September (Aki) Basho- offical thread (yay..)

[Benevolance 2,483]

You can still see that monster ichinojo now! Just, you know, only in highlight vids on you tube. 

[WAKATAKE 2,644]

5 hours ago, Amamaniac said:

I would argue then that there are several wrestlers in the top two divisions that are IMHO "dead wood" (not gonna name names) and should also call it a career.  Perhaps setting a mandatory intai age would help the situation (i.e., 35).  I am not suggesting that there haven't been wrestlers who have excelled after the age of 35, but I do think that by 35, almost all sumo wrestlers have their best years behind them.

I doubt such a regulation would be well received (especially since the NSK just extended their age of retirement), but it might help keep things a little more "exciting"... 

If the NSK were to do that we would not have somebody like Hanakaze having competed through 3 different eras of the Japanese calendar.

[Eikokurai 3,437]

3 hours ago, Reonito said:

I believe double-digits in the third basho of the run is an absolute requirement; that's certainly been true historically in the 6-basho era.

It’s been true only in the sense that it’s always happened that way. Remarkably, there have been just two instances in all of sumo history of joi/sanyaku rikishi completing a run to 33 with a 9-6:

Takanosato in 1980 who went 13-2J, 11-4, 9-6. The first basho was at M1.

Miyabiyama in 2006 who went 14-1D, 10-5, 9-6. This was his second attempt at a second promotion. It’s generally agreed that the bar was raised for him because many felt his first promotion had been too hasty, so I’m not sure how much we can learn from this example.

Every other 9-6 basho on an Ozeki run has seen the candidate fall short of the target so that was the deciding factor, not the 9-6 itself. 

As you see, in both instances above there were extenuating circumstances, no yusho and no second big scores to compensate for the 9-6 at the end. There’s little doubt in my mind though that a sanyaku who puts up, say, 13-13-9 or similar would get promoted, particularly if they yusho too. Two 13-to-15 win basho in the run should more than offset one 9-6. Maybe even 12-3 would be okay. Until it happens with the 9-6 at the end, I guess we won’t know for sure. The closest precedent I can think of is Terunofuji’s reverse situation of 8-7, 13-2J, 12-3Y.

I’m talking generally here, by the way, not about Shodai.

Edited September 27, 2020 by Eikokurai
I made a mistake with Takanosato’s middle basho. It was 11-4, not 10-5.

[Reonito 1,384]

4 minutes ago, Eikokurai said:

It’s been true only in the sense that it’s always happened that way.

According to the source of all knowledge, Wikipedia, "A wrestler at the rank of sekiwake will be considered for promotion if he has achieved a total of at least 33 wins over the three most recent tournaments, including ten or more wins in the tournament just completed." That's also the way I've always heard the guidelines stated. Of course, the next sentence in that article beings with "Promotion is discretionary and there are no hard-and-fast rules..."

[Eikokurai 3,437]

3 minutes ago, Reonito said:

According to the source of all knowledge, Wikipedia, "A wrestler at the rank of sekiwake will be considered for promotion if he has achieved a total of at least 33 wins over the three most recent tournaments, including ten or more wins in the tournament just completed." That's also the way I've always heard the guidelines stated. Of course, the next sentence in that article beings with "Promotion is discretionary and there are no hard-and-fast rules..."

The second sentence outweighs the first. The Kyokai can do what it likes. There’s no way in hell they’d deny a rikishi who put up 15-15-9 just because he’d failed to get double digits in the third basho. Heck, they’d likely promote him on the back of the double zensho and not require a third basho at all.

The first rule of sumo is there are no rules.

[Yamanashi 3,777]

10 minutes ago, Eikokurai said:

The first rule of sumo is there are no rules.

Which is why Sumo has it all over Fight Club.

When you've been using judgement calls rather than legalese for 250 years, people will usually give you a little slack.  While many of their decisions and rules seem "inefficient", there aren't many instances where I've felt that they are just off-base.  Except for their obsession with Tochinoshin's heel, of course -- now that's delusional.

[Eikokurai 3,437]

14 minutes ago, Yamanashi said:

Which is why Sumo has it all over Fight Club.

When you've been using judgement calls rather than legalese for 250 years, people will usually give you a little slack.  While many of their decisions and rules seem "inefficient", there aren't many instances where I've felt that they are just off-base.  Except for their obsession with Tochinoshin's heel, of course -- now that's delusional.

Tochinoshin’s heel is their Achilles’ heel.

[Morty 1,483]

1 hour ago, Eikokurai said:

The second sentence outweighs the first. The Kyokai can do what it likes.

Bingo. They always do what they want. There is no logic, only sumo.

[Gurowake 4,016]

Sansho:

Tobizaru and Shodai are the only ones up for any.  Each gets one unconditionally: Shukun-Sho for Shodai, Kanto-Sho for Tobizaru.  Shodai is also up for the Kanto-Sho if he wins the yusho.  Tobizaru is up for the Gino-Sho if he beats Shodai.  So one of those last two will happen, and possibly both if Shodai wins in a playoff.

[Jabbamaru 166]

What is up, sumo nerds!

 I have to confess... lately im just watching the rewiews on the next day....I love sumo but is hard to wake up 4 in the morning to watch Sato or Asanoyama in the musumi no ichiban...I know... many of you guys are enjoyng this new competitive era...And is not all  bad but...i mean...4 in the morning is not easy...they should end this "one gaijin per heya" thing because the quality is droping to much...Anyway, tonight i will making an effort. For Giku. And just for Giku.

Gambare Giko zeki! Gaburigaburi that b* out!

[robnplunder 975]

Ura's win today may have gotten him back to Juryo.  Welcome back, Ura!

[WAKATAKE 2,644]

27 minutes ago, Gurowake said:

Sansho:

Tobizaru and Shodai are the only ones up for any.  Each gets one unconditionally: Shukun-Sho for Shodai, Kanto-Sho for Tobizaru.  Shodai is also up for the Kanto-Sho if he wins the yusho.  Tobizaru is up for the Gino-Sho if he beats Shodai.  So one of those last two will happen, and possibly both if Shodai wins in a playoff.

I guess Onosho and Wakatakakage losing yesterday dropped them from consideration. Shodai shukun-sho is probably because he beat both the ozeki, Tobizaru because of the defacto 10+ performance as a shin-nyumaku.

Edit: So they slimmed it down to those who were still in yusho race it seems. Onosho and Wakatakakage were considered for Kanto-Sho, and Takanosho was considered for Gino-sho, but did not get the necessary votes.

https://www.nikkansports.com/battle/sumo/news/202009270000290.html

Edited September 27, 2020 by WAKATAKE

[robnplunder 975]

It looks like Chiyonokuni will be back in Makuuchi.   He got his 14th win today.  Give him the M17 slot.  

[Kashunowaka 300]

And Oki does the Hoshitango and keeps his score unblemished.

[Kaninoyama 1,712]

Oki with a dubious record he would rather not have. Hopefully he can heal up and redeem himself soon. 

[sahaven111 174]

There goes Oki's life down the drain...

[Kashunowaka 300]

Another disappointing rikishi was Nishikifuji, who went from 7-3 to 7-8 in his sekitori debut. 

[Eikokurai 3,437]

Oki is smart. 1-14 and he would be forgotten in time, but at 0-15 he’s cemented his place in sumo history. 

[WAKATAKE 2,644]

Oki is the first rikishi since Hoshitango to have done a full fifteen days and get a zenpai (losses). Yotsukasa technically had an 0-15 in Kyushu of 2005 but his 15th loss was a fusenpai. He retired immediately after the basho. We probably won't be seeing Oki back for a long, long time.

http://sumodb.sumogames.de/Query.aspx?show_form=0&form1_rank=M, J&form1_wins=0&form1_losses=15&form1_m=on&form1_j=on

Edited September 27, 2020 by WAKATAKE

[Jakusotsu 5,874]

6 hours ago, Eikokurai said:

There’s no way in hell they’d deny a rikishi who put up 15-15-9 just because he’d failed to get double digits in the third basho.

I doubt that very much.

[Eikokurai 3,437]

3 minutes ago, Jakusotsu said:

I doubt that very much.

From the phrasing, I’m not sure what you doubt.

[Jakusotsu 5,874]

To phrase it more clearly: I think 15-15-9 would be denied.

Edited September 28, 2020 by Jakusotsu
typo

[Sakura 1,480]

Hiro has just said on air that he is surprised that Takakeisho didn't get a special prize....

[Eikokurai 3,437]

21 minutes ago, Jakusotsu said:

To phrase is more clearly: I think 15-15-9 would be denied.

Which is, forgive my bluntness, absolutely nuts. Terunofuji was promoted with way less. Back-to-back yusho is hard enough. Zensho yusho is hard enough. Back-to-back zensho yusho is one of the hardest things to achieve in sumo. This century only three men have managed it: Asashoryu, Hakuho and Harumafuji. The latter earned Yokozuna promotion after doing it. There is zero chance a Sekiwake would be denied Ozeki for doing the same. It would make a mockery of the whole ranking system if it’s harder to become an Ozeki than a Yokozuna. They wouldn’t even wait for the 9-6; that Sekiwake would be promoted immediately.

Edited September 27, 2020 by Eikokurai

[specialweek 2 136]

12 minutes ago, Sakura said:

Hiro has just said on air that he is surprised that Takakeisho didn't get a special prize....

I believe he meant Takanosho, error.