Kintamayama

September (Aki) Basho- offical thread (yay..)

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If Ichinojo didn't chase Enho around, he could have a better chance to beat him.  (Sigh...)   A good win by Enho!

A two-feat is still in the works by Terunofuji who took care of Hokutofuji today.  He has won 7 in a row after starting the basho with 2 losses.  The remaining schedule favors him as he already faced all the Sanyuku members.  I am hoping for Takakeisho vs Terunofuji playoff.

  

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11 minutes ago, robnplunder said:

The remaining schedule favors him as he already faced all the Sanyuku members.  I am hoping for Takakeisho vs Terunofuji playoff.

Doubt Takakeisho is going to maintain a perfect record from here out though. 

Tomorrow is the day of eternal sadness - Ishiura against Kotoshogiku, and Enho against Shohozan. 

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My prediction pick, Shodai, is still in the hunt.  It took two tries against Daieisho but he improves to 7-2, maintaining his co-lead.   There are now 6 at the top, all of them looking to be in good form.  Among the ones chasing the leaders,  I can't overlook Takayasu who appears to be healthy and Asanoyama who is back from the dead.  

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3 hours ago, hakutorizakura said:

Considering how unappealing it is for shinpans to get up for monoii from their comfortable seating position and the frequency of matta, probably that's not gonna work (not to mention that they would have to announce what they discussed during monoii, ooooh how dreadful) (Laughing...)

There’s nothing comfortable about sitting cross-legged without back support for any length of time, especially for men of a certain age. If I was a shimpan, I’d call mono-ii all the time just to stretch my legs.

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1 minute ago, Eikokurai said:

There’s nothing comfortable about sitting cross-legged without back support for any length of time, especially for men of a certain age. If I was a shimpan, I’d call mono-ii all the time just to stretch my legs.

Please have one of these (Laughing...) in lieu of a react, as I am once again out of them today.

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4 hours ago, Hakuryuho said:

18 year old 2m giant Hokuseiho of Myagino stable (Hakuho recruited him) is also 5-0 in Jonidan (as Jd14W), with Maezumo he is on a 14-0 run!
He is looking really good, very agile for his size and of course very strong, not showing many weaknesses so far!

Shishi, the Ukrainian, is also 5-0 in Jonidan as Jd47W!

If they keep winning we'll get a showdown and we'll see what happens when Hokuseiho picks on someone (almost) his own size. Throw Nabatame (18, 5-0, Jd5) into the mix and we have a cracking jonidan yusho race.

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9 hours ago, sekitori said:

If a rikishi refuses to get both hands down and is the cause of more than one matta, there could be a more drastic solution--disqualify him for that match. The idea of losing a bout for not following the rules can be a pretty good incentive to obey them. If there is disagreement among the shimpan with the gyoji's decision to disqualify, a mono-ii could be held to settle the situation.

Interesting suggestion.  I still think that "both wrestlers fists down and gyoji signalling the start" would avoid the need for officials having to decide who to punish...

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6 minutes ago, Tigerboy1966 said:

If they keep winning we'll get a showdown and we'll see what happens when Hokuseiho picks on someone (almost) his own size. Throw Nabatame (18, 5-0, Jd5) into the mix and we have a cracking jonidan yusho race.

And the other 5-0 in the Jonidan race worth watching out for is Naruto's Hagiwara. The four of them, and the other 2 5-0 in Jonidan, all fought today, and it is likely that some of them will be fighting each other when their Jonidan action resumes on day 11.

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1 hour ago, Seiyashi said:

And the other 5-0 in the Jonidan race worth watching out for is Naruto's Hagiwara.

I'm never sure how they work these things out but given the numbers and stables involved I wave a feeling that Hagiwara is going to have to come through an inter-divisional match against the grizzled vet Hisanatora who has been cleaning house in jonokuchi (exactly what you'd expect from a man who was in makushita just over a year ago).

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6 minutes ago, Tigerboy1966 said:

I'm never sure how they work these things out but given the numbers and stables involved I wave a feeling that Hagiwara is going to have to come through an inter-divisional match against the grizzled vet Hisanatora who has been cleaning house in jonokuchi (exactly what you'd expect from a man who was in makushita just over a year ago).

Only if, amongst the 3 likely 5-0 matchups on day 11, both the Naruto-beya men win. Once one of them loses, it's clear sailing from there. In any case, Jonokuchi is the only division with an odd number of perfect scores at the moment, so likely one of the Jk 5-0s will fight a 4-1.

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7 hours ago, Seiyashi said:

Doubt Takakeisho is going to maintain a perfect record from here out though. 

Tomorrow is the day of eternal sadness - Ishiura against Kotoshogiku, and Enho against Shohozan. 

I saw that, too, with much trepidation.  As Tolkien would say, Nírnaeth Arnoediad, the Battle of Unnumbered Tears.

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12 minutes ago, Yamanashi said:

As Tolkien would say, Nírnaeth Arnoediad, the Battle of Unnumbered Tears.

At the risk of resorting to a crass reference, I see you are a person of culture as well.

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On 20/09/2020 at 08:50, Amamaniac said:

I've heard of that policy, but I am not sure how it can be enforced fairly.  Problems:

(1) lower division wrestlers don't get a salary to speak of, and can hardly afford fines.

(2) as pointed out by @maorencze, gyoji are sometimes strict and sometimes not.

(3) wrestlers can be psyched into doing a matta, and so who is really to blame? 

Anyone know if fines are still in use?

 

It never applied to the lower divisions, I think it was just makuuchi but it might have been juryo too.

They initially solved the problem of who was really to blame by fining BOTH rikishi, but after some complaints that it was unfair they changed it to only fine the rikishi who was called back.

It's no longer in use. 

Edited by ryafuji
typos
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8 hours ago, Hakuryuho said:

Terunofuji is not gonna lose another bout.

He will win the yusho, making it back-to-back emperors cups and an instant ozeki-promotion. You read it here first!

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9 hours ago, robnplunder said:

If Ichinojo didn't chase Enho around, he could have a better chance to beat him.  (Sigh...)   A good win by Enho!

Now that you mention it, perhaps the best strategy for Ichinojo was for him to stand in the middle of the ring and just swat at Enho like King Kong every time the latter tried to attack him.

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4 minutes ago, Amamaniac said:

Now that you mention it, perhaps the best strategy for Ichinojo was for him to stand in the middle of the ring and just swat at Enho like King Kong every time the latter tried to attack him.

Enho's obvious counter-strategy would be to attack from behind and from the side until Ichinojo fell by dizzyotoshi....

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 No one has brought up the monoii called in Shodai's bout versus Daieisho.  I have some strong views about that one, but I don't want to create too much controversy here - hence the spoiler.  

Spoiler

In the Shodai versus Daieisho bout, it was quite clear to me that Shodai had won the first time around.  The replay showed that Shodai's foot was still firmly inside the ring when Daieisho's foot left the ground (飛んでる).  Apparently even the gyoji noticed that.  

But shimpancho, Isegahama, called a monoii review, and ruled for a torinaoshi.  I found that suspicious, because earlier in the day, shimpancho Fujishima ruled in favour of Hidenoumi citing that opponent Nishikifuji's foot left the ground first (which reversed the gyoji's gumbai call).  

So I asked myself, why hadn't the same principle been followed when it came to the Shodai v. Daieisho bout?  The only explanation I could think of is that Isegahama is using his influence on the Judges Committee to help his deshi, Terunofuji, win the championship.  

Calling for a torinaoshi meant that Shodai, who is a serious contender in this tournament, had to fight a second time, and could potentially have lost the bout...  It all worked out for Shodai in the end, but having to fight a torinaoshi during a honbasho has two significant effects: (1) the risk of losing after technically winning, and ... 2) being extra tired going into the next day's bout, not to mention the rest of the tournament, where stamina is critical.  

Of course I am a fan of Isegahama Stable, since that is Harumafuji's old stable.  But I am growing increasingly disturbed by what I see as bias in Isegahama's rulings ever since he was reinstated as shimpancho...

Does anyone else feel the same way, or am I simply imagining things?

 

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1 hour ago, ryafuji said:

It never applied to the lower divisions, I think it was just makuuchi but it might have been juryo too.

They initially solved the problem of who was really to blame by finding BOTH rikishi, but after some complaints that it was unfair they changed it to only fine the rikishi who was called back.

Its no longer in use. 

I'd be really interested in knowing when the "matta fine" system first came into effect, and when it was discarded.  Any pundits out there who know?

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19 minutes ago, Amamaniac said:

I'd be really interested in knowing when the "matta fine" system first came into effect, and when it was discarded.  Any pundits out there who know?

It was in late 1991 that it was introduced. I remember Musashimaru, who had just entered makuuchi at the time, saying he had to pay 100,000 yen.

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29 minutes ago, Amamaniac said:

I'd be really interested in knowing when the "matta fine" system first came into effect, and when it was discarded.  Any pundits out there who know?

In the 70's, it was rumored that a 4th matta could result in a disqualification.  I never saw a 4th one, but there was always a long discussion with the rikishi after a 3rd one.

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1 hour ago, Amamaniac said:

Now that you mention it, perhaps the best strategy for Ichinojo was for him to stand in the middle of the ring and just swat at Enho like King Kong every time the latter tried to attack him.

Exactly.  Lean forward and extend those giant arms toward the little dude (with a little bit of tongue in cheek).  When standing still, I don't think Enho can lift neither of Ichinojo's leg out of the ring.  But Enho did a nice job baiting Ichinojo to lumber forward.  A lucky win, IMO, for Enho.  

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20 minutes ago, robnplunder said:

Exactly.  Lean forward and extend those giant arms toward the little dude (with a little bit of tongue in cheek).  When standing still, I don't think Enho can lift neither of Ichinojo's leg out of the ring.  But Enho did a nice job baiting Ichinojo to lumber forward.  A lucky win, IMO, for Enho.  

Imagine Ichinojo spinning like a dreidel with his arms extended, he would be unstoppable.

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1 hour ago, Amamaniac said:

 No one has brought up the monoii called in Shodai's bout versus Daieisho.  I have some strong views about that one, but I don't want to create too much controversy here - hence the spoiler.  

  Reveal hidden contents

In the Shodai versus Daieisho bout, it was quite clear to me that Shodai had won the first time around.  The replay showed that Shodai's foot was still firmly inside the ring when Daieisho's foot left the ground (飛んでる).  Apparently even the gyoji noticed that.  

But shimpancho, Isegahama, called a monoii review, and ruled for a torinaoshi.  I found that suspicious, because earlier in the day, shimpancho Fujishima ruled in favour of Hidenoumi citing that opponent Nishikifuji's foot left the ground first (which reversed the gyoji's gumbai call).  

So I asked myself, why hadn't the same principle been followed when it came to the Shodai v. Daieisho bout?  The only explanation I could think of is that Isegahama is using his influence on the Judges Committee to help his deshi, Terunofuji, win the championship.  

Calling for a torinaoshi meant that Shodai, who is a serious contender in this tournament, had to fight a second time, and could potentially have lost the bout...  It all worked out for Shodai in the end, but having to fight a torinaoshi during a honbasho has two significant effects: (1) the risk of losing after technically winning, and ... 2) being extra tired going into the next day's bout, not to mention the rest of the tournament, where stamina is critical.  

Of course I am a fan of Isegahama Stable, since that is Harumafuji's old stable.  But I am growing increasingly disturbed by what I see as bias in Isegahama's rulings ever since he was reinstated as shimpancho...

Does anyone else feel the same way, or am I simply imagining things?

 

My initial impression was that the gyoji was correct, and it looks on the replay that Shodai did just stay in bounds, but it was marginal. I think a torinaoshi was a reasonable decision - nothing suspicious about it. 

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2 hours ago, Amamaniac said:

 No one has brought up the monoii called in Shodai's bout versus Daieisho.  I have some strong views about that one, but I don't want to create too much controversy here - hence the spoiler.  

  Hide contents

In the Shodai versus Daieisho bout, it was quite clear to me that Shodai had won the first time around.  The replay showed that Shodai's foot was still firmly inside the ring when Daieisho's foot left the ground (飛んでる).  Apparently even the gyoji noticed that.  

But shimpancho, Isegahama, called a monoii review, and ruled for a torinaoshi.  I found that suspicious, because earlier in the day, shimpancho Fujishima ruled in favour of Hidenoumi citing that opponent Nishikifuji's foot left the ground first (which reversed the gyoji's gumbai call).  

So I asked myself, why hadn't the same principle been followed when it came to the Shodai v. Daieisho bout?  The only explanation I could think of is that Isegahama is using his influence on the Judges Committee to help his deshi, Terunofuji, win the championship.  

Calling for a torinaoshi meant that Shodai, who is a serious contender in this tournament, had to fight a second time, and could potentially have lost the bout...  It all worked out for Shodai in the end, but having to fight a torinaoshi during a honbasho has two significant effects: (1) the risk of losing after technically winning, and ... 2) being extra tired going into the next day's bout, not to mention the rest of the tournament, where stamina is critical.  

Of course I am a fan of Isegahama Stable, since that is Harumafuji's old stable.  But I am growing increasingly disturbed by what I see as bias in Isegahama's rulings ever since he was reinstated as shimpancho...

Does anyone else feel the same way, or am I simply imagining things?

 

The foot inside the ring was OK; it was the foot outside the ring that was problematic.  It looked to me that Daieisho hit the ground at the same time that Shodai's foot crossed the plane of the dohyo -- that is, if there had been an extension of the dohyo, they would have hit ground together.  This is not the first time this has been rendered a torinaoshi, not by far.

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