Kintamayama

September (Aki) Basho- offical thread (yay..)

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1 hour ago, pricklypomegranate said:

There is quite a dilemma. His new sumo style just doesn't seem successful, but his old style might have been "figured out" as some people have pointed out. 

In the sports world the best players don't usually make the best coaches. The curse might well continue. Do you think Hak is a good coach, or just a good scouter or currently has too many responsibilities to deal with that side of himself? 

Sumo is unlike other sports in that Oyakata are exclusively successful rikishi by necessity,  that said I still think it's too early to tell with Hakuho. Early indications are good on his scouting, given the success Enho and Ishiura have had, but then there's Toma who is bordering on disappointment at this stage. Senho is mixed. Hokuseiho looks like one to watch certainly but way to early to tell.

Between the Hakuho Cup and his success, I expect Hakuho will have the benefit of sumo prodigy's wanting to work under him. Can he take them to the next level? I think probably. He seems quite caring/fatherly but also like he won't accept anything less than his deshi's absolute best. I think/hope he'll ride that line well.

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In makushita and below, rikishi show up on 7 of the basho days.  The chances of 2 rikishi seeing or even knowing each are very small.  It is a rare thing for the two to have ever fought against each other more than once.  These guys do not participate in jungyo or degeiko.  At this level, almost all training is for offensive sumo. 
The sekitori show up for 15 days, and they commonly meet or at least watch each other's  matches.  They often meet and observe each other in action during jungyo and at degeiko.  The upper divisions add defensive tactics to their training regimen.  These guys get very familiar with the abilities of the other guys. 
When new guys with unusual abilities and tactics show up in juryo, they are essentially unknowns, and they often do well UNTIL they become known commodities.  Their tactics become known, and the other guys learn how to counter the new guys strengths and take advantage of their weaknesses.  Jungyo and degeiko present many  opportunities for meetings and observations. Familiarity becomes a bitch.  If the new guy relies only on the strengths that got him there, he will in relatively short order become a very welcome opponent or damaged merchandise. 
The young guys are fun to  watch, but don't expect them to last long if they do not adapt to reality.

Edited by Asojima
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56 minutes ago, Asojima said:

In makushita and below, rikishi show up on 8 of the basho days.

8? Am I missing something?

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Is there a precedent for the sanyaku gyoji to be on "probation" for tate-gyoji by doing the kaobure? It appears weird that Inosuke is well enough to judge but not to do the kaobure.

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I just saw ex-Terao in an interview. Some thing is definitely wrong with him. He looked very ill and spoke slowly with a lot of lapses. Very worrying.

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24 minutes ago, Akinomaki said:

Onosho still on track for the yusho

I was just thinking, this guy started out 0-13 last time. Could he start 13-0 this time and claim the yusho?

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2 hours ago, Jakusotsu said:

8? Am I missing something?

Some rikishi fight an extra 8th bout. Possibly that’s what being referred to here. Of course, non-sekitori are there every day pretty much, barring maybe the last 2-3 when they’re done. There are too many of them to fit all their bouts in on the same days so there are generally always lower division bouts.

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Another gyoji-related anomaly: today, Kimura Ginjiro officiated over the final bouts in the Juryo Division.  Normally, Juryo/Makuuchi-level gyoji officiate over only two bouts (and the torikumi assignments only cut one bout from gyoji if they officiate the first bout in the Top Division when there are an uneven number of bouts scheduled).  

Anyone know why Ginjiro ended up with "three" bouts?

And to rub salt into Ginjiro's wounds, the PA failed to even mention his name!

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5 minutes ago, Eikokurai said:

Some rikishi fight an extra 8th bout. Possibly that’s what being referred to here. Of course, non-sekitori are there every day pretty much, barring maybe the last 2-3 when they’re done. There are too many of them to fit all their bouts in on the same days so there are generally always lower division bouts.

If a rikishi in the lower divisions fight an "extra 8th bout", how does that affect his promotion, especially if he ends up with a 4-4 record?  Are there examples of this in the database. (Sorry, not database savvy.)

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1 minute ago, Amamaniac said:

If a rikishi in the lower divisions fight an "extra 8th bout", how does that affect his promotion, especially if he ends up with a 4-4 record?  Are there examples of this in the database. (Sorry, not database savvy.)

Basic rule: A win improves your chances to climb higher, a loss doesn't do any harm (so a 4-4 is still technically a 4-3). This is what I learned in the past.

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3 minutes ago, Amamaniac said:

If a rikishi in the lower divisions fight an "extra 8th bout", how does that affect his promotion, especially if he ends up with a 4-4 record?  Are there examples of this in the database. (Sorry, not database savvy.)

If I recall correctly, one of the more recent and anomalous examples was Hattorizakura, who was asked to do 2 extra bouts in the same basho for people doing the Ryuden. Of course, in his case, it doesn't matter.

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I am glad that Asanoyama had his first win, but damn, the way Hokutofuji just landed with a loud thud is really frightening. 

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4 minutes ago, pricklypomegranate said:

I am glad that Asanoyama had his first win, but damn, the way Hokutofuji just landed with a loud thud is really frightening. 

Then I hope you didn't see the really bad injury Takayasu suffered against Kakuryu during Haru. Not only did it hurt bad enough for Takayasu to cry mama on the dohyo, there was no audience chatter to drown anything out, so you heard everything in full HD.

Edited by Seiyashi
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3 minutes ago, Amamaniac said:

If a rikishi in the lower divisions fight an "extra 8th bout", how does that affect his promotion, especially if he ends up with a 4-4 record?  Are there examples of this in the database. (Sorry, not database savvy.)

It’s my understanding that if they win, it counts; if they lose, it doesn’t. Thus the eighth bout is something of a bonus.

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1 hour ago, Eikokurai said:

I was just thinking, this guy started out 0-13 last time. Could he start 13-0 this time and claim the yusho?

My saying

On 14/09/2020 at 13:53, Akinomaki said:

After the persistence to go on like he started, I opt for a yusho by Onosho - with a chance by Shodai and Mitakeumi to force a playoff.

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2 hours ago, Amamaniac said:

Another gyoji-related anomaly: today, Kimura Ginjiro officiated over the final bouts in the Juryo Division.  Normally, Juryo/Makuuchi-level gyoji officiate over only two bouts (and the torikumi assignments only cut one bout from gyoji if they officiate the first bout in the Top Division when there are an uneven number of bouts scheduled).  

Anyone know why Ginjiro ended up with "three" bouts?

And to rub salt into Ginjiro's wounds, the PA failed to even mention his name!

Ginjiro started one bout earlier than scheduled, and was mentioned then by the hall announcement. Kimura Yonosuke only did one bout and was called off (apparently by Ginjiro), seemed to be something about his attire: he was fixing his tabi or the like while he sat at the dohyo then.

Edited by Akinomaki
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Interesting watching the older (ie over 30) guys recently. Okinoumi, Myogiryu and Tamawashi look to be having a late career flourish, the Geek seemed (until yesterday) to have worked out how to adapt his sumo to deal with his declining power, Takarafuji seems to be just doing what he has always done. But it seems like the end is very nigh for Shohozan, and poor Tochinoshin looks completely shot and unable to do anything like the sumo he has always relied on (ie power, power, power), leaving him without many options. I know he went 10-5 last basho but, he is clearly in steep decline since he lost the Ozeki rank.

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Very unusual unbeaten cast list. Can't see it staying that way for Onosho or Tobizaru, but it'll be interesting to see how long they can keep it going. 

Takakeisho and Shodai are starting to look like yusho prospects, but so much can and will change before the end.

Mitakeumi doing his usual thing when there's any talk of a possible ozeki run...

Glad to see Asanoyama record a shiroboshi. He's not out of it yet if he can win out from here. Hokutofuji's fall (or rather the abrupt impact at the end of it) must've hurt, though!

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Mitakeumi will be facing Terutsuyoshi tomorrow. The last time they've met was . . . in his debut basho five years ago!

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Kyokutaisei injured his left foot/surroundings in the bout against Shimanoumi, he was shown limping out after the bout

sum20091620480011-m1.jpgo

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6 hours ago, pricklypomegranate said:

I am glad that Asanoyama had his first win, but damn, the way Hokutofuji just landed with a loud thud is really frightening. 

That last shove was "in the flow", but really sent Hokutofuji flying. If it had been Hakuho who had done that, there'd be cats on here rage-posting about it. (Laughing...)

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Couple years ago I might have said, "There's no way either Onosho or Tobizaru will be the one to take this" and I still feel like that's probably true, but after all this crazy **** we've seen, I don't feel comfortable making blanket statements like that anymore. I think this is going to be a tense yusho race that keeps us guessing til the last minute.

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2 hours ago, CT3* said:

That last shove was "in the flow", but really sent Hokutofuji flying. If it had been Hakuho who had done that, there'd be cats on here rage-posting about it. (Laughing...)

I don't think Hakuho's ever started out 0-3. Asanoyama was probably releasing some built-up tension/frustration.

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9 hours ago, pricklypomegranate said:

I am glad that Asanoyama had his first win, but damn, the way Hokutofuji just landed with a loud thud is really frightening. 

God yeah at first I thought he fell on his neck, it looked brutal. 

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