Kintamayama

September (Aki) Basho- offical thread (yay..)

Recommended Posts

33 minutes ago, Yokozuna Hattorizakura said:

Perhaps he meant he doesn't want to deal with all extra-curricular responsibilities that ozeki has to deal with. he does strike me as somewhat of a lazy guy.

Do they really get that much more work? Yokozuna do, with all their dohyo-irk stuff, but an Ozeki?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

For what it's worth this is now the race for the most wins in Makuuchi in 2020. Even remembering that we only have 75 wins maximum instead of the usual 90, that's pretty low.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
48 minutes ago, pricklypomegranate said:
3 hours ago, Katsunorifuji said:

Enho is still pretty early in his career so it’s hard to generalize yet, but I’m getting the feeling we are seeing where his career will play out. The guys in the joi are simply big enough and fast enough that Enho can’t win consistently at his size. But he’s fast enough that those in the lower maegashira ranks can’t beat him consistently. Perhaps this is is sweet spot, a really good wrestler who hangs out in the upper single digit ranks with the occasional jump into joi and the occasionally slip to the higher double digits. But he’s a man of surprise so don’t quote me to that prediction.

Time to open Pandora's box. Is Enho the latter-day Mainoumi or is he not or is he something different? Mainoumi made it to Komusubi (though did not occupy the rank successfully). 

In my opinion, although Enho is a very talented rikishi and a wonderful catch for Hakuho, his talent and innovativeness falls short of Mainoumi. However, I feel Enho has more tenacity. If Enho uses his full potential (and gains just a smidge more weight) he could briefly be a sekiwake and more successfully a komusubi. But I think realistically, he might make it to upper joi (M1 - M3). I hope to be wrong. Additionally, I feel that Enho has more motivation to be a sanyaku member - with the new regulations of kabu creation and a kabu title practically reserved for him (No other candidates in the heya or ichimon that I can think of). I suspect his career will be a short one, whether by injury or just leaving once the kabu title is ready and he is ready to assume it. 

*To be fair, I have never watch Mainoumi extensively, and I am quite unsure of somewhat opaque kabu rules. 

I'll just add on my 2 cents which doesn't seem to have been covered so far:

- Everyone speaks of "figuring out Enho", but the inverse is also possible - it is also doable for Enho to figure his opponents out and develop battle plans against them. Admittedly it is a lot tougher than it would be. It requires executing and thinking about battle plans on the dohyo whereas most other rikishi can go by instinct and reaction, but barring a bag of tricks like Kiribayama or Hakuho, most rikishi in the top division can be overwhelmingly said to prefer a certain "style" of sumo.

- Comparisons with Mainoumi don't tend to mention the leg injury (fracture) that he suffered that really took the edge off his later career. Enho probably came the closest to injury this basho than he ever has with the number of crushouts he has had. His sumo needs to be a lot smarter to avoid this.

The upshot is that Enho needs to engage quite a high level of technical and thinking sumo - a bit like Terutsuyoshi's ashitori against Asanoyama - to be successful in the top division, and not just bounce off fronts like he's been doing this basho. I'll say again, I don't think this is the basho to say he's been figured out because he was doing relatively dumb sumo at least for the first half, but I won't rule it out that if his sumo stays stale, he'll start dropping down the rankings.

Regarding the kabu rules, Isegahama ichimon it is true has a very short list of oyakata candidates, and an even shorter list of available kabu. But there may be some slots opening up via retirement soon. As far as I can tell, the kabu in the ichimon are as follows (number in brackets is age to retirement/consultancy):

- Asahiyama, ex Kotonishiki, (13/18)
- Asakayama, ex Kaio, (17/22)
- Isegahama, ex Asahifuji (5/10)
- Ajigawa, ex Aminishiki (23/28)
- Kiriyama, ex Kurosegawa (-4/1)
- Miyagino, ex Chikubayama (2/7)
- Takashima, ex Koboyama (2/7)
- Tomozuna, ex Kyokutenho (19/24)
- Oshima, ex Kaiki (-3, 2)
- Tamagaki, ex Tomonohana (9/14)

So the kabu slots that are going to be available soon are, in order, Kiriyama (Isegahama), Oshima (Tomozuna), Miyagino (Miyagino) and Takashima (Miyagino). There's the distinct possibility that, should Hakuho delay his retirement longer, Miyagino may stay as consultant at a renamed Hakuho-beya, so we're looking at maybe 3 kabu. 

In terms of sekitori, because of the eligibility criteria of citizenship, the probable suspects at this point are only Takarafuji and Kaisei - matching nicely to Kiriyama and Oshima. There are no other sekitori in the ichimon who match the criteria as I remember them - 20 tournaments in makuuchi or 30 in juryo - but if a stable takeover is involved (dropping the criteria to 12/20), then Kyokutaisei with almost 30 tournaments as sekitori may just do it too. Ishiura precedes Enho and Terutsuyoshi in terms of seniority and the race to reach the elder criteria, although by the time they hit it, Tamagaki and Isegahama may well be available as well. 

Assuming elder names stay within the ichimon, then yes, there's probably elder space for Enho if he can stick it. But do note that we are looking at a bit of a kabu crunch now. The only 2 free kabu are Kotoshogiku's Hidenoyama (which won't be free much longer) and Azumazeki's (ex Takamisakari) former Furiwake kabu. Shohozan won't have a kabu if he retires soon, and Toyonoshima needs to find one kabu within 5 years if, as is speculated, Kakuryu retires (as yokozuna, he can go by Kakuryu oyakata for 5 years, but needs a stock after that). And since kabu aren't sold at will any more, we're not sure what the rules on assigning elder names are anymore.

Edited by Seiyashi
  • Like 1
  • Thanks 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
21 minutes ago, Sakura said:

For what it's worth this is now the race for the most wins in Makuuchi in 2020. Even remembering that we only have 75 wins maximum instead of the usual 90, that's pretty low.

Considering Asanoyama won last year with 55 wins over 6 tournaments (9.16 wins per basho), 45 wins over 4 is a marked improvement of 11.25 so far. Without a healthy and dominant yokozuna racking up 10+ per basho, this is probably as good as it gets.

  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, WAKATAKE said:

First yusho for Tokitsukaze beya in 57 years and 6th overall. The last wrestler to win it was Kitabayama in Nagoya 1967. The previous four yusho were won by Yokozuna Kagamisato under the tutelage of Futabayama

This suprised me the most, considering the slew of Sekitori Tokitsukaze had over all these years. Off the top of my head pops up Toyonoshima who got the Jun-Yusho five times!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Delighted for Shodai; I'm not sure the reports of him being the 'negative rikishi' are entirely true but, if he has changed his mental approach then it's serving him well.

Personally, I'm enjoying this 'time of transition', every basho's like a Makuuchi Merry-go-round with its spinning ups and downs; I'm laughing one moment and feeling a bit sick the next; it's all winning peaks and joint crunching troughs.

Lots of concerns for Ikioi who looked awful in Juryo, just another recoverable injury or is his body calling time? Likewise Giku now that demotion beckons - time to hang up the mawashi for good? I wouldn't blame either of them.

Time to take a breath before November ...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Looks like we are going to need a new "next ozeki". And then two guys who will get there before him.

  • Like 2
  • Haha 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Seiyashi said:

I'll just add on my 2 cents which doesn't seem to have been covered so far:

- Everyone speaks of "figuring out Enho", but the inverse is also possible - it is also doable for Enho to figure his opponents out and develop battle plans against them. Admittedly it is a lot tougher than it would be. It requires executing and thinking about battle plans on the dohyo whereas most other rikishi can go by instinct and reaction, but barring a bag of tricks like Kiribayama or Hakuho, most rikishi in the top division can be overwhelmingly said to prefer a certain "style" of sumo.

- Comparisons with Mainoumi don't tend to mention the leg injury (fracture) that he suffered that really took the edge off his later career. Enho probably came the closest to injury this basho than he ever has with the number of crushouts he has had. His sumo needs to be a lot smarter to avoid this.

The upshot is that Enho needs to engage quite a high level of technical and thinking sumo - a bit like Terutsuyoshi's ashitori against Asanoyama - to be successful in the top division, and not just bounce off fronts like he's been doing this basho. I'll say again, I don't think this is the basho to say he's been figured out because he was doing relatively dumb sumo at least for the first half, but I won't rule it out that if his sumo stays stale, he'll start dropping down the rankings.

Regarding the kabu rules, Isegahama ichimon it is true has a very short list of oyakata candidates, and an even shorter list of available kabu. But there may be some slots opening up via retirement soon. As far as I can tell, the kabu in the ichimon are as follows (number in brackets is age to retirement/consultancy):

- Asahiyama, ex Kotonishiki, (13/18)
- Asakayama, ex Kaio, (17/22)
- Isegahama, ex Asahifuji (5/10)
- Ajigawa, ex Aminishiki (23/28)
- Kiriyama, ex Kurosegawa (-4/1)
- Miyagino, ex Chikubayama (2/7)
- Takashima, ex Koboyama (2/7)
- Tomozuna, ex Kyokutenho (19/24)
- Oshima, ex Kaiki (-3, 2)
- Tamagaki, ex Tomonohana (9/14)

So the kabu slots that are going to be available soon are, in order, Kiriyama (Isegahama), Oshima (Tomozuna), Miyagino (Miyagino) and Takashima (Miyagino). There's the distinct possibility that, should Hakuho delay his retirement longer, Miyagino may stay as consultant at a renamed Hakuho-beya, so we're looking at maybe 3 kabu. 

In terms of sekitori, because of the eligibility criteria of citizenship, the probable suspects at this point are only Takarafuji and Kaisei - matching nicely to Kiriyama and Oshima. There are no other sekitori in the ichimon who match the criteria as I remember them - 20 tournaments in makuuchi or 30 in juryo - but if a stable takeover is involved (dropping the criteria to 12/20), then Kyokutaisei with almost 30 tournaments as sekitori may just do it too. Ishiura precedes Enho and Terutsuyoshi in terms of seniority and the race to reach the elder criteria, although by the time they hit it, Tamagaki and Isegahama may well be available as well. 

Assuming elder names stay within the ichimon, then yes, there's probably elder space for Enho if he can stick it. But do note that we are looking at a bit of a kabu crunch now. The only 2 free kabu are Kotoshogiku's Hidenoyama (which won't be free much longer) and Azumazeki's (ex Takamisakari) former Furiwake kabu. Shohozan won't have a kabu if he retires soon, and Toyonoshima needs to find one kabu within 5 years if, as is speculated, Kakuryu retires (as yokozuna, he can go by Kakuryu oyakata for 5 years, but needs a stock after that). And since kabu aren't sold at will any more, we're not sure what the rules on assigning elder names are anymore.

Thanks for the detailed kabu information. I'm glad Isegahama Ichimon rikishi are well taken care of and are not suffering from kabu shortages. Shohozan and eventually Kakuryu's tight spots look unenviable. However, I did not know that Furiwake was vacant. Additionally, hasn't Toyonoshima officially been given the Izutsu kabu now? Why would he have to get another kabu? 

Also, are the rules for establishing a heya known? I know that unless the heya already existed and you are inheriting it,  you can't create a heya unless you already had substantial sanyaku experience. Thanks in advance. 

Also, Goeido's off-ichimon kabu poaching is rather mysterious...

Edited by pricklypomegranate

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Eikokurai said:

Do they really get that much more work? Yokozuna do, with all their dohyo-irk stuff, but an Ozeki?

I've seen enough photos on this very forum to convince me that the YO have a greater number of functions to attend than hiramaku and junior sanyaku. I know I hate having to get suited and booted just to show my face somewhere I don't really want to be...

Or it may be that Mitakeumi really has achieved his maximum potential, and it's not quite good enough for ozeki. Moti-san has been making Wakanosato comparisons for ages.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Shodai now can be sure to be recognized as Shodai, so he may want to keep his shikona

On 03/12/2015 at 10:41, Akinomaki said:

Shodai will be the (joint) 3rd fastest to makuuchi (from maezumo under the present 6 basho system). He has the trouble that he isn't well known - by name and face (no hype like Endo and Ura) - not even in Kyushu: he's from Kumamoto pref., also Kyushu:
At a kara-age shop he was greeted with a simple "O-sumo-san, buy some!" - in Kagoshima when he stepped onto the dohyo for doing butsukari-geiko with makushita, he was announced by the (related!) gyoji as "Lending his chest, Daido" - a fan wanted him to sign the pamphlet page of Seiro - his akeni (sumo trunk) was carried to another heya.
http://www.nikkansports.com/battle/sumo/news/1574441.html
Seems he has reason for his negative thinking

But in the former Futabayama-dojo heya of great tradition, he may as well be persuaded to change it

Edited by Akinomaki
  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
41 minutes ago, pricklypomegranate said:

Also, are the rules for establishing a heya known? I know that unless the heya already existed and you are inheriting it,  you can't create a heya unless you already had substantial sanyaku experience. Thanks in advance. 

Much worse - 60 in makuuchi or 25 in lower sanyaku. If you make it to ozeki or yokozuna you are always qualified.

41 minutes ago, pricklypomegranate said:

Additionally, hasn't Toyonoshima officially been given the Izutsu kabu now? Why would he have to get another kabu? 

He does now have the Izutsu kabu, but it's unknown who actually owns it if such ownership rules actually still apply ever since NSK's rule change. In the other Ozumo Discussions subforum, there was talk recently of how the old payments for kabu changed to consultancy fees, since Toyonoshima was grumbling about his makushita demotion making it difficult to keep up his kabu payments even ostensibly after the rule change.

Historically, Izutsu was linked very closely to Terao's family - the 25th yokozuna Nishinoumi Kajiro adopted a daughter, who herself adopted a daughter who went on to marry Tsurugamine (II), the father of Terao, Sakahoko and Kakureizan. It was so closely linked that Kitanofuji was at one point Izutsu-oyakata, but gave that kabu up to Tsurugamine for that reason. 

With Sakahoko gone, a lot of people were hoping that, should Kakuryu stay on as an oyakata, he would be able to take over the Izutsu kabu as the most successful deshi of Sakahoko, and therefore sort of "keep it in the family". As it is, Kakuryu moved to Michinoku because Michinoku (ex Kirishima) fought out of Izutsu stable in the days when it was still run by Tsurugamine, and was a peer of Sakahoko and Terao. (He's also the second most successful wrestler to come out of Izutsu stable, after Kakuryu.)

41 minutes ago, pricklypomegranate said:

Kakuryu's tight spots look unenviable.

So if that comes to fruition and Kakuryu takes over the Izutsu stock, then Toyonoshima will need to find another kabu, but he has 5 years grace because Kakuryu as a yokozuna is entitled to jun-toshiyori status under his fighting name, and can stay in the NSK as Kakuryu-oyakata for that five years provided he has citizenship. So it could instead potentially be Toyonoshima's tight spot, but they should be fine, because in 5 years time there can be a lot of retirements. In that 5 years, Tatsutagawa and Kagamiyama become available within Tokitsukaze ichimon. It's not as bad as say Shohozan, who has no kabu at all and isn't entitled to jun-toshiyori (only ex-ozeki for 3 years and ex-yokozuna for 5), or the poor sod borrowing Ikioi's kabu, because if Ikioi decides to retire, he's also out of the NSK.

But that said, all this was in the days where people would swap kabus for essentially cosmetic reasons, and I don't know whether these reasons are less strong now that the NSK effectively always decides. For example, Chiyonofuji famously declined ichidai-toshiyori status, instead preferring to succeed as Kokonoe oyakata (swapping his Jinmaku stock with Kitanofuji). Whether this was out of loyalty to Chiyonoyama or because of some innate prestige associated with the Kokonoe name in his own mind, I don't know, but he essentially passed up on being able to market his Jinmaku kabu, since if he had accepted ichidai-toshiyori status, he would have owned an unused kabu that was worth a stupid amount of money at the time. But then again, when you hold the then-second highest number of championships and are presumably set for life financially, perhaps style matters over substance.

41 minutes ago, pricklypomegranate said:

However, I did not know that Furiwake was vacant.

It's relatively recent. It's because Takamisakari used to hold the Furiwake name, but took over the Azumazeki name on the death of the former Ushiomaru, who had himself succeeded Takamiyama. So Takamisakari now has an unused kabu in the Takasago ichimon, but the most likely successor is Okinoumi (the only stables in that ichimon being Azumazeki, Kokonoe, Takasago, Hakkaku and Nishikido), who doesn't seem likely to hang up his mawashi yet.

On checking the db's kabu list, Shohozan may be able to take over the Minezaki name, since Minezaki (ex Misugiiso) is one year from retirement. Come to think of it, there was some talk of Minezaki-beya closing soon.

41 minutes ago, pricklypomegranate said:

Also, Goeido's off-ichimon kabu poaching is rather mysterious...

It is. I think people were wondering how the hell he got hold of the Takekuma name, which admittedly had been vacant for a while; perhaps the NSK just decided to give him the earliest available. But that particular kabu has switched ichimon twice - from Tatsunami to Tokitsukaze to Dewanoumi, and it might be quid pro quo for a subsequent kabu switch from Dewanoumi to Tokitsukaze. Maybe for Ikioi's Kasugayama-kabu? It's currently loaned to Bushuyama, who was from Dewanoumi ichimon, but Ikioi himself is from Tokitsukaze ichimon. Nonetheless, this is all speculation - I don't know for sure, but the patterns look interesting.

Edited by Seiyashi
  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
33 minutes ago, Seiyashi said:

Much worse - 60 in makuuchi or 25 in lower sanyaku. If you make it to ozeki or yokozuna you are always qualified.

That is a very big ask, but then again, I feel like there are too many heya and too many... not unqualified, but simply unsuitable stablemasters (cough cough Taganoura...). Yeah, I agree that poor rikishi don't necessarily mean poor stablemasters (look at Miyagino Oyakata) but they really have to swerve the destructive and insane ones... 

35 minutes ago, Seiyashi said:

He does now have the Izutsu kabu, but it's unknown who actually owns it if such ownership rules actually still apply ever since NSK's rule change. In the other Ozumo Discussions subforum, there was talk recently of how the old payments for kabu changed to consultancy fees, since Toyonoshima was grumbling about his makushita demotion making it difficult to keep up his kabu payments even ostensibly after the rule change.

Historically, Izutsu was linked very closely to Terao's family - the 25th yokozuna Nishinoumi Kajiro adopted a daughter, who herself adopted a daughter who went on to marry Tsurugamine (II), the father of Terao, Sakahoko and Kakureizan. It was so closely linked that Kitanofuji was at one point Izutsu-oyakata, but gave that kabu up to Tsurugamine for that reason. 

With Sakahoko gone, a lot of people were hoping that, should Kakuryu stay on as an oyakata, he would be able to take over the Izutsu kabu as the most successful deshi of Sakahoko, and therefore sort of "keep it in the family". As it is, Kakuryu moved to Michinoku because Michinoku (ex Kirishima) fought out of Izutsu stable in the days when it was still run by Tsurugamine, and was a peer of Sakahoko and Terao. (He's also the second most successful wrestler to come out of Izutsu stable, after Kakuryu.)

I am aware of the Izutsu kabu conflict. It is somewhat related to the Takanohana incident. it's horrendously complicated, but what I understand from it is that Terao had some conflict with one of the big kahuna oyakata in his old ichimon. Furthermore, being a very outspoken oyakata who is quite favourable to reform, he wanted to be free to express his views and hence joined Takanohana's ichimon before being a "free-agent" heya after Takanohana's ichimon fell apart. This did not sit well with the kyokai establishment which meant he was disinherited of Sakahoko's kabu upon his death and by extension, obtaining Kakuryu. The more you look at it, Terao's life is very unfortunate. I can see Toyonoshima staying on until 65 though - despite his many errors, I think he is well-liked in the kyokai and things might go favourably for him (unlike Terao). 

42 minutes ago, Seiyashi said:

On checking the db's kabu list, Shohozan may be able to take over the Minezaki name, since Minezaki (ex Misugiiso) is one year from retirement. Come to think of it, there was some talk of Minezaki-beya closing soon.

Glad Shohozan has options, but might have to suffer the indignity of possibly being demoted off sekitori status. He doesn't have sufficient Makuuchi or sanyaku experience, so inherited the heya would be good if he so wishes to be a stablemaster. Not being able to inherit a stable might do good for some rikishi who can probably handle coaching, but lack the appropriate temperament for heya management. 

45 minutes ago, Seiyashi said:

It is. I think people were wondering how the hell he got hold of the Takekuma name, which admittedly had been vacant for a while; perhaps the NSK just decided to give him the earliest available. But that particular kabu has switched ichimon twice - from Tatsunami to Tokitsukaze to Dewanoumi, and it might be quid pro quo for a subsequent kabu switch from Dewanoumi to Tokitsukaze. Maybe for Ikioi's Kasugayama-kabu? It's currently loaned to Bushuyama, who was from Dewanoumi ichimon, but Ikioi himself is from Tokitsukaze ichimon. Nonetheless, this is all speculation - I don't know for sure, but the patterns look interesting.

Pfft. Thought you knew already. Rule 0 of sumo: Kyokai does what it wants. (Laughing...)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 minutes ago, pricklypomegranate said:

Pfft. Thought you knew already. Rule 0 of sumo: Kyokai does what it wants. (Laughing...)

Yes, but the fun is in finding out the rhyme or reason. Otherwise we wouldn't be here.

5 minutes ago, pricklypomegranate said:

I am aware of the Izutsu kabu conflict.

Mm. I'm less concerned with the circumstances under which Terao left Izutsu and more with the history of the Izutsu kabu itself, and, since Kakuryu wasn't involved, he's still theoretically able to inherit it if the powers that be allow it.

Edited by Seiyashi

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 minutes ago, Seiyashi said:

Yes, but the fun is in finding out the rhyme or reason. Otherwise we wouldn't be here.

Mm. I'm less concerned with the circumstances under which Terao left Izutsu and more with the history of the Izutsu kabu itself, and, since Kakuryu wasn't involved, he's still theoretically able to inherit it if the powers that be allow it.

Indeed. Finding and tracing the backstories are very interesting. The amount of content never seems to run out... 

And yes, if Japanese values are upheld in sumo, then I believe Kakuryu is the rightful owner of Izutsu and as soon as he or Toyonoshima gets another kabu, the kyokai should give them a swap. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 minutes ago, pricklypomegranate said:

And yes, if Japanese values are upheld in sumo, then I believe Kakuryu is the rightful owner of Izutsu and as soon as he or Toyonoshima gets another kabu, the kyokai should give them a swap. 

Say rather if he is deemed to be a worthy successor to the tradition and lineage of the Izutsu kabu. Thinking in terms of rights and shoulds is probably what got Takanohana into that much trouble in the first place. I'd like to think that by the time it comes to decide whether Kakuryu takes over a kabu, the bad blood of the whole Takanohana affair would have smoothed over and stylistics prevails on the powers that be.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
10 hours ago, Sakura said:

For what it's worth this is now the race for the most wins in Makuuchi in 2020. Even remembering that we only have 75 wins maximum instead of the usual 90, that's pretty low.

Nice to see the current/future Ozeki trio leading.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I am wondering about the decision Kotoshogiku is going to make. Tradition says former Ozeki do not carry on in Juryo (I know, there are examples, one very recent, who did). But since he clearly demonstrated he still has it to compete in lower Makuuchi before he got injured, perhaps he will give it another try instead of retiring. On the other hand, his body language wasn´t that convincing he is ready for that.

Edited by Gospodin

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
27 minutes ago, Reonito said:

Nice to see the current/future Ozeki trio leading.

Nice to see Kiribayama in 6th, just 1 behind Mitakeumi.

I can't help liking this lad. He's clearly still learning his trade, but I thought he showed a good range of technique. Some proper old-school gambarizing through injury as well, which I'm not sure about, tbh.

Anyway, I want him to do well, so I'm glad the numbers say it's not just wishful thinking on my part.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 hours ago, Seiyashi said:

Say rather if he is deemed to be a worthy successor to the tradition and lineage of the Izutsu kabu. Thinking in terms of rights and shoulds is probably what got Takanohana into that much trouble in the first place. I'd like to think that by the time it comes to decide whether Kakuryu takes over a kabu, the bad blood of the whole Takanohana affair would have smoothed over and stylistics prevails on the powers that be.

Yup, I concede that. I hope the Kyokai will be merciful to Kakuryu. He really hasn't exhibited reprehensible morals or behaviour. 

22 minutes ago, Gospodin said:

I am wondering about the decision Kotoshogiku is going to make. Tradition says former Ozeki do not carry on in Juryo (I know, there are examples, one very recent, who did). But since he clearly demonstrated he still has it to compete in lower Makuuchi before he got injured, perhaps he will give it another try instead of retiring. On the other hand, his body language wasn´t that convincing he is ready for that.

Yes, Kotoshogiku might retire soon. As much as I enjoy his presence, I really don't want to see him get a permanent injury that could shorten or threaten his future quality of life. He's had a good career and he should at least have the minimum physique to enjoy the fruits of his labour adequately. 

18 minutes ago, RabidJohn said:

Nice to see Kiribayama in 6th, just 1 behind Mitakeumi.

I can't help liking this lad. He's clearly still learning his trade, but I thought he showed a good range of technique. Some proper old-school gambarizing through injury as well, which I'm not sure about, tbh.

Anyway, I want him to do well, so I'm glad the numbers say it's not just wishful thinking on my part.

Yes!!! After this basho, I shall be paying closer attention to Kiribayama, Takanosho and Tobizaru. 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 hours ago, Seiyashi said:

Thinking in terms of rights and shoulds is probably what got Takanohana into that much trouble in the first place. I'd like to think that by the time it comes to decide whether Kakuryu takes over a kabu, the bad blood of the whole Takanohana affair would have smoothed over and stylistics prevails on the powers that be.

It is definitely Monday morning quarterbacking, but in hindsight I think Takanohana´s troubles began the day he entered professional sumo. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
10 minutes ago, pricklypomegranate said:

I really don't want to see him get a permanent injury that could shorten or threaten his future quality of life.

Might be a bit late for that....

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
36 minutes ago, Gospodin said:

I am wondering about the decision Kotoshogiku is going to make. Tradition says former Ozeki do not carry on in Juryo (I know, there are examples, one very recent, who did). But since he clearly demonstrated he still has it to compete in lower Makuuchi before he got injured, perhaps he will give it another try instead of retiring. On the other hand, his body language wasn´t that convincing he is ready for that.

Kotoshigiku interviewed, about the basho: "I did everything I could.", the demotion to juryo imminent: "From now on it's still the fight with myself. I want to firmly make the judgment myself."

"I felt the importance of shiko stamping, which I couldn't do as I got injured. I want to gambarize and look forward."

https://www.daily.co.jp/general/2020/09/28/0013736093.shtml

We'll see how he decides - he might continue, or not

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The YDC was not pleased with the 2 yokozuna, a few wanted to have some warning issued, but they will decide on that after next basho, a 2/3 majority is needed for one. They have encouragement, warning and intai recommendation at their disposal.

They were pleased with Shodai of course: "At last his great talent has come to bloom."

https://www.nikkansports.com/battle/sumo/news/202009280000667.html

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
11 minutes ago, Akinomaki said:

The YDC was not pleased with the 2 yokozuna, a few wanted to have some warning issued, but they will decide on that after next basho, a 2/3 majority is needed for one. They have encouragement, warning and intai recommendation at their disposal.

They were pleased with Shodai of course: "At last his great talent has come to bloom."

https://www.nikkansports.com/battle/sumo/news/202009280000667.html

Kakuryuu, it's time. He hasn't been the same since his Oyakata passed away, and five kyjujos in the last six bashos.. Time to leave with dignity. As for Hakuhou, he can stay till he's 65 , if you ask me. A healthy Hakuhou can still win the yusho. Kakuryuu? I doubt he will ever be 100% healthy again. Hakuhou needs to be 70% healthy.

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now