Kintamayama

September (Aki) Basho- offical thread (yay..)

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Does Tobizaru really have to jog out of the dohyo everytime as if his momentum couldn't be stopped in two steps ???

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1 hour ago, robnplunder said:

Basho being "hectic" is the norm unless Hak goes zensho-yusho.   This basho started out wide open and went crazy after that.  

Yeah, perhaps an inaccurate way of putting it. But I do genuinely feel that this yusho race and it’s associated calamities are particularly crazy this time. 

29 minutes ago, Kaninoyama said:

But since he's already faced his strongest opponents while Takekeisho has not, the stars are lining up nicely for a repeat Terunofuji yusho. 

If Terunofuji wins two in a row, that is a definite diss to the latest generation of rikishi and sanyaku in my opinion. It would prove that Terunofuji’s yusho in July is no fluke. To long time watchers: Do you think the quality of rikishi have dropped? I have only watched since Nov 2019. 

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1 hour ago, pricklypomegranate said:

Do you think the quality of rikishi have dropped?

Short answer is yes. Slightly longer answer, the middle and lower ranks are about the same but the top end has definitely declined. When I started watching in September 2014 the two top spots on the banzuke were filled by Hakuho and Kakuryu. Six years later they are still there but nowhere near as good as they were back then. The third highest ranked wrestler at Aki 2014 was Harumafuji, now it's Asanoyama and trust me that is a huge step downwards. The gap between the top and bottom of makunouchi has shrunken noticeably, which is why we have had two wins from M17s this year. As I'm always trying to look on the bright side I have to say that our current line-up is more unpredictable and exciting.

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1 hour ago, pricklypomegranate said:

Do you think the quality of rikishi have dropped? I have only watched since Nov 2019. 

When the benchmark is Hakuho and Asashoryu then it can only trend downwards from there. I know a lot of people on the forum think the overall quality has dropped (and maybe it has) but if I'm honest, I prefer this "who knows who is going to win" era, rather than the boring procession of Hak or Asa winning five times per year, with someone else occasionally taking a yusho when they have an off fortnight. Unpredictability is fun.  

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I'm sorry but how in the world was that not a win for Aoiyama? Yes he technically stepped out first, but Takayasu was flying down dead body defeated a good time before that. If that was not dead body I am a pelican. Aoiyama was on his feet, perfectly balanced, in control, while Takayasu was falling flat on his stomach with no attempt to do anything about it. We've seen the dead body rule used plenty of times in recent basho regardless of who stepped out first, but suddenly for this bout it didn't count? Really confused here.

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Takayasu was certainly on the offensive. Is there a difference between a "dead body" inside the ring and one beyond the bales?

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And all of a sudden its Takakeisho's yusho to lose! What the hell is happening here?!

Not that it isn't fun and enticing, but, ya know, after years of things being quite clear, this is very...irregular.

I'd say 12-3 playoff yusho, if Takakeisho keeps his current level then maybe 13-2 and tsuna run start. Out of the rest I'd say only Shodai and Terunofuji seem to have legitimate chance to win, with Kotoshoho and Tobizaru being the wildcards.

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24 minutes ago, lackmaker said:

Takayasu was certainly on the offensive. Is there a difference between a "dead body" inside the ring and one beyond the bales?

I don't think so, but the dead body rule as I understand it is: if a rikishi on the offensive hurls both himself and his opponent out of the ring, and he touches down first, his opponent is ruled as the loser if the opponent cannot recover his position (i.e. dead body). The catch in the rule is that it operates to reverse the normal order of loss where if you touch down first, you lose, if you were executing superior sumo immediately before the touchdown. So in this case, since Aoiyama was on the defensive and touched down first, he lost, simple. Dead body doesn't even come in. It would only have applied in this bout if Aoiyama had jumped out, Takayasu landed first, and then Aoiyama touched down.

As to whether Aoiyama was trying anything, it's a similar argument to that Takakeisho v Enho bout back where Enho was trying to fiddle with the back of Takakeisho's mawashi as he got bowled out before Takakeisho went over the tawara himself. The major force here was Takayasu's pushing out of Aoiyama. You could argue that Aoiyama slapped Takayasu down and stepped out first and hence it was Takayasu who was dead body, but here I think is where there is room for reasonable disagreement; the gyoji and shimpan all thought that it was Takayasu's sumo that was superior and hence no need to invoke the rule in the first place.

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Fly, Monkey, fly!

I've got a feeling that Terunofuji might become our next yokozuna if he stays healthy (then Hakuho can retire in peace knowing that the Mongolian Great Wall continues). It's clear that his sumo skills are up there compared to the bulk.

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10 minutes ago, Seiyashi said:

if a rikishi on the offensive hurls both himself and his opponent out of the ring, and he touches down first, his opponent is ruled as the loser if the opponent cannot recover his position (i.e. dead body).

And presumably if the opponent touches down first trying to avoid the offensive move it still wouldn't matter if the attacker was a "dead body".

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30 minutes ago, hakutorizakura said:

I've got a feeling that Terunofuji might become our next yokozuna

Okezi first. He'll need a lot to get back there, more than the 33 usual wins

 

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41 minutes ago, hakutorizakura said:

I've got a feeling that Terunofuji might become our next yokozuna if he stays healthy (then Hakuho can retire in peace knowing that the Mongolian Great Wall continues). It's clear that his sumo skills are up there compared to the bulk.

I was thinking that back in September of 2015!  And then along came Kisenosato... sigh.  Even with his right knee shot, Teru went on to fight a playoff bout against Kakuryu.  That brave effort probably aggravated his knee situation, and the rest is history.

He was Yokozuna material just prior to September 25, 2015, and despite all that has happened since then, he seems to be Yokozuna material once again!

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7 hours ago, pricklypomegranate said:

Do you think the quality of rikishi have dropped?

I think the quality has definately dropped for a couple of years mainly because there is no dominating yokozuna. Hakuho has won 4 out of the last 16 yusho, Kakuryu 3. 

However I feel the standard in this basho (and in July too) has been great. It seems like a lot of exiting rikishi are in good form since they had 4 months off between april and July.

Asanoyama and Takakeisho are proving to be very solid Ozekis.

We have three Sekiwake coming into this basho with 11-4 records, 2 of them are looking up to Ozeki.

Oldie Okinoumi is showing his best sumo of the last 5 years, so is oldie Myogiryu.

Endo is a steady komusubi, M1 and can surprise everyone.

Terunofuji is back to beastmode.

And we have some very exiting newcomers in Kotoshoho, Hoshoryu, Wakatakakage, Kiribayama,... they all definately belong in Makuuchi. Don't write Meisei off too. 

I think the bottom has been reached in 2019 and the quality is now going up.

This will probably have consequences for some older wrestlers who near the end of their carreers.

 

Edited by Gooner
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3 hours ago, lackmaker said:

Takayasu was certainly on the offensive

Anyone can be on the offensive: I have been on the offensive in many fights but have lost almost all of them.  I could be on the offensive against Hakuho for about 0.17 seconds before he snapped my jaw, shoulder and hip... if I was lucky.

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3 hours ago, bettega said:

Okezi first. He'll need a lot to get back there, more than the 33 usual wins

 

Of course. I should have written "eventually" :-)

 

3 hours ago, Amamaniac said:

I was thinking that back in September of 2015!  And then along came Kisenosato... sigh.  Even with his right knee shot, Teru went on to fight a playoff bout against Kakuryu.  That brave effort probably aggravated his knee situation, and the rest is history.

He was Yokozuna material just prior to September 25, 2015, and despite all that has happened since then, he seems to be Yokozuna material once again!

He is no longer the 2015 version of himself now, but with the somewhat weaker competition now compared to that time I wouldn't be surprised if he makes it. Imagine if that happens, what a story that would make (even more dramatic than Nishikigi's Cinderella story) :-D

 

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21 minutes ago, hakutorizakura said:
4 hours ago, Amamaniac said:

I was thinking that back in September of 2015!  And then along came Kisenosato... sigh.  Even with his right knee shot, Teru went on to fight a playoff bout against Kakuryu.  That brave effort probably aggravated his knee situation, and the rest is history.

He was Yokozuna material just prior to September 25, 2015, and despite all that has happened since then, he seems to be Yokozuna material once again!

He is no longer the 2015 version of himself now, but with the somewhat weaker competition now compared to that time I wouldn't be surprised if he makes it. Imagine if that happens, what a story that would make (even more dramatic than Nishikigi's Cinderella story) :-D

Agreed that Terunofuji is facing a weaker set of Top Division opponents compared with 2015.  We have yet to see him go up against the two sidelined/active Yokozuna.  I can't decide whether (with their experience) they could handle Terunofuji, or if they may just be afraid of his strength and power.

I'm not familiar with "Nishikigi's Cinderella story", but he is on track to outdo Tochinoshin's dramatic comeback from injury.

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Watching the slow motion replay of today's Kotoshoho v. Hoshoryu bout, I noticed that Hoshoryu looked as though he thought he may have won that contest at the bales.  But the only way he could have won that is if the shimpan had called a hansoku illegal hair pull for when Kotoshoho's bum (pardon my French) landed on Hoshoryu's mage in the corner.  But that was never going to happen. ;-)

Originally I feared that Kotoshoho hay have landed on Hoshoryu's head!  It's all about the camera angles...

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3 hours ago, hakutorizakura said:

Nishikigi's Cinderella story

Are you confusing him for Ryuden, Tochinoshin, Ura or maybe Chiyonokuni? I don’t recall Nishikigi having a comeback.

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An update to the tier list. I find it an interesting way to keep up on yusho predictions. First of all, Takakeisho stays on top with his win. Shodai moves down for his loss to Okinoumi. So does Mitakeumi. Terunofuji does not move up for his win, nor does Takayasu. Defeating Endo or Aoiyama is far from a spectacular feat from two former Ozeki. Onosho goes down, however. I'd like to move Asanoyama up for his win, but he should be performing better than this. Chiyotairyu is moving down as his start is now seeming like a lucky beginning. Ichinojo goes down as well. Given his reputation i'd move him down two slots the list. It seems like one of "those basho" The remaining Tier 5 rikishi shall not be moved. Except Endo, he's being replaced by Takarafuji.

Tier 1: Takakeisho
Tier 2: Shodai, Terunofuji, Takayasu

Tier 3: Asanoyama, Mitakeumi, Kiribayama, Onosho

Tier 4: Tobizaru, Kotoshoho, Takanosho, Chiyotairyu

Tier 5: Kagayaki, Takarafuji, Wakatakakage

Mere Fodder: Endo, Tamawashi, Myogiryu, Tochinoshin, Ryuden, Aoiyama, Kotoeko, Meisei, Shimanoumi, Hoshoryu, Ichinojo

 

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Tobizaru, Asanoyama, Terunofuji, well anyone can root for them.

My personal favorite is Hattorizakura (Jonidan 32w). When I was 22 I didn't know anything about Sumo but wanted to be a ring announcer at US Pro Wrestling because I was too small to wrestle. 5'11, 140 lbs. Now I find the man  who is living my dream (probably better than I would have). Room and board and a fighting slot in the biggest and most important Sumo Stadium there is.

3-197 with a 65 match losing streak. 

Much better than what I was doing at 22. (taking tickets at a soft core porn theater and tending bar)

Here is the opening match (the real opening match), of this Basho. Note: this is his 63 consecutive loss. Sorry for the duplication for those who have already seen it.

I love this guy.

https://twitter.com/i/status/1304931898121019392

 

 

 

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Ichinojo and Enho for day 9.  :-)  Will Ichinojo go for a henka?

Edited by Asojima

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8 hours ago, Amamaniac said:

 

I'm not familiar with "Nishikigi's Cinderella story", but he is on track to outdo Tochinoshin's dramatic comeback from injury.

 

5 hours ago, Eikokurai said:

Are you confusing him for Ryuden, Tochinoshin, Ura or maybe Chiyonokuni? I don’t recall Nishikigi having a comeback.

Naah I was just talking nonsense :-D It's that few basho run in the joi by Nishikigi some time ago, getting gin/kinboshi in the process. Nowhere comparable to Terunofuji's comeback story (even so far).

 

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If Shohozan ends up 0-12, someone needs to henka him like he did to Onosho last time.

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Poor Shohozan. What's up with him? He doesn't seem injured. And i think he isn't the type to just give up.

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That bout between Hoshoryu and Kotoshogiku is the most gentle sumo I've ever seen. It's almost as if they were dancing.

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