Kintamayama

September (Aki) Basho- offical thread (yay..)

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2 hours ago, Jakusotsu said:

http://sumodb.sumogames.de/Query_bout.aspx?show_form=0&group_by=basho&g_op==&having=0&ms=on&sd=on&jd=on&jk=on&yd1=on

Edit: Incidentally, two of those winners of yore are still in contention for the Makunouchi Yusho this basho.

Really weird how it was averaging about 1 per decade then 2013 showed up. Maybe due to the drought of youngsters entering?

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One of my favourites from day 13---there is something I find slightly humorous about one rikishi looking in control and on the offensive, aggressively working to finish their opponent, only to end up getting flipped and tossed aside like a lightweight.

V5Twek.gif

Edited by Katooshu
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15 hours ago, Amamaniac said:

At this point, I am convinced he is trying to outdo Goeido in terms of tournaments spent in "junior" Sanyaku.

Before promotion to Ozeki, Goeido was Komusubi 4X and Sekiwake 14X (nice long streak therein), whereas Mitakeumi has been Komusubi 7X and Sekiwake 14X.  Thus Mitakeumi's total "junior" Sanyaku stint is actually longer than Goeido's.  Perhaps there are other wrestlers that have had longer such stints.

Another interesting comparison between the two aforementioned wrestlers is that Mitakeumi spent only 9 tournaments in Maegashira, whereas Goeido was there for 22 tournaments.

Difficult to know if we should view Mitakeumi as being a shooting star that hit a wall or as being a future late bloomer.

Off the top of my head I can think of Akinoshima.  A quick wiki search shows "27 tournaments, 15 at komosubi and 12 at sekiwake"

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53 minutes ago, Yangnomazuma said:

Off the top of my head I can think of Akinoshima.  A quick wiki search shows "27 tournaments, 15 at komosubi and 12 at sekiwake"

Kotonishiki is the record-holder with 34 "junior" san'yaku appearances, Kaio was second with 32. Among recent rikishi who didn't make Ozeki, Tochiozan had 25. Full list here.

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31 minutes ago, Reonito said:

Kotonishiki is the record-holder with 34 "junior" san'yaku appearances, Kaio was second with 32. Among recent rikishi who didn't make Ozeki, Tochiozan had 25. Full list here.

So that's Mitakeumi's goal... 35 basho as a Sekiwake or Komusubi :-)

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So, what does everyone think is going to happen these final days?  I personally think that on day 14 Onosho will beat Takanosho to stay at three losses, then Wakatakakage will beat Mitakeumi to stay at three losses.  Asanoyama has been on fire these past couple matches and will beat Shodai, leaving them both with three losses.  Then on the final match of the day, Tobizaru and Takakeisho duke it out in epic fashion and will end with Tobizaru getting pulled down, leaving them both with three losses.  This will leave six guys going into day fifteen with three losses, tied for first.  Day fifteen will have three matches that pit each three loss guy against each other, leaving only three left at the end to have a playoff.  The three in question will no doubt be Tobizaru, Onosho, and Asanoyama.  At this point, Onosho will show his true strength and absolutely railroad both guys out in an instant, winning the Basho.

Of course, this is super unlikely but I'd like to see it happen.  I imagine that Onosho and Wakatakakage will both win tomorrow and stay at three losses.  I do think that Asanoyama will beat Shodai tomorrow, but I'm only 51% sure.  I really think Tobizaru will win tomorrow, I don't know why, just a feeling.  If Shodai and Tobizaru win tomorrow, that still leaves day fifteen an exciting finish.

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Rikishi like Mitakeumi ought to be called Dai-Sekiwake, just to separate them from the guys who make one appearance at the rank and flop.

Or maybe Dai-Sanyaku.

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4 hours ago, Kaninoyama said:

Who among us would have predicted a year ago that Shodai would be on the cusp of reaching Ozekihood before Mitakeumi? 

Not me.  I have written off Shodai from reaching Ozekihood unless he fixes his head-high-tachihai.   He has not fixed it but is getting closer to making it.   Go figure.

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4 hours ago, Kaninoyama said:

Who among us would have predicted a year ago that Shodai would be on the cusp of reaching Ozekihood before Mitakeumi? 

I remember earlier this year when he did that joyful little jump, and ran gleefully up the hanamichi, after beating an ozeki five years younger than himself. It's crazy to me that guy suddenly has this much fortitude.

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1 hour ago, Sakura said:

So that's Mitakeumi's goal... 35 basho as a Sekiwake or Komusubi :-)

Here you go from the other thread

Most Basho in Sanyaku (Sekiwake and Komusubi, 6BPY Era)

1. 34 - Kotonishiki
2. 32 - Kaio
3. 31 - Musoyama
4. 30 - Hasegawa
4. 30 - Kotomitsuki
6. 27 - Takamiyama
6. 27 - Akinoshima
8. 26 - Takatoriki
8. 26 - Wakanosato
10. 25 - Tochiozan

Mita stands at 20 including this basho.

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29 minutes ago, Eikokurai said:

Rikishi like Mitakeumi ought to be called Dai-Sekiwake, just to separate them from the guys who make one appearance at the rank and flop.

Or maybe Dai-Sanyaku.

According the the glossary, the term is Ozewake.

Edited by Reonito
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Looking at the standings it appears Asanoyama still controls his own destiny. Assuming he beats Shodai tomorrow (a big if) and he gets scheduled against Tobizaru (assuming he wins as well) on the final day he can still force his way into a potentially crowded playoff. 
 

I know it’d be more traditional for the two Ozeki to meet on the last day but would they really let Tobizaru go against lighter competition on day 15 if an Ozeki is still in the race?

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15 minutes ago, Reonito said:

According the the glossary, the term is Ozewake.

Yeah, I prefer Dai-Sekiwake. It’s more positive. Ozewake is for guys presumed to be good enough for Ozeki but who don’t make it. It’s focused on their failure. Dai-Sekiwake are guys who simply peak at that rank but are more than good enough to get regular/consistent kachikoshi up there. It focuses on the achievement, which it is. If you put up more than ten basho of 8-7s and 9-6s in junior sanyaku, you’ve had a damn good career worth celebrating.

Edited by Eikokurai
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12 minutes ago, Eikokurai said:

If you put up more than ten basho of 8-7s and 9-6s in junior sanyaku, you’ve had a damn good career worth celebrating.

This. If you spend a lot of time at Sekiwake during your career you have been in the top 1 percent of rikishi all time. That's a pretty spectacular career. Not everyone can make it to Ozeki, and half of the people who do get there don't make Yokozuna. We western sumo fans seem to consider it a failure to spend a lot of time at Sekiwake and not make it to Ozeki, but I wonder what the Japanese think about it? It's kind of like coming fourth in an Olympic final...

 

Edited by Morty
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30 minutes ago, Morty said:

This. If you spend a lot of time at Sekiwake during your career you have been in the top 1 percent of rikishi all time. That's a pretty spectacular career. Not everyone can make it to Ozeki, and half of the people who do get there don't make Yokozuna. We western sumo fans seem to consider it a failure to spend a lot of time at Sekiwake and not make it to Ozeki, but I wonder what the Japanese think about it? It's kind of like coming fourth in an Olympic final...

 

I suppose there are some Sekiwake we could judge to have fallen short by not making Ozeki, and perhaps Mitaekumi fits the bill with his two yusho, but true Sekiwake who are ‘only’ good enough to peak at 8-10 wins in sanyaku have nothing to be at all ashamed of. Managing that ten times over or for a long streak is well worthy of respect.

I think a lot of the problem is that because Sekiwake is the highest rank you can achieve by kachikoshi alone, it isn’t held in quite as high regard as it perhaps ought to be. But of course, just as it can be attained by a simple succession of 8-7s, so too can it be lost very easily. One 7-8 and you’re back down again. Worse and you’re back in the joi. Thus a sustained streak at Sekiwake, like Mitakeumi has done, shows a rikishi can hold his own among the best; he just isn’t quite strong enough to do it every day over 15 days.

Edited by Eikokurai
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1 hour ago, Katsunorifuji said:

Looking at the standings it appears Asanoyama still controls his own destiny. Assuming he beats Shodai tomorrow (a big if) and he gets scheduled against Tobizaru (assuming he wins as well) on the final day he can still force his way into a potentially crowded playoff. 
 

I know it’d be more traditional for the two Ozeki to meet on the last day but would they really let Tobizaru go against lighter competition on day 15 if an Ozeki is still in the race?

If Asanoyama wins today and Tobizaru is also victorious I‘m sure there a possibility they meet at senshuraku. I think they want Asanoyama to be in control of the yusho race and have his fate in his own hands. 

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1 hour ago, Morty said:

This. If you spend a lot of time at Sekiwake during your career you have been in the top 1 percent of rikishi all time. That's a pretty spectacular career. Not everyone can make it to Ozeki, and half of the people who do get there don't make Yokozuna. We western sumo fans seem to consider it a failure to spend a lot of time at Sekiwake and not make it to Ozeki, but I wonder what the Japanese think about it? It's kind of like coming fourth in an Olympic final...

 

I saw a program about a Japanese Olympic swimmer of yesteryear who got a silver medal and then received many letters from the Japanese public berating her for failing to get the gold medal. (She went on to win gold in a subsequent Olympic Games.)

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I think what causes so much disappointment regarding Mitakeumi is that he looks to have the talent, but lacks in other areas. It can be really frustrating to see collapses like Aki 2018 or Kyushu 2019 where he ruins his Basho in week 2 after winning a Yusho the tournament before. It just seems as if his potential exceeds the results, and occasional Yushos or Yusho contentions seem like proof for this. There hasn't been a progression in the last two years though. 

Shodai seems to have found a stride after dropping out of joi a year ago with an abysmal 3-12 record. His sumo and his demeanor seem to have changed, as if he took the demotion to lower Makuuchi as a chance to regroup. While I don't know about looming Ozekihood just yet, (at least) 55 wins out of 75 sounds really impressive, as does being in real contention for three out five. He also was in contention while being in joi and is at the very least 43 out of 60 in the joi tournaments. It just seems as if he has taken the step Mitakeumi has been aiming at to take since grabbing that first Yusho, albeit without taking a cup. 

 

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3 minutes ago, Thorbjarn said:

He also was in contention while being in joi

The one caveat there is that the yusho that tournament went to the M17w Tokushoryu, who actually beat Shodai on the way. It makes the jun-yusho a little less impressive, though I personally am still of the mind the numbers are good enough to be counted.

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Taiho's grandson Naya enjoyed a successful visit to Juryo today, ending on 5-2 at Ms4. Sekitori debut in November?

Edited by Eikokurai

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15 minutes ago, Thorbjarn said:

I think what causes so much disappointment regarding Mitakeumi is that he looks to have the talent, but lacks in other areas. It can be really frustrating to see collapses like Aki 2018 or Kyushu 2019 where he ruins his Basho in week 2 after winning a Yusho the tournament before. It just seems as if his potential exceeds the results, and occasional Yushos or Yusho contentions seem like proof for this. There hasn't been a progression in the last two years though. 

Shodai seems to have found a stride after dropping out of joi a year ago with an abysmal 3-12 record. His sumo and his demeanor seem to have changed, as if he took the demotion to lower Makuuchi as a chance to regroup. While I don't know about looming Ozekihood just yet, (at least) 55 wins out of 75 sounds really impressive, as does being in real contention for three out five. He also was in contention while being in joi and is at the very least 43 out of 60 in the joi tournaments. It just seems as if he has taken the step Mitakeumi has been aiming at to take since grabbing that first Yusho, albeit without taking a cup. 

 

+1.  Except for his two yusho bashos, more often than not, he lost to lesser opponents when it mattered.  He also has a poorer record in 2nd half of a basho.  It suggests to me that he lacks stamina and focus to perform at his best for all 15 days.  Unless something happens that shakes him up, he will never be an Ozeki.  Perhaps, breaking the record for the most bashos as sanyuku is the best he can achieve.  

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3 minutes ago, Amamaniac said:

Oki moves to 14-0 in Juryo!  The watch for a zenpai is on!

 

Poor kid.  He became a Hattorizakura of Juryo.  (Shakinghead...)

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