got to start winning these matches. I still think he’ll pull out a KK like he so often does with a strong second week. But I’d really like to see him consistently staying up in the ranks and joining our next Ozeki speculations. 

The thing about Hokutofuji is that he's capable of beating anyone at any time. He just needs a bit more consistency to join the upper echelon of Ozeki hopefuls.

it would be nice if he could pull a Shodai and take that next step. 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, Kashunowaka said:

Of course his best weapon was his thrusting. But his yotsu-zumo improved over the years, and in the end yorikiri was his most common winning kimarite as a yokozuna.

Yup, and the same applies to Musashimaru who hat to adjust his style after the wrist injury (as seen in the NHK pre-basho feature linked by John). So there's still hope for Takakeisho. ;-)

Edited by Jakusotsu
NHK, not NSK - same trap as usual

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

If Geek is not wanting to fall to Juryo for the first time in 15 years, I imagine that he is going to try to come back to preserve his rank. My guess at his rank is that he'll need at least 4 wins, 5 would guarantee his stay. However at what cost? If he were to fall to juryo and decide to continue competing, he would be the second of the current ex-ozeki corps to compete in juryo after losing his ozeki rank.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Looks to me as though our intense, deep-squatting gyoji, Kimura Konosuke, may be back in action today.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

That may be a gaijin fan showing the bottom of his feet to the rikishi.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The word on Kotoshogiku is a torn left calf muscle. Two weeks required for recovery. If that's the case, we won't be seeing him back this basho. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
21 minutes ago, Amamaniac said:

Looks to me as though our intense, deep-squatting gyoji, Kimura Konosuke, may be back in action today.

It would appear he had a stern talk with Akua about Te Wo Tsuite, resulting in better behavior and a win today for Akuaman.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Just now, Kaninoyama said:

The word on Kotoshogiku is a torn left calf muscle. Two weeks required for recovery. If that's the case, we won't be seeing him back this basho. 

And thus, possibly never again. Juryo is now in his immediate future and one wonders if he has the will to continue. He certainly has no need to because he has his kabu lined up (I think? Too lazy to double checks.) But then many of us thought he’d call it a day after his Ozeki demotion and he didn’t.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The condition to have Takakeisho make it to yokozuna mentioned here is always "if he's healthy". He showed that he is injured easily, and that mainly because of his limited style of sumo. For him the same as I said about Osunaarashi early in his career: he has too many injuries already. He may be versatile enough to develop his sumo so that it includes a belt game, a slim chance thus remains.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now