Kintamayama

September (Aki) Basho- offical thread (yay..)

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Eikokurai and Seiyashi, you are making a very good case for Shodai's immediate Ozeki promotion.  I bow to your logic, especially since we could be seeing one or two Yokozunas hang up their tsunas in the not too distant future... (not that that should really matter). (Bow...)

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19 minutes ago, Amamaniac said:

Eikokurai and Seiyashi, you are making a very good case for Shodai's immediate Ozeki promotion.  I bow to your logic, especially since we could be seeing one or two Yokozunas hang up their tsunas in the not too distant future... (not that that should really matter). (Bow...)

Well, don't say that, because now my humiliation will be even greater when the Kyokai ignores my advice.

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1 hour ago, Eikokurai said:

Takanohana's career was something of an outlier in so many ways sometimes I barely think it's worth turning to it for precedent. Look at the hoops they made him jump through to become Yokozuna. He already had seven yusho and four jun-yusho to his name!

With the approach the kyokai seems to employ today, he would have probably been promoted in 93. But with the Kitao disaster still in recent memory, I suppose the two consecutive yusho rule was carved in stone back then.

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1 hour ago, RabidJohn said:

He's clearly made a step up from the run of the mill hiramaku he was a year ago, much like Asanayoma was nothing particularly special until he was. 

 

I respectfully disagree regarding Asanoyama. From his first Makuuchi bout on, he had Sanyaku regular written all over him. 

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1 hour ago, Eikokurai said:

Asking for double-digits would be incredibly harsh. He has had five KKs in succession, four of them 11+, four in the sanyaku/joi, and with two JYs and potentially one Y in the mix. Setting him 34 wins instead of the usual 33 would be about the meanest thing they could do.

If Shodai is denied after this tournament double digits in November is absolutely essential. It's inconceivable to win ozeki promotion with a 9-6. 

Edited by ryafuji
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Wow Shodia get's  Tobizaru, Its in his hands. I don't see him losing, but will be exciting if he does.  Kagayaki, Kaisi, Aioyama, Ichinogo  all going to to sensuraku at 7-7.  Akiseyama down in Juryo with 11 wins and runner up. Ura comes up to Juryo for his final match. 

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3 hours ago, Eikokurai said:
3 hours ago, Amamaniac said:

Eikokurai and Seiyashi, you are making a very good case for Shodai's immediate Ozeki promotion.  I bow to your logic, especially since we could be seeing one or two Yokozunas hang up their tsunas in the not too distant future... (not that that should really matter). (Bow...)

Well, don't say that, because now my humiliation will be even greater when the Kyokai ignores my advice.

@Eikokurai@Akinomaki@RabidJohn Courtesy of Herutto's twitter linking this - Takadagawa oyakata deputy shimpan-cho has said Shodai's ozeki promotion will be judged by tomorrow's bout, and he has been doing very well this basho. So @Eikokurai and I called it: it is down to tomorrow's bout - and the yusho - against Tobizaru!

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2 hours ago, Gospodin said:

I respectfully disagree regarding Asanoyama. From his first Makuuchi bout on, he had Sanyaku regular written all over him. 

Au contraire! In his first 12 makuuchi basho Asanoyama recorded 6MKs, including a dismal 5-10 at M11W.

I call that mediocre; not good, but not bad either, especially with a yusho just before his last MK.

Then last September he started a thus far unbroken run of double-digit KKs. 

I call that a very distinct step up in performance. 

Shodai appears to have made a similar step up.

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Sweeeeet, exciting buildup and finale for the basho! Whoever wins tomorrow, I'll be happy.

Guess I'll tune in to NHK's broadcast before visiting my favourite grocery store ;-)

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On 25/09/2020 at 12:01, RabidJohn said:

 If Shodai can beat Asanoyama tomorrow, then he thoroughly deserves the yusho and promotion.

@Seiyashi That's what I said yesterday.

What I didn't know is whether finishing with a 13-2Y for 32/45 would be enough for the NSK. Your post gives me hope that it will be.

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Even though I of course want Tobizaru to win so my man Takakeisho still has a chance to get the yusho
I must say I'd be very happy for Shodai if he won the yusho and because of that promotion to Ozeki,
with this Yusho he would have  one yusho, two Jun-Yushos in the last five tournaments.
I don't think you can say he doesn't deserve it, he showed some great Sumo these last couple of months.
In my opinion it would be the right decision to promote him if he secures the win tomorrow.

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52 minutes ago, Seiyashi said:

 

@Eikokurai@Akinomaki@RabidJohn Courtesy of Herutto's twitter linking this - Takadagawa oyakata deputy shimpan-cho has said Shodai's ozeki promotion will be judged by tomorrow's bout, and he has been doing very well this basho. So @Eikokurai and I called it: it is down to tomorrow's bout - and the yusho - against Tobizaru!

Here's Google Translate: The refereeing department of the Japan Sumo Association has announced that it will discuss the promotion of Shodai Ozeki before the efforts of Chiakiraku. Deputy Director Takadagawa said, "I will judge by looking at tomorrow's sumo," and said, "I have gained horsepower. I don't do any tricks and I like it."

Some of the pronouns are clearly wrong since Japanese doesn't use them very often and relies on semantic context more heavily than other languages, which is nearly impossible to do right with machine translation since it doesn't have the proper context.  I'm pretty sure the last line is "Shodai has gained horsepower.  He doesn't do any tricks and I like it".  "Chiakiraku" is a misreading of "Senshuraku", with only the last kanji read properly.  The wrong readings are encountered elsewhere in sumo too:   千 is Chi in Chiyo- (Thousand Years) and 秋 is Aki (Autumn) as in Aki basho.  (Senshuraku literally means "Thousand Autumn pleasure" or similar).  Somehow the romaji transliteration (Nihonsumoukyōkai no shinpan-bu wa, senshūraku no torikumi mae ni, Shōdai no ōzeki shōshin ni tsuite giron suru koto o akiraka ni shimashita) correctly gets it as "senshūraku" even though the English translation doesn't.

Edited by Gurowake
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30 minutes ago, RabidJohn said:

I call that a very distinct step up in performance. 

Shodai appears to have made a similar step up.

I am not contending this. However, even when the results did not show, you could observe the talent and a gradual improvement from day 1. The main difference between Asanoyama a year ago and today is strength. The technique was already there.

With Shodai...no idea what caused him to unlock his potential at this time. In any case,  I am happy we have another good rikishi with a countering style in Sanyaku.

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19 minutes ago, Gurowake said:

Here's Google Translate: The refereeing department of the Japan Sumo Association has announced that it will discuss the promotion of Shodai Ozeki before the efforts of Chiakiraku. Deputy Director Takadagawa said, "I will judge by looking at tomorrow's sumo," and said, "I have gained horsepower. I don't do any tricks and I like it."

Some of the pronouns are clearly wrong since Japanese doesn't use them very often and relies on semantic context more heavily than other languages, which is nearly impossible to do right with machine translation since it doesn't have the proper context.  I'm pretty sure the last line is "Shodai has gained horsepower.  He doesn't do any tricks and I like it".  "Chiakiraku" is a misreading of "Senshuraku", with only the last kanji read properly.  Somehow the romaji transliteration (Nihonsumoukyōkai no shinpan-bu wa, senshūraku no torikumi mae ni, Shōdai no ōzeki shōshin ni tsuite giron suru koto o akiraka ni shimashita) correctly gets it as "senshūraku" even though the English translation doesn't.

Note that the judge will be based on the quality of sumo more than the results.  If he loses two (or more in a tomoesen) very close matches tomorrow where he shows great skill and power, he still might get promoted even without the yusho, though I admit that's only a theoretical possibility.  I personally don't see him getting promoted if he loses his honwari match, even if he wins the playoff, but I admit that if he shows great skill and manages only a 12-3 yusho that could be enough.  On the other side, if he wins his honwari match with a trick, he might not get promoted. 

They aren't coming out and saying like with Goeido that if he wins he gets it; I think it made more sense for Goeido since he had a much longer history of staying in sanyaku and just needed to put up some reasonable numbers, and 32 with the final win being part of the yusho race was enough. 

Edited by Gurowake
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I demand Kakuryu and Hakuho call it a career. It's so much more exciting without Mom & Pop always crashing the party.

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I was wondering, is Tobizaru the first freshman meeting an Ozeki? Far from it. Latest instance Ichinojo gobbled up two of them. Tobizaru is not even the lowest ranked, see Goeido.

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52 minutes ago, Benihana said:

I demand Kakuryu and Hakuho call it a career. It's so much more exciting without Mom & Pop always crashing the party.

As for Kakuryu, you could get your wish pretty soon. Injuries aside, he isn´t the same since his oyakata died. Hakuho. I expect him to continue restoring order every second basho for another year or so.

BTW: John Gunning´s remark that as sumo writer you feel like a TV critic <sic> commenting on Game of Thrones is a gem. :-)

Edited by Gospodin

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I'd say for Hakuho the big question is still the Olympics. We do know that is his goal. The question is whether that'll happen next year or not. I think that's what's going to decided how long he'll stay around.

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40 minutes ago, Benihana said:

I demand Kakuryu and Hakuho call it a career. It's so much more exciting without Mom & Pop always crashing the party.

I would argue then that there are several wrestlers in the top two divisions that are IMHO "dead wood" (not gonna name names) and should also call it a career.  Perhaps setting a mandatory intai age would help the situation (i.e., 35).  I am not suggesting that there haven't been wrestlers who have excelled after the age of 35, but I do think that by 35, almost all sumo wrestlers have their best years behind them.

I doubt such a regulation would be well received (especially since the NSK just extended their age of retirement), but it might help keep things a little more "exciting"... ;-)

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17 minutes ago, Amamaniac said:

I would argue then that there are several wrestlers in the top two divisions that are IMHO "dead wood" (not gonna name names) and should also call it a career.  Perhaps setting a mandatory intai age would help the situation (i.e., 35).  I am not suggesting that there haven't been wrestlers who have excelled after the age of 35, but I do think that by 35, almost all sumo wrestlers have their best years behind them.

I doubt such a regulation would be well received (especially since the NSK just extended their age of retirement), but it might help keep things a little more "exciting"... ;-)

Retire, OR drop 2 divisions from your rank in the sekitori, with a ban on repromotion to sekitori and without any other prior rank bonus. Imagine Hakuho in upper makushita. One basho kyujo and dropping, next basho carnage in upper makushita, kyujo, carnage, kyujo...you get the idea.

Fun set aside, i say no to mandatory retirement, we would lose guys like Hanakaze.

Edited by Benihana

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On any given tournament someone is going to be sandbagging it, and it's not always the old guys. The banzuke committee takes care of it in due time.

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20 minutes ago, Benihana said:

Retire, OR drop 2 divisions from your rank in the sekitori, with a ban on repromotion to sekitori and without any other prior rank bonus.

Next step: implement a handicap system. Yokozuna have to start with their back to their opponent, etc :-D

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42 minutes ago, Amamaniac said:

I would argue then that there are several wrestlers in the top two divisions that are IMHO "dead wood" (not gonna name names) and should also call it a career.

Check out the last few basho.  This is already happening naturally.  The deadwood tends to clear itself.  The two sitting on the top are not preventing anyone from replacing them.  The old gang is dropping to Juryo, then Makushita, then intai.  The only thing that is preventing the new guys from advancing is the new guys.

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6 minutes ago, Asojima said:
51 minutes ago, Amamaniac said:

I would argue then that there are several wrestlers in the top two divisions that are IMHO "dead wood" (not gonna name names) and should also call it a career.

Check out the last few basho.  This is already happening naturally.  The deadwood tends to clear itself.  The two sitting on the top are not preventing anyone from replacing them.  The old gang is dropping to Juryo, then Makushita, then intai.  The only thing that is preventing the new guys from advancing is the new guys.

In the last year alone we lost Goeido, Yoshikaze, and Tochiozan.

What is more telling is that - this time last year, the average age of the top division was 29, whereas this year, it's 29.3. So if all the deadwood had stayed on, the average would have been 30. It suggests that we are losing deadwood, and the moment the two yokozuna, Shohozan and Kotoshogiku retire, the average age is probably going to drop below 29. 

Whether 29 is old for the top division is another matter altogether.

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