Kintamayama

September (Aki) Basho- offical thread (yay..)

Recommended Posts

Asanoyama 0-3 and Tobizaru 3-0. Betting on that before the basho would have broken any broker.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I have no doubt that Enho's problem lately is purely down to a massive clamp down he's had on his tachiai postures. There's been plenty more matta on his bouts than before since halfway through July's basho so there's his tachiai unpredictability gone.

Not sure why they've started doing it though - have they had enough of the novelty?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 minutes ago, Koorifuu said:

I have no doubt that Enho's problem lately is purely down to a massive clamp down he's had on his tachiai postures. There's been plenty more matta on his bouts than before since halfway through July's basho so there's his tachiai unpredictability gone.

Not sure why they've started doing it though - have they had enough of the novelty?

Don't think it's purely down to that though. Nothing's stopping his pop tachiai where he barely moves forward at all, so why is that completely unseen? He's just barging head first into every opponent, and when you're that size, that's not a tactic that's going to work.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Whatever has happened to Shodai? He has been a good wrestler for a long time, but has lacked the edge needed to win consistently. In this basho he suddenly acts like a force of nature and crushes top rankers without mercy. The way he easily dispatched Endo today was a surprise to me. Endo is tricky and almost always puts up a good fight, but he had nothing today.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Looked to me like Mitakeumi and Takakeisho were up late last night, studying the Kakuryu Book Of How To Lose By Pulling.

I've not heard of any Asanoyama injury to account for his 0-3 start. Is he suffering from the degeiko ban, or is he collapsing under the weight of expectation? Looks like he's lost the ball, never mind dropped it. No rope this year.

Shodai is looking like the man at the moment, but I've got a feeling that the Wacky Aki we've joked about here for a couple of years might be taking root as a tradition. A 12-3 or even 11-4 yusho feels more likely to me than a zensho, so it's still anybody's really.

Enho... Novelty tends to be fun and interesting, but it's always short-lived. It's Tobizaru's turn now.

---

Kotoshogiku. The Geek. Old Bumpety-Bumpety. Breaker of the Drought. One of my favourites. I wondered at the significance of no strapping on his knees for the first time I can remember, hot on the heels of his radically changed tachi-ai last time. We may see him back before the end of the basho, but I don't believe he intends to compete in juryo.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Edit: Double post. Damn that posting-to-a-new-page glitch!

Edited by RabidJohn

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I have to admit I've criminally underrated Tobizaru. Thought for sure he was going to MK this basho. 
The spirit and technique he is showing is just stunning. Keep it up Flying Monkey!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The last few Makuuchi debutants since Kiribayama have all done very well for themselves, but going by their performances in Juryo, you'd think they were not that much to write home about. Is it just the keenness of wanting to prove yourself in the big time, or is it that the lower echelons of Makuuchi are getting more and more depleted by the day?

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Seiyashi said:

The last few Makuuchi debutants since Kiribayama have all done very well for themselves, but going by their performances in Juryo, you'd think they were not that much to write home about. Is it just the keenness of wanting to prove yourself in the big time, or is it that the lower echelons of Makuuchi are getting more and more depleted by the day?

Happens often enough that I reckon the lower echelons of makuuchi are possibly a slightly lower standard than the upper echelons of juryo. Maybe a result of under-demotion happening more often than over-promotion? But that's a subjective view not backed up by any statistics I know of.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
14 minutes ago, RabidJohn said:

Maybe a result of under-demotion happening more often than over-promotion?

I think Nishikigi says hi.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On ‎13‎/‎09‎/‎2020 at 13:19, Amamaniac said:
On ‎13‎/‎09‎/‎2020 at 13:02, Eikokurai said:

Asanoyama-Endo was a great fight. Asa had Endo but that was a great kakenage at the end, inexplicably called a sukuinage (surely the leg hook was key to that move?)

Absolutely agree with you on that one.  I was thinking the same thing.  Perhaps sukuinage was called since it was a belt-less throw, whereas a kakenage may require a hand on the opponent's belt.  Maybe Yubinhaad will weigh in on that decision...


I suspect it's because the sukuinage had already been going on for some time and the kimarite-gakari on duty didn't think the leg lift had enough impact to call it as a kakenage. I don't think a mawashi grip has any bearing on it, you can see in this bout from yesterday that Keitenkai also employs a leg lift, but again his initial throw was already under way, so it gets called as a shitatenage.

 

  • Thanks 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
50 minutes ago, RabidJohn said:

Happens often enough that I reckon the lower echelons of makuuchi are possibly a slightly lower standard than the upper echelons of juryo. Maybe a result of under-demotion happening more often than over-promotion? But that's a subjective view not backed up by any statistics I know of.

This sounds like it might be right, but it's hard to one's finger on a definite principle.  If lower Makuuchi were "stable", you'd have almost no newcomers from Juryo.  Assuming a consistent loss of rikishi from ranks M11-M17, say, they could leave by going up or going down.  But the ones going up are replaced by upper-rankers falling, so there's no effect on Juryo; it's the ones headed down that are replaced by those rising from Juryo (I know, not Einstein-level stuff here!).  However, if the risers from Juryo are the same recycled names that bounce up and down again and again, they will not have great records in Makuuchi – they've simply proven that there natural level is around the bottom of Makuuchi.  It's the young fast-rising rikishi who rose quickly through Juryo who should do well in Makuuchi – they haven't hit their natural level yet, and that level is above the journeyman at the bottom of Makuuchi.  They also don't have a track record to game-plan against like the "recycled guys" do.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It might be worth noting that day 3's Top Division bouts started and ended with grudge matches.  

Kyokutaisei secured sweet revenge against Hoshoryu, after the latter dashed his Juryo yusho hopes in the July Tournament.  Asanoyama, on the other hand, failed to get his revenge against Terunofuji who had dashed his Top Division yusho hopes in July.  But there was more than revenge on tap in this final bout.  Both men were trying to prove that they deserved to be near the top of the banzuke.  Frankly speaking, both men are off to a dismal start this tournament, and so Terunofuji defeating a deflated Asanoyama may not be enough proof of his readiness to remain in the joi ranks...  But an Ozeki scalp is an Ozeki scalp.

Early days, I say.  But keep in mind that last time around, both men started with consecutive wins (Asanoyama 9 straight and Terunofuji 4 straight).  This time, Asa has 3 straight losses, and Teru barely managed to hold his losing streak to two.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

with that tachiai

4.jpgo

and with that belly

4.jpgo

Enho is not makuuchi material anymore

  • Thanks 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Oddly enough that tachiai reminds me of what - if I remember correctly - Endo did against Hakuho. Except I don't think you need to guard against a kachiage from anyone but Hakuho...

Edited by Seiyashi

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
24 minutes ago, Akinomaki said:

Enho is not makuuchi material anymore

Could be that he's just having a rather dry spell with all the factors attacking him, but I think that his lack of weight is more likely. I think he's sufficiently proven his technical prowess as a light rikishi now and don't really understand the earlier arguments that he would be slower if heavier (he is slow NOW, and see Terutsuyoshi, who still has decent speed). I think Enho's gotta drop that feather-light novelty and gain at least 10 - 20kg to have any substantial success. Hakuho please advise. Do you guys think the weight would make a difference? 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
58 minutes ago, Akinomaki said:

 

and with that belly

4.jpgo

Enho is not makuuchi material anymore

This is maybe my first time seeing rikishi ribs (Blinking...)

Someone had said already that Terunofuji has achieved his dream of a comeback (with yusho on top of that), so he doesn't have much motivation this basho. I agree and I think it's good for him (his knees) to not shoot up too fast. But definitely his skills are still up there.

Now can Myogiryu achieve a sanyaku comeback like Okinoumi (who's probably going down)?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I remember reading somewhere that Enho has great difficulties gaining weight. He literally eats himself nauseous, but still can not gain weight. He is now down on 92 kg. I think he weighed in on 99 a couple of tournaments ago. The fighters now all know that he has no defence against a careful straight push out. He is just to light weight. As long as they don't let him slip in under them or to the side of them, there is precious little he can do to defend against a cautious push out attack.

I wish I shared Enho's weight gaining problem :-)

Edited by Orudo Toriitorunku
  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
30 minutes ago, Orudo Toriitorunku said:

I wish I shared Enho's weight gaining problem :-)

Train 3h a day like Enho does and trust me you'll probably have the same problem ;)

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
11 hours ago, Orudo Toriitorunku said:

Whatever has happened to Shodai? He has been a good wrestler for a long time, but has lacked the edge needed to win consistently. In this basho he suddenly acts like a force of nature and crushes top rankers without mercy. The way he easily dispatched Endo today was a surprise to me. Endo is tricky and almost always puts up a good fight, but he had nothing today.

Looking at his recent performances, it seems he flipped a switch last November, when he went 11-4 and picked up the jun-yusho, and has been a new rikishi ever since. His issue has always been his tachi-ai, and he has clearly improved that area thanks to noticeable added strength.

He's always had Ozeki potential, and he finally seems to be on the verge of realizing it. 

Edited by Kaninoyama
  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
10 hours ago, Hakuryuho said:

I have to admit I've criminally underrated Tobizaru. Thought for sure he was going to MK this basho. 
The spirit and technique he is showing is just stunning. Keep it up Flying Monkey!

His interview on Day 1 after picking up his Makuuchi debut win was a joy to watch. He was completely unable to contain his excitement. He says he aspires to wrestle like Yoshikaze. Add the fact that he's eager to learn English so he can communicate with foreign fans, and he's someone who will be very easy to root for. 

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 hours ago, pricklypomegranate said:

Could be that he's just having a rather dry spell with all the factors attacking him, but I think that his lack of weight is more likely. I think he's sufficiently proven his technical prowess as a light rikishi now and don't really understand the earlier arguments that he would be slower if heavier (he is slow NOW, and see Terutsuyoshi, who still has decent speed). I think Enho's gotta drop that feather-light novelty and gain at least 10 - 20kg to have any substantial success. Hakuho please advise. Do you guys think the weight would make a difference? 

Interestingly, prior to the basho he said that last tourney he had been fighting too light and that this basho, he wanted to fight "heavy." He seems hell bent on doing just that, trying to meet opponents far heavier than him head on. It's not working.

He'll never be able to match his peers in size, even with added weight, so one would think he should go back to doing what got him to where he is in the first place. 

Edited by Kaninoyama

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
33 minutes ago, Kaninoyama said:

Interestingly, prior to the basho he said that last tourney he had been fighting too light and that this basho, he wasn't to fight "heavy." He seems hell bent on doing just that, trying to meet opponents far heavier than him head on. It's not working.

He'll never be able to match his peers in size, even with added weight, so one would think he should go back to doing what got him to where he is in the first place. 

Out of reacts but agreed. It seems he's given in to the pressure of those calling on him to do "traditional" sumo (which is ridiculous when he is physically anything but). I wonder whether this view is being reinforced by coach Hak.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, Kaninoyama said:

He'll never be able to match his peers in size, even with added weight, so one would think he should go back to doing what got him to where he is in the first place. 

There is quite a dilemma. His new sumo style just doesn't seem successful, but his old style might have been "figured out" as some people have pointed out. 

4 hours ago, Houmanumi said:

I wonder whether this view is being reinforced by coach Hak.

In the sports world the best players don't usually make the best coaches. The curse might well continue. Do you think Hak is a good coach, or just a good scouter or currently has too many responsibilities to deal with that side of himself? 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 hours ago, Kaninoyama said:

His interview on Day 1 after picking up his Makuuchi debut win was a joy to watch. He was completely unable to contain his excitement. He says he aspires to wrestle like Yoshikaze. Add the fact that he's eager to learn English so he can communicate with foreign fans, and he's someone who will be very easy to root for. 

Very interesting about Tobizaru wanting to speak English to communicate with foreign fans. Last January outside the Kokugikan one day during hatsu, Tobizaru was sitting at a table beside one of the food trucks that park outside near the Abema TV tent where I was hanging out. I noticed he was looking at me rather intently, and I got the sense he was almost expecting me to approach him to ask for a photo or autograph. This was uncanny, as in my experience most Japanese rikishi tend to be quite reticent and make only fleeting eye contact—or avoid eye contact altogether—during brief encounters with fans who they presume (correctly, in my case) do not speak Japanese. Now I have reason to believe I wasn’t just imagining it. He certainly projected being approachable. Next time, I’ll definitely speak to him in English and get that photo.

Edited by since_94
  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now